Liverpool FC Forum

Not sure any of the people that are criticising him on the ground watched most of last season.

Especially the last third of it.

Watch the united cup game again and you will see some superb touches and bringing others into play.
Towards the end of the season when he played more he looked so much sharper and looked to have his confidence back.

Who knows what is in Rodgers thoughts but if he carries on where he ended the season i bet any of you he plays regularly and does well.
Also like Benny has said Swansea have a reputation as being a footballing side and rightly so, however Danny Graham was their main striker and isnt what i would call a nimble quick player.

Examples have been given of top players that are similar in what they offer yet people choose to still ignore facts/
Gomez was one of the top scorers in europe last season and will be a key player for the much fancied germans.
Dont tell me he is technically better than Carroll and has a different style of game.

There is a place for these type of players in football and Andy Carroll will prove it next season.

maguskwt » Wed Jun 06, 2012 2:48 pm wrote:
You would like to compare Sheringham's football IQ to Carroll's'? 

Sheringham studies the game and knows the right place and the right time to be there to score crucial goals. Carroll will only know after he watches himself on the tape after the game... "Oh i should've been there..."

And Sheringham wasn't your typical targetman... he scores alot with his head not because he's big and tall but because of his anticipation and vision and football IQ. He's more like Klose in that sense... pls give me a player like Sheringham/ Klose anyday over Carroll...

Sheringham was also not the manc's main striker... it was Cole and Yorke...

at carroll`s age sheringham was at millwall and on loan at aldershot, he didnt even move to spurs until he was on the verge of turning 27 and he went to united a year later.
he certainly wasnt good enough at 23 to trouble all the top defences in the league which carroll has done at various points in his short career.

D___C » Wed Jun 06, 2012 3:22 pm wrote:

ycsatbjywtbiastkamb » Wed Jun 06, 2012 1:28 pm wrote:football didnt begin in 1992 you know lad, the best sides in our history had target men centre forwards leading the line.

Different era now though.. game is much faster and mobility upfront is even more key than previous. In comparison to today the game pre 1990s was at walking pace, much less ground was covered. Andy Carroll in the 1970s would have ran riot.

Target men nowadays have to be mobile (ie. Drogba), or, have game intelligence (ie. Ibramhimovic). Its been well documented that the old English style 'target man' died out years ago when the PL foreign influx occured and the game developed. Harking back to an era that wouldnt get success today doesnt apply.

Andy may of course have more in his locker that he hasnt shown yet, and its quite possible that Rodgers will get more out of him. The quotes about "lifting the burden" off the players is an early indicator of superb manmanagement.

Benny im aware of the quotes that Rodgers stated about Carroll prior to playing them, and its clear he rates him, but its a whole different story commenting on an opposition player than your own. From what we have seen to date, he is not a Brendan Rodgers player, however he may be moulded into one. Thats what we are all hoping anyway. He looked incredible in the two games against Chelsea, so it would be great if he could convert that type of performance into Rodgers system.

the only reason the game is quicker these days is because the pitches are like bowling greens and the ball is a flyaway.
these players would look exactly the same if they had to play on the type of surfaces that the players from back in the day had to play on, infact they`d look even worse, you see it when they play away in eastern europe sometimes, whenever modern players play on a surface that isnt great half of them look like they`ve never kicked a ball before and those eastern european pitches are nowhere near as bad as the half mud / half sand surfaces players played on years ago.
it`s the same with pace, they just look quicker these days because the surfaces they run over are condusive to fast running, here`s a clip of the 1970`s tv show superstars and at 1min 47 they mention and show malcolm mcdonald holding the 100m record in a time of 10.9, thats nearly as fast as walcott and mcdonald was a f**king tank, he was a target man, in his day he wasnt known for being particularly quick, he wasnt slow but he wasnt like rush renowned for his pace.



the only thing thats changed is that players have stopped bevvying and they cover more ground, but again it`s a lot harder to clock up the miles when your running in a mudbath and someone has kicked f**k out of your legs.

ycsatbjywtbiastkamb » Wed Jun 06, 2012 5:49 pm wrote:

D___C » Wed Jun 06, 2012 3:22 pm wrote:

ycsatbjywtbiastkamb » Wed Jun 06, 2012 1:28 pm wrote:football didnt begin in 1992 you know lad, the best sides in our history had target men centre forwards leading the line.

Different era now though.. game is much faster and mobility upfront is even more key than previous. In comparison to today the game pre 1990s was at walking pace, much less ground was covered. Andy Carroll in the 1970s would have ran riot.

