Liverpool FC Forum

During the summer fans have been busting blood vessels to see BR bring in a CB, BR has been busting blood vessels signing attack minded players, has midfield been overlooked?

I think so, and I don't believe we just need a DM either, one who can play second fiddle to Lucas. On that note, we need do need a DM Lucas can play second fiddle too imo.

A three man midfield is a formation I'm not certain of, not convinced of and certainly not with the personnel we have: Gerrard, Allen, Lucas, Henderson. Even as a foursome I think this midfield would struggle never mind a trio. Not one of those players is capable of performing top draw performances week in week out - like Gerrard could in his pomp. There's always a mistake there, a lack of creativity there, generally, there is always a lack of ability there.

Saturday's clash against Celtic reminded me of the reservations I had about midfield from last season. Basically if Gerrard is having a mare we're an ordinary outfit in midfield and that's putting in politely. Well, at least we weren't overrun in midfield like we were at Southampton last season (a tactical ***** up from BR IIRC) but that's what's on the cards against sides who like to play against.

We're too pedestrian with the sitters (Gerrard & Lucas) and we lack a purposeful midfielder ahead of them in Henderson and Allen imo. I'd opt for Allen out of the two at the moment but that's beside the point. There really isn't any creativity, physical presence or more importantly ability as far as I can see in our midfield. I think Allen, Henderson and Lucas are all average players and Gerrard on his day is still a top player but those days won't be as consistent anymore and Saturday showed this.

Maybe I'm being too harsh I don't know. The midfield look decent enough when their allowed the possession to knock the ball about but when they're under pressure by a team that looks to make midfield either a battle ground, or bossing midfield with their own possession we seem to chase shadows and therefore look open and vulnerable to attack, or we get bullied out of the game.

I don't think we have a trio with enough ability to 'earn the right to play'. As John Craig pointed out to me, compare Mascherano, Gerrard (in his pomp) and Alonso to Allen/Hendo, Lucas and Gerrard (on the wane) and their is a massive gulf in class. And lets not forget Mascherano, Gerrard and Alonso were often accompanied by a fourth midfielder or even a fifth!

Stoke on Saturday will be interesting and while many either blame poor defending for conceding goals or poor finishing for not taking our chances (which are of course valid grievances) I think key to our performance will be watching this midfield try and impose itself on the game.

I think BR will play a more 4 - 2 - 3 -1 formation to be honest.

               Mignolet

Johnson  Toure  Agger  Enrique
   
          Gerrard   Lucas

   Aspas  Coutinho  Sterling

             Sturridge

Would be my bet until (if) Suarez returns.  The two wide players will have backward responsibilities to counter us getting over run.  I do think we look light weight, and fear (as you do) that we risk being bossed off the park against "aggressive and physical" sides.  There is no sign of BR even looking for a more physical CM, but I do think we'll sign another forward, with pace, and that might be the creativity we are missing.  Although Coutinho playing in the Number 10 role has the potential to be the best in the Prem.

I've not been overly concerned. In fact I think Lucas has stepped up a notch in terms of aggression, the friendlies have shown him to be far more of a tackler than before.

Midfield is a huge concern as far as I'm concerned. I'm not sure I agree with the OP assessment though. Could we improve on Lucas ? Would'nt be easy or cheap but probably yes. Do we need to ? For me its a no. Gerrard is still a top player and with the right players around him I think he'll continue to be one of (if not the) most important players in the side. What does worry me though is the lack of balance in our midfield.

The players capable of playing well in the respective midfield positions are:

CM: Lucas, Gerrard, Henderson, Allen, Alberto (2 play)
CAM: Coutinho, Suarez, Aspas, Alberto, Henderson, Allen, Gerrard
Wingers: Sterling, Assaidi

For me, the key to making any formation that has 2 holding midfielders work is having wide players with the discipline and tactical awareness to help the more central players cover the width of the pitch.
Down the left flank, we'll most likely see one Suarez, Coutinho or Aspas playing in a roaming role with the freedom to support the striker at every chance. Down the right flank, we're on the verge of selling our best option in the position, with the only replacements being Sterling/Assiadi (neither is ready for a starting role imo) or Aspas/Borini (out of position, and both will struggle to help out defensively when needed; similar case to that at the other flank).

My guess is that we'll see this being implimented for large parts of the season unless a top wide player is brought in.

                       Gerrard               Lucas
Henderson                    Coutinho                 Aspas/Suarez
                                    Sturridge

Central midfield is probably our weakest area of the pitch, the worst thing is Rodgers refuses to acknowledge it. Gerrards is not what he was and cant be expected to perform the way he used to at his age, Lucas, Henderson and Allen just arn't good enough, their all pretty average. We can afford to have one of them, but two?! we will struggle big time this season with our lack speed, aggression, height, strength, athleticism and lack of creativity in central midfield. Allen and Lucas are a horrible combo, but you can guarantee they will start together, neither can score or create a goal or even barely mount an attack, they're also limited physically in the air and tackle. Of the bad bunch that we do have id play Henderson, Gerrard and Lucas together just so we can compete, but long term the whole lot of them need replacing, Allen could possibly be a first teamer if we buy someone to protect him, but im not sure his talent deserves having someone brought in to look after him.

not a major concern but it definately lacks balance. especially now that downing and sterling appear to be on the way out.

Yes, a little concerned, Stevie G's best days are few and far between, so we will need to replace him sooner or later. we need an almighty player that can emulate what Stevie has over years, with blood and guts etc etc. in fact we probably need at least the first 11 and squad just like him......

