Liverpool FC Forum

Reg » Tue May 22, 2012 4:50 am wrote:Don't forget Rafa was under ENORMOUS pressure from the bastard-faced owners, thats what cracked him in the end. You can't take the events of that period out of the overall understanding of the affect it had on Rafa, the team, the club and the supporters.

Otherwise his path to success was fairly typical when you look at Maurice at Chelsea or Mancini at Citeh, buy lots of players, some fail/some succeed, build a core team and drive forward. Has Mancini's handling of Tevez been any better, has AVB's relations with the players been any different? The world is full of pima donnas these days etc..

Our biggest grip was rotation ffs... is that all, we were spoiled without realising it!

I'd give me a hard slap across the face - twice in fact to tell him he's not in charge and to focus on 'coaching the team' (haha do you remember all that sh!t?!) and I'm pretty sure 2nd time round he'd understand and accept it having had plenty of time to learn from his mistakes.

I'd take him back under controlled circumstances and  would far prefer him to a Martinez, Swansea, O'Neill style of character. The lad has more kwality in his little toe than Marrinez will ever have.

And whats more, it'll pi$$ Lakes off no end....

The fear of the unkown is what scares most people into beleiving Benitez
will be the right choice.

Some Liverpool fans just want to wrap themselves in the Liverpool comfort
blanket and dream of the best moments in a nostalgic haze, whilst the world
around them is awake and taking brave and important decisions to move their
clubs forward.

If you want to keep going back to old flames then we might as well just pack
in bothering and shut the shop down before it falls down.

We have to change and thats the idea, to drag the club up from slumber in a
root and branch reform of the whole operation and Benitez cannot and surely will
not be any part of that process.

Can we stop showing ourselves up over Rafa, honestly this whole love is blind thing
is an embarrasment now.

When you're a small club you can afford to gamble.
When you're a medium sized club, you bring in a steady hand.
When you're a 5 times european cup winning desparately trying to hang onto top class status you have to bring in the best.

This isn't a happy-clappy boy scout jamboree, this is crisis time at Anfield.

We need a new manager, a couple of key expensive players and a new stadium.

If you feel embarrassed by it mate then go curl up into the foetal position and suck your thumb.

Parchpea

People want Rafa back because of his record - no other reason.

His CV fits exactly what FSG want - a manager to get you CL football. It's nothing to do with nostalgia or live or any other ***** - it is his record as a manager

[quote="Octsky » Tue May 22, 2012 5:06 am"[

if kevin keegan isnt out of the game so long i will give him a shot. he prove himself over the years with attacking football only shortfall is he quit easily too often.[/quote]

have we really fallen that much that some fans are even willing to contemplate this.

RED BEERGOGGLES » Mon May 21, 2012 9:42 pm wrote:

Kenny Kan » Mon May 21, 2012 9:20 pm wrote:Maybe they're turning us down because they think Rafa deserves the chance.

At this rate, he'll be the only one left who'd jump at the chance.

It just has to be Benitez mate  , especially with Boas bottling it, and seemingly content to sit at home dithering in his designer slippers.

Poetic. Like it.

Benny The Noon » Tue May 22, 2012 9:40 am wrote:Parchpea

People want Rafa back because of his record - no other reason.

His CV fits exactly what FSG want - a manager to get you CL football. It's nothing to do with nostalgia or live or any other ***** - it is his record as a manager

I think you will find it was easier to CL football when Rafa was last here, no Man City or Spurs. it used to be the big 4, now its the big 6

killerp » Tue May 22, 2012 3:17 am wrote:
This is what I remember under Rafa:

Good:

Istanbul - CL
FA CUP
Signing, Alonso, Mascherano, Reina, Torres
We had a better fighting mentality in the first few years


Bad:

Rotation - Random lineups
Bad man management
Needs large investment to start working
Forcing out Alonso and replacing with an Injured Aquilani
A plenthora of failed signings - list is too long
Building hopeless dependency into the team on Gerrard (and Torres when he was good)
He cannot work within a team and demands total control
Towards the end he lost the dressing room and reached an all time low dropping out of the CL

The bad outweighs the good.

