Liverpool FC Forum

Kharhaz » Wed May 23, 2012 12:56 am wrote:
no its not, for a start we were a second division club when we hired shankly and we had been one for 6 seasons.
if we were in the second division now i`d say yes, fair enough lets go for martinez, but we are not.
and i`ve already explained how money has changed the game in an earlier post, these days you have managers who`s entire mindset is to keep teams in divisions, that didnt happen years ago, if you went down a division it didnt make hardly any difference to your finances if you still had decent crowds.

We were a club going nowhere, then we hired someone who had a vision. Sound familiar?[/quote]

mate in another thread you reckoned benitez only cared about lining his own pockets and now you are comparing roberto martinez to a one in a million managerial genius who is a giant figure in the game in england. even the f**king mancs admire shankly.
are you bevvied or something?

Wigan's outlay for salaries and transfers is nothing compared to 90% of the premiership clubs, every year they are certain to go down and Martinez keeps them up.  They get their best players plucked every season and still stay up.  He's a good manager, is he great?  I don't know, but pep guardiola ain't walkin' through the door.  If we could have gotten the one the high profile managers then fine, but it is looking likely that won't happen.  btw I wouldn't touch Van Gaal, Rijkaard, or Capello with a ten foot pole.  An up and coming manager would trump any of those.

The big question for me is : How will Martinez cope with the pressures/egos of a big club?  Those are things unanswerable until he's put in the situation, but from the things people say that know him, he's a strong character which will obviously help.

ycsatbjywtbiastkamb » Wed May 23, 2012 2:02 am wrote:

Kharhaz » Wed May 23, 2012 12:56 am wrote:
no its not, for a start we were a second division club when we hired shankly and we had been one for 6 seasons.
if we were in the second division now i`d say yes, fair enough lets go for martinez, but we are not.
and i`ve already explained how money has changed the game in an earlier post, these days you have managers who`s entire mindset is to keep teams in divisions, that didnt happen years ago, if you went down a division it didnt make hardly any difference to your finances if you still had decent crowds.

We were a club going nowhere, then we hired someone who had a vision. Sound familiar?

mate in another thread you reckoned benitez only cared about lining his own pockets and now you are comparing roberto martinez to a one in a million managerial genius who is a giant figure in the game in england. even the f**king mancs admire shankly.
are you bevvied or something?

No, I am tired though. My points are simple, back when Shankly took over, we took a risk on a manager with no real credentials to his name, he is now a legend. I look at todays supporter and see nothing but "WE DESERVE THE BEST" why do we? What have we done to deserve the best? I saw a comment that Martinez should manage a mid table team first to gain experience. Fine, ok, so what are we? Are we a mid table team?

I do believe we are. We have supporters celebrating Kenny getting us into the UEFA cup whereas a season or two ago we mocked it. Where is the line drawn?

We are a mid table club. Unfortunate events have driven us here. We are nowhere near challenging for our no.19, we are nowhere near challenging for a champions league place, we are nowhere near being a top 4 club. But the way many supporters delude themself as to how we are still a big club is embarrassing. We are what we are, and what we are are a mid table club who is in no position at all to demand the best.

Good interview with John Barnes: http://www.liverpoolfc.tv/news/latest-news/barnes-on-lfc-barca-future

                 
different game back then mate,

ycdugfukhuahk how can you say that when 95% of your posts are about our past and use them to argue your point today?

Kharhaz » Wed May 23, 2012 1:12 am wrote:

ycsatbjywtbiastkamb » Wed May 23, 2012 2:02 am wrote:

Kharhaz » Wed May 23, 2012 12:56 am wrote:
no its not, for a start we were a second division club when we hired shankly and we had been one for 6 seasons.
if we were in the second division now i`d say yes, fair enough lets go for martinez, but we are not.
and i`ve already explained how money has changed the game in an earlier post, these days you have managers who`s entire mindset is to keep teams in divisions, that didnt happen years ago, if you went down a division it didnt make hardly any difference to your finances if you still had decent crowds.

We were a club going nowhere, then we hired someone who had a vision. Sound familiar?

mate in another thread you reckoned benitez only cared about lining his own pockets and now you are comparing roberto martinez to a one in a million managerial genius who is a giant figure in the game in england. even the f**king mancs admire shankly.
are you bevvied or something?

No, I am tired though. My points are simple, back when Shankly took over, we took a risk on a manager with no real credentials to his name, he is now a legend. I look at todays supporter and see nothing but "WE DESERVE THE BEST" why do we? What have we done to deserve the best? I saw a comment that Martinez should manage a mid table team first to gain experience. Fine, ok, so what are we? Are we a mid table team?

I do believe we are. We have supporters celebrating Kenny getting us into the UEFA cup whereas a season or two ago we mocked it. Where is the line drawn?

We are a mid table club. Unfortunate events have driven us here. We are nowhere near challenging for our no.19, we are nowhere near challenging for a champions league place, we are nowhere near being a top 4 club. But the way many supporters delude themself as to how we are still a big club is embarrassing. We are what we are, and what we are are a mid table club who is in no position at all to demand the best.