Gerrard has been a phenomenal player for us ,but he just cant be left doing the donkey work with Lucas in the middle . Stevie just cant
do it any more, teams with a more combative midfield will just  ease him out the game and stop him being anywhere near as effective
as he has been in the past.

We definitely need someone to work alongside Lucas quick enough to take control of the ball, and then distribute it intelligently every time
Lucas breaks up the oppositions play.

mkingdom » Mon Aug 12, 2013 11:33 am wrote:I think BR will play a more 4 - 2 - 3 -1 formation to be honest.

               Mignolet

Johnson  Toure  Agger  Enrique
   
          Gerrard   Lucas

   Aspas  Coutinho  Sterling

             Sturridge

Would be my bet until (if) Suarez returns.  The two wide players will have backward responsibilities to counter us getting over run.  I do think we look light weight, and fear (as you do) that we risk being bossed off the park against "aggressive and physical" sides.  There is no sign of BR even looking for a more physical CM, but I do think we'll sign another forward, with pace, and that might be the creativity we are missing.  Although Coutinho playing in the Number 10 role has the potential to be the best in the Prem.

Well, after seeing this:

Expanding on his plans for Coutinho, Rodgers continued: "No question, Coutinho's best position is the No.10.

"And once we get the right kind of quality to put on the sides, he will play in that central role. That is where he affects the game best.

"At the moment, he has the licence to jump in and come inside - joining in and making passes, and we accommodate defensively when he does that.

"But there is no doubt, his best position is in the middle."

http://www.liverpoolfc.com/news/latest- ... d-on-deals

it appears your formation is the way Rodgers wants to go which leaves Allen, Henderson, Gerrard and Lucas fighting for two spots - he could throw Hendo out wide where Aspas and Sterling are in your side but I think Henderson is pretty much ineffective out there.

Again, this concerns me, not playing Coutinho in his most effective position but the fact we now only have two genuine midfielders in the side - Southampton bells are ringing. Didn't we play with just two against Southampton down at St.Mary's only to get totally overrun and totally mauled by them?

Asking Sterling and Aspas to drop deep and become a 4 man midfield I'm not sure about, especially Aspas who will be asked to run the flanks like a winger and I'm not sure he's effective as that, Sterling maybe.

Still not convinced. Like RBG says, Gerrard doesn't have the legs anymore and Lucas needs more cover than that IMO - a Mascherano type player would be perfect alongside Lucas but we don't have that.

On that note I'm not sure Rodgers knows what the best solution is, if we were hell bent on signing Mkhitaryan surely he would have played the number 10 role, does this mean he'd have shoehorned Countinho out wide on the left?

No real opinion for me on this one. I fall into the camp of surely we won't make the same mistakes we did last year and sell/loan and leave ourselves without adequate cover.

Regarding the topic itself i had to comment that it's funny/ironic to see us concerned that we have too many attacking players and are thin in the middle when that has been the #1 concern on this board for at least the last 3 seasons.

Only concern for me is Joe Allen. Not sure how our £15 million Welsh Xavi fits into the first 11. Personally I would much rather someone more physical in his place, a Wanyama/Fellaini/Yaya Toure type.

Aussie Style » Wed Aug 14, 2013 12:24 am wrote:Only concern for me is Joe Allen. Not sure how our £15 million Welsh Xavi fits into the first 11. Personally I would much rather someone more physical in his place, a Wanyama/Fellaini/Yaya Toure type.

But, if you have been paying attention in preseason, he has been playing more forward almost parallel to Coutinho. His preseason role is far more attacking than defensive.

SouthCoastShankly » Wed Aug 14, 2013 1:37 am wrote:

Aussie Style » Wed Aug 14, 2013 12:24 am wrote:Only concern for me is Joe Allen. Not sure how our £15 million Welsh Xavi fits into the first 11. Personally I would much rather someone more physical in his place, a Wanyama/Fellaini/Yaya Toure type.

But, if you have been paying attention in preseason, he has been playing more forward almost parallel to Coutinho. His preseason role is far more attacking than defensive.

Yes, I have noticed, and from what I've seen, he has been pretty good in that role. I especially like his ability to press his opponent further up the pitch. He has made some good runs into the box, and while his finishing isn't the best, you can't fault his effort. But as I was saying, when we have a full squad to pick from, I don't see where he fits into the first 11. Assuming Lucas, Gerrard, Coutinho, Suarez and Sturridge are all regular starters, is Joe Allen the man you'd pick for that last spot in midfield?

Aussie Style » Wed Aug 14, 2013 5:57 am wrote:

SouthCoastShankly » Wed Aug 14, 2013 1:37 am wrote:

Aussie Style » Wed Aug 14, 2013 12:24 am wrote:Only concern for me is Joe Allen. Not sure how our £15 million Welsh Xavi fits into the first 11. Personally I would much rather someone more physical in his place, a Wanyama/Fellaini/Yaya Toure type.

But, if you have been paying attention in preseason, he has been playing more forward almost parallel to Coutinho. His preseason role is far more attacking than defensive.

Yes, I have noticed, and from what I've seen, he has been pretty good in that role. I especially like his ability to press his opponent further up the pitch. He has made some good runs into the box, and while his finishing isn't the best, you can't fault his effort. But as I was saying, when we have a full squad to pick from, I don't see where he fits into the first 11. Assuming Lucas, Gerrard, Coutinho, Suarez and Sturridge are all regular starters, is Joe Allen the man you'd pick for that last spot in midfield?

Totally agreed, that's what I've seen too mate. Even if the ability isn't top drawer the application is, wish I could say the same for Henderson.

Can't understand how can people rate Allen more than Henderson. Henderson may not be our best player, but he's superior to Allen in all aspects IMO.