Liverpool FC Forum

Hold up a minute KK.

I know many including the thought police on here would have you arrested for having racist views in your head even though you've kept them to yourself, but until reading people's minds becomes a possibility, unfortunately for them they won't be able to arrest anyone. Failing that though is the next best thing, suppressing one's racist views from public opinion, this doesn't mean it cannot controversially be discussed but if the absence of pure vitriol and abuse is suppressed that's the best you are going to get.

Is this an anti racism statement OR one in support of allowing racists to vent as much bile as they want ?

SouthCoastShankly » Fri Oct 26, 2012 9:06 am wrote:i disagree, you can't have players like john terry being caught on camera saying 'black c*nt' and it going unpunished. It sends a message to kids watching that it is an acceptable thing to say.

You may never kick racism out of society or football completely but you can send a message that it is unacceptable.

I agree with you. I have not said that being racist is acceptable and if a person is guilty of using racially abusive language, they ought to be punished for it. However I am so fed up of reading about this nonsense, two incidents in England and suddenly there's a massive media storm about it with sensationalism taking precedence over anything else. You've got people like Gordon Taylor and Clarke Carlisle hell bent on milking as much publicity from this as possible. You've also got people like Jason Roberts calling for an the introduction of 'positive discrimination' in football with the Rooney Ruling nonsense.

Racists will always exist and racism will always exist in football. Mark Hughes's response to this growing nonsense is how I feel about it. Nobody wants to see racism in society or in football, but the fact of the matter is, no matter how many campaigns there are, how much money is raised, you will never get rid of it. You may drive it underground, but just because you cannot see something, doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

Kharhaz » Fri Oct 26, 2012 3:44 am wrote:
Your ignorance is why campaigns like Kick it Out exist.

No, it exists to stamp out racism and it's not working at all. It will never work, just because racism is by-in-large absent from the terraces of football stadiums, doesn't mean it has gone away or has declined in numbers, it just means it has been supressed and moved away from the terraces and let's not forget it was Chelsea fans signing 'Anton Ferdinand you know what you are', last season. So further proof that racism isn't totally absent from football. People like Jason Roberts don't help matters when he starts promoting reverse discrimination with silly rules like the Rooney Ruling which Arsene Wenger laughed off and rightly so. It wouldn't surprise me if Jason Roberts was a racist, he's certainly doing everything he can to become the face of a proposed 'black union for footballers'. Maybe he sees himself as the British version of Malcolm-X, who knows?

Boxscarf » Sat Oct 27, 2012 6:13 pm wrote:

Kharhaz » Fri Oct 26, 2012 3:44 am wrote:
Your ignorance is why campaigns like Kick it Out exist.

No, it exists to stamp out racism and it's not working at all. It will never work, just because racism is by-in-large absent from the terraces of football stadiums, doesn't mean it has gone away or has declined in numbers, it just means it has been supressed and moved away from the terraces and let's not forget it was Chelsea fans signing 'Anton Ferdinand you know what you are', last season. So further proof that racism isn't totally absent from football. People like Jason Roberts don't help matters when he starts promoting reverse discrimination with silly rules like the Rooney Ruling which Arsene Wenger laughed off and rightly so. It wouldn't surprise me if Jason Roberts was a racist, he's certainly doing everything he can to become the face of a proposed 'black union for footballers'. Maybe he sees himself as the British version of Malcolm-X, who knows?

you're an idiot.

7_Kewell » Sat Oct 27, 2012 7:50 pm wrote:
you're an idiot.

Yes and yet with nonsense like this I suppose you expect me to take you seriously? Anyone who refuses to believe in such a futile campaign such as 'Kick it out' which clearly isn't working is an idiot. I'm glad I haven't donated a penny of my own money to such a futile movement, because then I'd really feel like an idiot. The Kick it out movement is also undermined by the Football Association with their ridiculous punishment of John Terry. If the FA aren't going to roll up their sleeves and really start taking this issue seriously, then the movement has no hope of progression (not that it has much chance of progression). You can educate people on racism and how it's unacceptable, but there will always be people with racist thoughts and feelings. Racism exists and won't ever go away, it's been around since time began and it will be around long after everyone on this football forum has died. I know it's hard to accept, but that's a fact and given how little UEFA and FIFA seem to be doing about racism further undermines anti-racist movements in football. People like Anton and Rio Ferdinand, Jason Roberts and Clark Carlisle are fighting a battle they can never win.

woof woof ! » Sat Oct 27, 2012 5:24 pm wrote:Hold up a minute KK.

