Liverpool FC Forum

RED BEERGOGGLES » Mon Dec 16, 2013 3:27 pm wrote:Yesterday Liverpool denied Spurs the space to play their usual passing game ,and only afforded them room enough to make mistakes.
Henderson ,Lucas ,and Allen were the first to every ball and they showed a zeal that reflected the entire performance ....Rodgers is
an intelligent man ,and the way the team passed the ball so succinctly and effortlessly around the pitch will not have gone unnoticed.

Liverpool looked as good as they did in the latter half of last season when they opened teams up with such contemptible ease,they
bullied the fuck  out of that Spurs side Boas sent out ,the same side that were hardly quiet in their public boasts of superiority
before the game .

Walker and co left that field demoralised ,you could see it on their respective faces,we played football that they couldn't live with ,we
had players they couldn't handle ,and practically every player was in tune with each other and driven towards achieving the one primary
objective .....To win and win convincingly.

Marker laid ,and long may that kind of pride and fight for the shirt continue 

YNWA

sounds just about right to me.....

We played really well yesterday but I can't really disagree with Stu there. We didn't make Spurs look Sh*t, they were Sh*t by themselves, it was obvious from the very start.

Had to laugh at their defense. With Capoue and Naughton in there, their defense was a joke and poor Dawson had no other option but to watch the whole mess.

Their midfield was absolutely horrible as well. We did force a lot of mistakes from them and didn't let them breathe with our pressing, I'm not taking that away from us, but quite honestly, Spurs couldn't even string the simplest of passes.

When the ball actually reached their attack, they either skyed it to row Z or got blocked by our beast in defense.

Now I'm not taking anything away from us for this game. It was probably the most important game of the year and we were very good. But Tottenham really helped us score those 5 goals with that sad excuse of a performance by their players. With that kind of a performance, they would have probably been beaten by any Prem team or even lower. I'm actually surprised that they're this high on the table.

damjan193 » Mon Dec 16, 2013 3:44 pm wrote:We played really well yesterday but I can't really disagree with Stu there. We didn't make Spurs look Sh*t, they were Sh*t by themselves, it was obvious from the very start.

Had to laugh at their defense. With Capoue and Naughton in there, their defense was a joke and poor Dawson had no other option but to watch the whole mess.

Their midfield was absolutely horrible as well. We did force a lot of mistakes from them and didn't let them breathe with our pressing, I'm not taking that away from us, but quite honestly, Spurs couldn't even string the simplest of passes.

When the ball actually reached their attack, they either skyed it to row Z or got blocked by our beast in defense.

Now I'm not taking anything away from us for this game. It was probably the most important game of the year and we were very good. But Tottenham really helped us score those 5 goals with that sad excuse of a performance by their players. With that kind of a performance, they would have probably been beaten by any Prem team or even lower. I'm actually surprised that they're this high on the table.

when you apply pressure to teams (especially high up the pitch) you make them look ordinary, look at arsenal the other day against everton, the likes of ozil, ramsey and cazorla are great going forward but when you force them onto the back foot and make them defend they struggle like f##k.

ycsatbjywtbiastkamb » Mon Dec 16, 2013 4:08 pm wrote:

damjan193 » Mon Dec 16, 2013 3:44 pm wrote:We played really well yesterday but I can't really disagree with Stu there. We didn't make Spurs look Sh*t, they were Sh*t by themselves, it was obvious from the very start.

Had to laugh at their defense. With Capoue and Naughton in there, their defense was a joke and poor Dawson had no other option but to watch the whole mess.

Their midfield was absolutely horrible as well. We did force a lot of mistakes from them and didn't let them breathe with our pressing, I'm not taking that away from us, but quite honestly, Spurs couldn't even string the simplest of passes.

When the ball actually reached their attack, they either skyed it to row Z or got blocked by our beast in defense.

Now I'm not taking anything away from us for this game. It was probably the most important game of the year and we were very good. But Tottenham really helped us score those 5 goals with that sad excuse of a performance by their players. With that kind of a performance, they would have probably been beaten by any Prem team or even lower. I'm actually surprised that they're this high on the table.

when you apply pressure to teams (especially high up the pitch) you make them look ordinary, look at arsenal the other day against everton, the likes of ozil, ramsey and cazorla are great going forward but when you force them onto the back foot and make them defend they struggle like f##k.