Target men nowadays have to be mobile (ie. Drogba), or, have game intelligence (ie. Ibramhimovic). Its been well documented that the old English style 'target man' died out years ago when the PL foreign influx occured and the game developed. Harking back to an era that wouldnt get success today doesnt apply.

Andy may of course have more in his locker that he hasnt shown yet, and its quite possible that Rodgers will get more out of him. The quotes about "lifting the burden" off the players is an early indicator of superb manmanagement.

Benny im aware of the quotes that Rodgers stated about Carroll prior to playing them, and its clear he rates him, but its a whole different story commenting on an opposition player than your own. From what we have seen to date, he is not a Brendan Rodgers player, however he may be moulded into one. Thats what we are all hoping anyway. He looked incredible in the two games against Chelsea, so it would be great if he could convert that type of performance into Rodgers system.

the only reason the game is quicker these days is because the pitches are like bowling greens and the ball is a flyaway.
these players would look exactly the same if they had to play on the type of surfaces that the players from back in the day had to play on, infact they`d look even worse, you see it when they play away in eastern europe sometimes, whenever modern players play on a surface that isnt great half of them look like they`ve never kicked a ball before and those eastern european pitches are nowhere near as bad as the half mud / half sand surfaces players played on years ago.
it`s the same with pace, they just look quicker these days because the surfaces they run over are condusive to fast running, here`s a clip of the 1970`s tv show superstars and at 1min 47 they mention and show malcolm mcdonald holding the 100m record in a time of 10.9, thats nearly as fast as walcott and mcdonald was a f**king tank, he was a target man, in his day he wasnt known for being particularly quick, he wasnt slow but he wasnt like rush renowned for his pace.



the only thing thats changed is that players have stopped bevvying and they cover more ground, but again it`s a lot harder to clock up the miles when your running in a mudbath and someone has kicked f**k out of your legs.

Andy is an alcy
Fabio said so...

Michael Owen didn't cost £35m did he?

Michael Owen played at a time when Chelsea, Manchester City and Spurs weren't in the top four.

Football in 2012 is a lot different to football in 2002.

We need a 20+ goals a season striker more than anything now.

Who from Tottenham and Chelsea scored 20 goals

RichardLFC1 » Wed Jun 06, 2012 7:14 pm wrote:Who from Tottenham and Chelsea scored 20 goals

The top three teams in the league last season had a striker who scored more than 20 goals.

Van Persie scored 30, Rooney scored 27 and Aguero scored 23.

Ben Patrick » Wed Jun 06, 2012 6:21 pm wrote:Not sure any of the people that are criticising him on the ground watched most of last season.

Especially the last third of it.

Watch the united cup game again and you will see some superb touches and bringing others into play.
Towards the end of the season when he played more he looked so much sharper and looked to have his confidence back.

Who knows what is in Rodgers thoughts but if he carries on where he ended the season i bet any of you he plays regularly and does well.
Also like Benny has said Swansea have a reputation as being a footballing side and rightly so, however Danny Graham was their main striker and isnt what i would call a nimble quick player.

Examples have been given of top players that are similar in what they offer yet people choose to still ignore facts/
Gomez was one of the top scorers in europe last season and will be a key player for the much fancied germans.
Dont tell me he is technically better than Carroll and has a different style of game.

There is a place for these type of players in football and Andy Carroll will prove it next season.

Ben, I assure you that my opinion of Carroll is based on his whole career, both the times he has been playing well and also when he hasn’t, at Newcastle and Liverpool. ALL players are capable of good touches, good games, and a purple patch so looking back to individual games isn’t a great way to judge a players. Hell I can remember games when Heskey looked world class. I acknowledge that in the last few games of the season Carroll was one of our best players. But I think there is an awful lot of hyperbole off the back of those last few games and peoples opinions are being clouded by their desperation for him to do well because of the price tag.

The primary reason for Mario Gomez being in the Bayern side isn’t his height, strength or heading ability. His biggest attribute is his movement and “game intelligence”, its world class. He isn’t even a world class finisher or particularly quick but he gets so many chances because of his movement and natural ability to read the game. We should stop assuming all strikers over 6 feet tall are used predominately as target men. They aren’t.

I have no idea what Rodgers is planning and he might decide to stick with Andy next season but moving on from Carroll as our main striker within the next few transfer windows should be on the agenda in my opinion.  Sure this is a place for players like Andy Carroll in football, but just not at clubs that aspire to play champions league football and ultimately challenge for the premier league.