Wow!
Interesting post....but I have to agree with a lot of what you say.....well put Kharhaz.
We don't have a divine right to the best manager in the world.
I do wish we moved heaven and earth to get Brendan Rogers though. I really like his attitude, approach and mentality. He's a humble man. One we need in the club.

Kharhaz » Wed May 23, 2012 1:12 am wrote:

ycsatbjywtbiastkamb » Wed May 23, 2012 2:02 am wrote:

Kharhaz » Wed May 23, 2012 12:56 am wrote:
no its not, for a start we were a second division club when we hired shankly and we had been one for 6 seasons.
if we were in the second division now i`d say yes, fair enough lets go for martinez, but we are not.
and i`ve already explained how money has changed the game in an earlier post, these days you have managers who`s entire mindset is to keep teams in divisions, that didnt happen years ago, if you went down a division it didnt make hardly any difference to your finances if you still had decent crowds.

We were a club going nowhere, then we hired someone who had a vision. Sound familiar?

mate in another thread you reckoned benitez only cared about lining his own pockets and now you are comparing roberto martinez to a one in a million managerial genius who is a giant figure in the game in england. even the f**king mancs admire shankly.
are you bevvied or something?

No, I am tired though. My points are simple, back when Shankly took over, we took a risk on a manager with no real credentials to his name, he is now a legend. I look at todays supporter and see nothing but "WE DESERVE THE BEST" why do we? What have we done to deserve the best? I saw a comment that Martinez should manage a mid table team first to gain experience. Fine, ok, so what are we? Are we a mid table team?

I do believe we are. We have supporters celebrating Kenny getting us into the UEFA cup whereas a season or two ago we mocked it. Where is the line drawn?

We are a mid table club. Unfortunate events have driven us here. We are nowhere near challenging for our no.19, we are nowhere near challenging for a champions league place, we are nowhere near being a top 4 club. But the way many supporters delude themself as to how we are still a big club is embarrassing. We are what we are, and what we are are a mid table club who is in no position at all to demand the best.

when Shankly took over us, we were a small club, small club appointing a lesser known manager is the norm.
after calming down...and peeling off all the glamorous tag of avb being the next top young manager, i think martinez has more experience than avb. martinez overachieved with a team of nobody. avb underachieved with a team of stars.

Kharhaz » Wed May 23, 2012 1:12 am wrote:

ycsatbjywtbiastkamb » Wed May 23, 2012 2:02 am wrote:

Kharhaz » Wed May 23, 2012 12:56 am wrote:
no its not, for a start we were a second division club when we hired shankly and we had been one for 6 seasons.
if we were in the second division now i`d say yes, fair enough lets go for martinez, but we are not.
and i`ve already explained how money has changed the game in an earlier post, these days you have managers who`s entire mindset is to keep teams in divisions, that didnt happen years ago, if you went down a division it didnt make hardly any difference to your finances if you still had decent crowds.

We were a club going nowhere, then we hired someone who had a vision. Sound familiar?

mate in another thread you reckoned benitez only cared about lining his own pockets and now you are comparing roberto martinez to a one in a million managerial genius who is a giant figure in the game in england. even the f**king mancs admire shankly.
are you bevvied or something?

No, I am tired though. My points are simple, back when Shankly took over, we took a risk on a manager with no real credentials to his name, he is now a legend. I look at todays supporter and see nothing but "WE DESERVE THE BEST" why do we? What have we done to deserve the best? I saw a comment that Martinez should manage a mid table team first to gain experience. Fine, ok, so what are we? Are we a mid table team?

I do believe we are. We have supporters celebrating Kenny getting us into the UEFA cup whereas a season or two ago we mocked it. Where is the line drawn?

We are a mid table club. Unfortunate events have driven us here. We are nowhere near challenging for our no.19, we are nowhere near challenging for a champions league place, we are nowhere near being a top 4 club. But the way many supporters delude themself as to how we are still a big club is embarrassing. We are what we are, and what we are are a mid table club who is in no position at all to demand the best.

Mate, you should post when you are tired more often. This is a sobering and compelling read.

I think I'd go with Martinez over AVB, but I remember how gutted I felt when Chelsea got him, I really thought they were on a winner with him. Perhaps in the right structure, with the right support, both of them could turn into world beaters. I guess though that now, between the two of them I prefer Martinez's lack of baggage, as I'm not sure if AVB has the drive to prove himself.

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Doorecoidge » Wed May 23, 2012 6:23 am wrote:DFHSDpRGRW    Very nice post,ty       yVRFNJYBT
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RED BEERGOGGLES » Tue May 22, 2012 9:34 pm wrote:

Boocity » Tue May 22, 2012 9:08 pm wrote:

roberto green » Tue May 22, 2012 9:05 pm wrote:Whys that though cos Rafa wasn't saying how great he (Gerrard) was evey game, Rafa did actually sing Gerrards praises a few times too, Rafa is a perfectionist and that what makes him stand out as the only realistic best man for the job.