Agree with that. Yesterday was the polar opposite of our display at The Emirates when we just sat off them and didn't press at all. When we play at a high intensity we look so much better. If we take the same application to Man City and Chelsea we'll give both of them a hell of a game.

stmichael

Agree with that. Yesterday was the polar opposite of our display at The Emirates when we just sat off them and didn't press at all. When we play at a high intensity we look so much better. If we take the same application to Man City and Chelsea we'll give both of them a hell of a game.

when it`s done well a high intensity pressing game is very hard to play against, if you remember not that long ago saint we had a very good record at home against man united which was built on a swarming defence, after a few defeats here ferguson eventually opted to load his team with grafters in order to scrape a draw and in his after match interview when quizzed about his `negative` line up ferguson said he needed to pick that particular side in order to combat our pressing game and stop the run of defeats at anfield.
so even the best teams and managers struggle to cope with a well executed high intensity pressing game
the downside to the pressing game though is if you have 2 or 3 players that dont work their @rses off then the opposition always have an out ball and the press fails, and when a press fails high up the pitch you find yourself short of numbers at the back which is what happened to us early last season.
the other danger is that your players run out of steam in the last 15 minutes because it does take a hell of a lot of effort to press for 90 mins.
but when it`s done well as i said even the best teams can be pressurized into mistakes and become rattled.

ycsatbjywtbiastkamb » Mon Dec 16, 2013 5:08 pm wrote:

damjan193 » Mon Dec 16, 2013 3:44 pm wrote:We played really well yesterday but I can't really disagree with Stu there. We didn't make Spurs look Sh*t, they were Sh*t by themselves, it was obvious from the very start.

Had to laugh at their defense. With Capoue and Naughton in there, their defense was a joke and poor Dawson had no other option but to watch the whole mess.

Their midfield was absolutely horrible as well. We did force a lot of mistakes from them and didn't let them breathe with our pressing, I'm not taking that away from us, but quite honestly, Spurs couldn't even string the simplest of passes.

When the ball actually reached their attack, they either skyed it to row Z or got blocked by our beast in defense.

Now I'm not taking anything away from us for this game. It was probably the most important game of the year and we were very good. But Tottenham really helped us score those 5 goals with that sad excuse of a performance by their players. With that kind of a performance, they would have probably been beaten by any Prem team or even lower. I'm actually surprised that they're this high on the table.

when you apply pressure to teams (especially high up the pitch) you make them look ordinary, look at arsenal the other day against everton, the likes of ozil, ramsey and cazorla are great going forward but when you force them onto the back foot and make them defend they struggle like f##k.

Great example.

Totally correct, Arsenal struggled against Everton's pressing. The difference is Arsenal pressed and put up a fight themselves. Spurs simply rolled over and lets us shove one up their backside.

We pressed absolutely superbly well as a unit, I'm not denying that at all. But to suggest that was the sole purpose for Spurs performance is extremely misguided and naive. Spurs were terrible, we done our job superbly, hence it could have been eight instead of the five we got.

My point is not to get carried away and not let it mask our glaring deficiencies in certain area's of the pitch. The point being, if we can address the weakness, then performances of that ilk will start to become normal and we'll be a much better side for it!

High Pressing, Break-up Plays & Defending by Our Midfield & Attack vs Spurs.

http://www.veoh.com/watch/v65292524HGWwTYXh

stmichael » Tue Dec 17, 2013 12:08 pm wrote:High Pressing, Break-up Plays & Defending by Our Midfield & Attack vs Spurs.

http://www.veoh.com/watch/v65292524HGWwTYXh

that has to be the blueprint from now on, that agressive defensive stragedy of rodgers`s when carried out to perfection like on sunday is actually a form of attack.
it puts real pressure on teams even though they have the ball
i`d love us to do that, and be that effective, week in week out but i suspect sunday was one of those lucky days when all the planets were in alignment or something, but from now on we should at least be attempting to get close to that defensive performance every time we take to the field.

The performance over the weekend shouldn't hide the concerns in midfield. We still need 1 more quality central midfielder. And I'm also of the impression that if Gerrard had played, the high pressing game that was on show would be significantly different because Gerrard doesn't have the tactical discipline. He's the best midfielder we have in terms of ability but he's not as hardworking as Allen and Henderson who gave the opposition no time to think. The moment they got the ball, Henderson and Allen would be onto them causing panic and forcing them into either losing the ball or making passes which usually do not reach the expected target.

Gerrard doesn't do that. Many times this and last season I've seen him lose the ball and not been bothered to chase it back, almost complacent or nonchalant. The Cazorla one is most vivid. Some may say that that's because he no longer has the legs but then if that's the case, the team should no longer be revolved around him especially if BR's blueprint for the team is best executed on match-days where he isn't involved. Gerrard is starting to be a liability in that sense as it seems to be the case that the approach in games are change to accommodate him.

A good player nonetheless, but more of a luxury player these days. I would really like to see Suso come back and gradually replace him. Luis Alberto should play more often too as he's always shown during his short cameos his ability to play the type of game BR is seeking.

Furthermore, it's Spurs we were playing, a team with great midfield talent based on individuality but not so as a collective team. The acid test will be when we play Man City and Chelsea, where there are players like Ramires, Milner and Toure who are incredibly hardworking. If we can beat them, that would be a major statement and the title would truly be within our grasp.

maypaxvobiscum » Tue Dec 17, 2013 4:31 pm wrote:The performance over the weekend shouldn't hide the concerns in midfield. We still need 1 more quality central midfielder. And I'm also of the impression that if Gerrard had played, the high pressing game that was on show would be significantly different because Gerrard doesn't have the tactical discipline. He's the best midfielder we have in terms of ability but he's not as hardworking as Allen and Henderson who gave the opposition no time to think. The moment they got the ball, Henderson and Allen would be onto them causing panic and forcing them into either losing the ball or making passes which usually do not reach the expected target.