I know many including the thought police on here would have you arrested for having racist views in your head even though you've kept them to yourself, but until reading people's minds becomes a possibility, unfortunately for them they won't be able to arrest anyone. Failing that though is the next best thing, suppressing one's racist views from public opinion, this doesn't mean it cannot controversially be discussed but if the absence of pure vitriol and abuse is suppressed that's the best you are going to get.

Is this an anti racism statement OR one in support of allowing racists to vent as much bile as they want ?

Well, it's certainly not a statement that allows racists to vent as much bile as they want woof. Realistically, silencing racist views is the best way to combat racism, i.e if society deems it unacceptable to publicize racist bile then the fight against racism is half way won.

BUT if a person is racist, through fear, stereotypical misconceptions, naivety or whatever and keeps their thoughts to themselves (which as I've already stated is a good thing and part of the battle is won because they know society deems it unacceptable) and doesn't spew them publicly (like hate speech), then it's fine. For example, I wouldn't want to take my son to a football match and have him hear some knuckle dragger's views about 'throwing a banana at a black player'. Football, society has come a long way since John Barnes was pelted with bananas and that's because society as a whole deems this kind of behaviour and action as totally unacceptable. However, if that same knuckle dragger, still believed throwing a banana at a black player is funny or whatever, but didn't action it and kept his foul abusive language to himself for 90 mins then that's also good. Like Boxscarf said, you could be sitting next to a racist at a match but you wouldn't know it, if he kept his views to himself, for me that's the best and most effective way to combat racism.

Unless of course you actually advocate your wife taking your personal belongings and all  your finances in a divorce case because she has read your lucid horny mind about doing the younger and fitter model next door to you both. Or conversely, you have invented some neurological piece of technology that can erase racist thoughts from every person's mind, then as stated above it's the best way to combat racism.

I hope I've cleared that up for you.

Clear as mud, thanks KK.     

Any one seen this in the Chelsea - Man U game last night?



Saw a retweet of Piers Morgan on twitter, summed it up quite well.

That racist #Chelsea fan's likely defence: "I was asking Welbeck if he made a monkey sign at me." #TerryEffect

Eastern bloc chelsea 

(there's a fecking black kid just up to the right from that c.unt, poor b@rstard)

Nice to see Fergie backing his players...........err Refs 


----------------------------------------------------------
Manchester United boss Sir Alex Ferguson says he does not believe Mark Clattenburg would make racist comments.

The referee stands accused of directing racist comments at Chelsea midfielder John Obi Mikel during United's 3-2 win at Stamford Bridge last Sunday.

The matter is being investigated by the Football Association and the Metropolitan Police while Chelsea are conducting their own internal inquiry.

But Ferguson said: "I don't believe Mark Clattenburg would make any comments like that. I refuse to believe it.


"I think it's unthinkable in the modern climate. I just don't believe it. It's as simple as that. There's no way a referee would do that or stoop to that, I'm convinced about that.

"I think it's unthinkable in the modern climate. I just don't believe it. It's as simple as that. There's no way a referee would do that or stoop to that, I'm convinced about that.

"I think that the modern game that we see today, as opposed to 25 years ago, has completely changed.

"I played myself and I know that the banter that went on between referees and players 25 years ago is completely different from today.

"I've never had a player ever come to me in the last 15 years to say that a referee ever swore in a game, ever."

I am a bit dubious about the whole thing myself, its getting out of hand now.

from what ive heard about this is that clattenberg called mikel a "cheeky monkey". .mikel was nagging and nagging for everything and clattenberg said go away you "cheeky monkey" . .
this by my accounts is an innocent remark that had nothing at all to do with racism. mikel obviously heard monkey and screams racist.
this is a very similar situation to suarez where a term of endearment from one culture is seen to offend someone from another and because one of the parties involved happens to be black then it becomes racism.
chelsea are no doubt seething from the terry affair and see this as maybe a way of getting back at the fa. they are now getting what they deserve because they stood by terry all they way and even avoided criticism when they requested terrys case be put off till the summer. our players wore a t-shirt in support of their mate and our club got dragged through the gutters for it. .
they will come out of this looking bad and i can see most 50/50's going the other way in future