Replacing Alonso with a crocked Aquilani was not really perfection was it

Although, identifying players of the quality of Alonso and Garcia in the first instance was tantamount to genius .
not to mention Mascherano and Sissoko .

Yes it was but you are talking about the early part of his time with us and I don't dispute that he did some great things and took us forward but things did go downhill and  I am talking about the latter part of his tenure

Kharhaz » Wed May 23, 2012 1:12 am wrote:

ycsatbjywtbiastkamb » Wed May 23, 2012 2:02 am wrote:

Kharhaz » Wed May 23, 2012 12:56 am wrote:
no its not, for a start we were a second division club when we hired shankly and we had been one for 6 seasons.
if we were in the second division now i`d say yes, fair enough lets go for martinez, but we are not.
and i`ve already explained how money has changed the game in an earlier post, these days you have managers who`s entire mindset is to keep teams in divisions, that didnt happen years ago, if you went down a division it didnt make hardly any difference to your finances if you still had decent crowds.

We were a club going nowhere, then we hired someone who had a vision. Sound familiar?

mate in another thread you reckoned benitez only cared about lining his own pockets and now you are comparing roberto martinez to a one in a million managerial genius who is a giant figure in the game in england. even the f**king mancs admire shankly.
are you bevvied or something?

No, I am tired though. My points are simple, back when Shankly took over, we took a risk on a manager with no real credentials to his name, he is now a legend. I look at todays supporter and see nothing but "WE DESERVE THE BEST" why do we? What have we done to deserve the best? I saw a comment that Martinez should manage a mid table team first to gain experience. Fine, ok, so what are we? Are we a mid table team?

I do believe we are. We have supporters celebrating Kenny getting us into the UEFA cup whereas a season or two ago we mocked it. Where is the line drawn?

We are a mid table club. Unfortunate events have driven us here. We are nowhere near challenging for our no.19, we are nowhere near challenging for a champions league place, we are nowhere near being a top 4 club. But the way many supporters delude themself as to how we are still a big club is embarrassing. We are what we are, and what we are are a mid table club who is in no position at all to demand the best.

the league position means nothing in the short term, when united finished 11th and 13th under ferguson where they a mid table club? manchester united were still the biggest club in england when they were in the second division mate.
your comparison to shankly is absolutely ridiculous, why doesnt the same thing happen all the time? if it was just a question of appointing a young up and coming manager why hasnt shankly`s feats here been replicated over and over and over again at other clubs?
do you think martinez is the first young up and coming manager since shankly or something?
there`s been hundreds of them, and loads of them were a lot more impressive than martinez, look at mike walker at norwich, took over them when they just missed out on being relegated and took them to a 3rd place finish in the league, they even knocked bayern munich out of the uefa cup and gave a good account of themselves against inter milan, his side played great attacking football and he looked a great manager, what happened? everton signed him and he was a disaster there, i think they won 1 game in 3 months or something and sacked him.
more recently there was george burley at ipswich, took them over when they were in the second division and took them up into the prem, then he finished 5th in the league and qualified for the uefa cup, he won manager of the year and was being called a protege of bobby robson etc next minute he`s fighting relegation and sacked.
there`s loads of examples, even as young up and coming managers at small clubs go martinez`s record is unremarkable if not poor, paul jewell and steve bruce took wigan higher than martinez.
martinez`s big attributes seem to be PR and being media friendly and those 2 attributes have helped him convince people that he is better than he actually is.

Sh.it it gets dafter by the day on here !!

Octsky » Wed May 23, 2012 5:40 am wrote:
when Shankly took over us, we were a small club, small club appointing a lesser known manager is the norm.
after calming down...and peeling off all the glamorous tag of avb being the next top young manager, i think martinez has more experience than avb. martinez overachieved with a team of nobody. avb underachieved with a team of stars.

martinez has never over achieved in his life, thats my point, the likes of mike walker took a norwich side at the bottom of the league to 3rd and into the uefa cup where they beat bayern munich and gave inter milan a scare, george burley took ipswich out of the second division to 5th in the league and the uefa cup, graham taylor took watford up 3 divisions to finish 2nd in the league and took them to the f.a cup final back in the days when they were huge showpiece events.
martinez never over achieved at swansea, he got them to the play off`s once where they conceded 6 against blackpool, someone else actually came after him and did better. his record at wigan is the same, paul jewel and steve bruce did the same (i.e kept them in the division) but even better, and jewel took them up and took bradford up too.
never mind 2nd, 5th and 3rd and uefa cups and f.a cups even if he was getting them to 10th i could maybe, maybe just about see what people where trying to say but all he is doing is just about keeping them in the division.

               the league position means nothing in the short term, when united finished 11th and 13th under ferguson where they a mid table club?                   

"Different game back then mate"