Gerrard doesn't do that. Many times this and last season I've seen him lose the ball and not been bothered to chase it back, almost complacent or nonchalant. The Cazorla one is most vivid. Some may say that that's because he no longer has the legs but then if that's the case, the team should no longer be revolved around him especially if BR's blueprint for the team is best executed on match-days where he isn't involved. Gerrard is starting to be a liability in that sense as it seems to be the case that the approach in games are change to accommodate him.

A good player nonetheless, but more of a luxury player these days. I would really like to see Suso come back and gradually replace him. Luis Alberto should play more often too as he's always shown during his short cameos his ability to play the type of game BR is seeking.

Furthermore, it's Spurs we were playing, a team with great midfield talent based on individuality but not so as a collective team. The acid test will be when we play Man City and Chelsea, where there are players like Ramires, Milner and Toure who are incredibly hardworking. If we can beat them, that would be a major statement and the title would truly be within our grasp.

I don't think Gerrard was ever that good in CM.  Rafa never played him there either, always favoured a hard worker in there. He's seems like a great all out attack 90's PL midfielder who came just after his time. 

Capable of so many fantastic things.  His goals, shooting, peno's, set play, passing.  Possibly the best Liverpool player i have ever seen but always needed to be accommodated in a team. 

The problem is, at 33 his attributes are starting to fade and we have to ask whether he is worth accommodating anymore

maypaxvobiscum » Tue Dec 17, 2013 4:31 pm wrote:The performance over the weekend shouldn't hide the concerns in midfield. We still need 1 more quality central midfielder. And I'm also of the impression that if Gerrard had played, the high pressing game that was on show would be significantly different because Gerrard doesn't have the tactical discipline. He's the best midfielder we have in terms of ability but he's not as hardworking as Allen and Henderson who gave the opposition no time to think. The moment they got the ball, Henderson and Allen would be onto them causing panic and forcing them into either losing the ball or making passes which usually do not reach the expected target.

Gerrard doesn't do that. Many times this and last season I've seen him lose the ball and not been bothered to chase it back, almost complacent or nonchalant. The Cazorla one is most vivid. Some may say that that's because he no longer has the legs but then if that's the case, the team should no longer be revolved around him especially if BR's blueprint for the team is best executed on match-days where he isn't involved. Gerrard is starting to be a liability in that sense as it seems to be the case that the approach in games are change to accommodate him.

A good player nonetheless, but more of a luxury player these days. I would really like to see Suso come back and gradually replace him. Luis Alberto should play more often too as he's always shown during his short cameos his ability to play the type of game BR is seeking.

Furthermore, it's Spurs we were playing, a team with great midfield talent based on individuality but not so as a collective team. The acid test will be when we play Man City and Chelsea, where there are players like Ramires, Milner and Toure who are incredibly hardworking. If we can beat them, that would be a major statement and the title would truly be within our grasp.

Good post.

Gerrard is still a class act but it's clear as day that his effectiveness in games these days in basically determined by the level of opposition. Against the weaker sides at home this season he's absolutely run the show. By contrast at the Emirates he was awful and it was clear to anybody with half a brain that Lucas/Gerrard as a deep lying two just doesn't work as we get overrun in that area. We look much better with Allen in there.

When fit again Gerrard has to be in the side though as his delivery is worth it alone. He's joint first in terms of assists in the league this season. Perhaps there's an argument that he should be used sparingly and only in home matches where he's not required to track back. His biggest weapons are his set pieces and his long passes.

One amazing game against Spurs doesn't mean we can cope without Gerrard in midfield longer term and time will tell.

One thing I would say is that when he is midfield the others about him perhaps pass the buck a bit more and just play to assist him
rather than imposing their own attributes on the game.

Gerrard is not only a footballer but a huge presence at Liverpool and when he is in the team its possible he hold some others back
mentally where as Spurs they took the reigns off him and drove the team between them.

That Israeli Bibars Natkho... seems very suitable for us. Attack minded holding midfielder with range of passing... And he will be out of contract in Jan so he's free... And he's young...

maguskwt » Thu Dec 19, 2013 1:01 am wrote:That Israeli Bibars Natkho... seems very suitable for us. Attack minded holding midfielder with range of passing... And he will be out of contract in Jan so he's free... And he's young...

You seen him play or you just read an article on soccernet?

maypaxvobiscum » Thu Dec 19, 2013 1:59 am wrote:

maguskwt » Thu Dec 19, 2013 1:01 am wrote:That Israeli Bibars Natkho... seems very suitable for us. Attack minded holding midfielder with range of passing... And he will be out of contract in Jan so he's free... And he's young...

You seen him play or you just read an article on soccernet?

What do you think?