I have no problem with people considering his overall record at the club. His past performances offer some indication of his ability and it's only sensible to look at all of the evidence when coming to a judgment about his potential at the club. I think it's also fair to say that it hasn't been plain sailing since he joined and there's been plenty of reason to doubt him, as Kerry will tell you a thousand times, though not quite as vociferously as he once used to. It's a mistake, though, to fail to recognise the signs of progress he's made in recent times and to fail to attribute due significance to them, as opposed to his past performances.

Some will say that the progress he's made only amounts to a few games toward the end of last season and can't therefore be relied upon, but I'd say there were signs of his growing confidence a fair while before the Chelsea game. Blackburn away springs to mind. Even so, what you saw in those few games was more than a little encouraging. He absolutely nonsed the Chelsea defence at Wembley, showing when he took his goal that he's not just a big lump who can't trap a ball and that when he wants to he can be a beast of a player. It's tempting to be cynical about it, England being England, Roy being Roy, but I'm sure that getting called up to play for his country in the Euros will have affirmed his own self-confidence and if he makesthe most of it, that's got to be good for us. I personally think it's great that we have six players in the squad, young and old.

None of this is to say we can rest on our laurels and just assume his progression will continue. We should be looking to sign other players to ease the burden on him and the rest of the squad.

Eagle » Wed Jun 06, 2012 7:42 pm wrote:

Ben Patrick » Wed Jun 06, 2012 6:21 pm wrote:Not sure any of the people that are criticising him on the ground watched most of last season.

Especially the last third of it.

Watch the united cup game again and you will see some superb touches and bringing others into play.
Towards the end of the season when he played more he looked so much sharper and looked to have his confidence back.

Who knows what is in Rodgers thoughts but if he carries on where he ended the season i bet any of you he plays regularly and does well.
Also like Benny has said Swansea have a reputation as being a footballing side and rightly so, however Danny Graham was their main striker and isnt what i would call a nimble quick player.

Examples have been given of top players that are similar in what they offer yet people choose to still ignore facts/
Gomez was one of the top scorers in europe last season and will be a key player for the much fancied germans.
Dont tell me he is technically better than Carroll and has a different style of game.

There is a place for these type of players in football and Andy Carroll will prove it next season.

Ben, I assure you that my opinion of Carroll is based on his whole career, both the times he has been playing well and also when he hasn’t, at Newcastle and Liverpool. ALL players are capable of good touches, good games, and a purple patch so looking back to individual games isn’t a great way to judge a players. Hell I can remember games when Heskey looked world class. I acknowledge that in the last few games of the season Carroll was one of our best players. But I think there is an awful lot of hyperbole off the back of those last few games and peoples opinions are being clouded by their desperation for him to do well because of the price tag.

The primary reason for Mario Gomez being in the Bayern side isn’t his height, strength or heading ability. His biggest attribute is his movement and “game intelligence”, its world class. He isn’t even a world class finisher or particularly quick but he gets so many chances because of his movement and natural ability to read the game. We should stop assuming all strikers over 6 feet tall are used predominately as target men. They aren’t.

I have no idea what Rodgers is planning and he might decide to stick with Andy next season but moving on from Carroll as our main striker within the next few transfer windows should be on the agenda in my opinion.  Sure this is a place for players like Andy Carroll in football, but just not at clubs that aspire to play champions league football and ultimately challenge for the premier league.

he turned 23 about 4 months ago mate, he`s nowhere near the finished article yet but he will improve and to be fair he has improved.
he played well for the second half of the season not just the last 2 or 3 games.

23 is not a young age anymore... He has 3-4 seasons to peak at 27/28. He will never ever be in the same pedigree as Owen or Fowler or Torres...

If he starts for England against France I firmly believe he will terrorise their back four ....The tale of the Big Man is just beginning .

maguskwt » Mon Jun 11, 2012 3:33 pm wrote:23 is not a young age anymore... He has 3-4 seasons to peak at 27/28. He will never ever be in the same pedigree as Owen or Fowler or Torres...

  How daft is that comment?

With all the technology and facilities available today, players are playing well into their 30's, just look at Scholes and Giggs to name just two.

maguskwt » Mon Jun 11, 2012 2:33 pm wrote:23 is not a young age anymore... He has 3-4 seasons to peak at 27/28. He will never ever be in the same pedigree as Owen or Fowler or Torres...

23 is the new 30!

RED BEERGOGGLES » Mon Jun 11, 2012 3:08 pm wrote:If he starts for England against France I firmly believe he will terrorise their back four ....The tale of the Big Man is just beginning .

I don't think Carroll will make a single appearance at this European Championship.