I'd give another manager a shot.

the good was that he had us competing with the biggest and richest clubs in the world when we had no right to do so, dont people understand when benitez took over we were f**king skint!!
near enough as soon as benitez arrived at the club the very people who convinced him to join LFC said we have got no more money we have to sell up.
from the mid 90`s to the end of houlliers reign moores was spending money on transfers trying to keep pace with the uniteds and arsenals but those 2 clubs had the CL places stitched up for themselves during that period, in those days only 2 teams qualified. every year that went by they got massively richer and we got poorer, it`s no wonder moores ended up skint.
when benitez arrived united were calling themselves the biggest club on the planet, they were the first club worth a billion pounds, and abramovitch had turned chelsea into the richest.
why do you think the likes of gerrard and owen, 2 lads who had come through the ranks here, wanted out? they thought we were a busted flush, they said they wanted to win medals and they didnt think liverpool was in a position to do so.
a lot of managers in benitez`s position would have panicked, they would have thought to themselves what have i let myself in for here? but he didnt, he did the opposite.
the way he calmly said losing owen wasnt a big problem in a press conference had me convinced he wasnt the full shilling, i clearly remember thinking to myself `he`s not all there this fella, you`ll get a f**king shock mate, owen was the only person at the club who knows where the net is` but it was me who got the shock, i couldnt believe that anyone could compete against clubs with top managers and huge resources with basically one hand tied behind his back, but benitez did.
if roy hodgson would have joined this club after houllier went we would be finished now, those CL finals and that second place finish beating united 4-1 in the process put us back in everyones mind as a giant club again.
half of your negatives against benitez are baloney, you mention rotation, ferguson rotated more than benitez, you mentioned failed signings? he was trying to find low price players to compete with clubs who were spending more money than any other clubs in the history of the game, cant you see that?
if benitez was managing chelsea at the time and not us do you think he`d be signing ngog for 1.5m and soto for 1m?

damjan193 » Tue May 22, 2012 2:27 am wrote:

fivecups » Tue May 22, 2012 1:53 am wrote:This is my pick: Marcelo Bielsa.

I think we should go all out for him. I'm actually surprised so many are keen to have Rafa back, I don't remember him having that many backers when he departed last time.

Yeah, and he should bring Llorente, Munain and Javi Martinez with him

Absolutely 

Rafa when he came, at his peak, was able to bring Alonso, Garcia, Reina and Torres over.

Out of nowhere, Louis Van Gaal, 3rd Favourite, Generally 6/1.
Great CV!!!


ARTICLE..Louis Van Gaal odds Slashed for Vacant Liverpool Job

"Van Gaal is an avid promoter of attacking football, educated in the best traditions of the Total Football by Ajax and the Dutch national team of the 1970s. As a coach he is known as a slow starter who frequently finds his players needing ample time to grasp his tactics and intent of play. Generally his teams gather results in the second or third season under his coaching, an exception being the 2009–10 season when he grasped the German Bundesliga title and lost the UEFA Champions League final with FC Bayern Munich. During several periods in his career, Van Gaal has had his troubles with the media. He is known to be very blunt with media representatives he perceives to be asking him 'stupid' questions."

Bermenstein » Tue May 22, 2012 9:20 pm wrote:Out of nowhere, Louis Van Gaal, 3rd Favourite, Generally 6/1.
Great CV!!!

Do us a favour, mate. Go and type 'koptalk' into the search bar at the top right of your screen and see what it comes up with. Have a good look. 

That Ancelloties odds have   gone in

Reg » Tue May 22, 2012 5:50 am wrote:Don't forget Rafa was under ENORMOUS pressure from the bastard-faced owners, thats what cracked him in the end. You can't take the events of that period out of the overall understanding of the affect it had on Rafa, the team, the club and the supporters.

Otherwise his path to success was fairly typical when you look at Maurice at Chelsea or Mancini at Citeh, buy lots of players, some fail/some succeed, build a core team and drive forward. Has Mancini's handling of Tevez been any better, has AVB's relations with the players been any different? The world is full of pima donnas these days etc..

Our biggest grip was rotation ffs... is that all, we were spoiled without realising it!

I'd give me a hard slap across the face - twice in fact to tell him he's not in charge and to focus on 'coaching the team' (haha do you remember all that sh!t?!) and I'm pretty sure 2nd time round he'd understand and accept it having had plenty of time to learn from his mistakes.

I'd take him back under controlled circumstances and  would far prefer him to a Martinez, Swansea, O'Neill style of character. The lad has more kwality in his little toe than Marrinez will ever have.

And whats more, it'll pi$$ Lakes off no end....

My biggest gripes were not so much rotation, but his own stubbornness which led us to losing some brilliant players. Peter Crouch scored goals, so what did Rafa do? drop him, Xabi Alonso was one of our best passers, indeed, the best passer in the game, he tried to offload him to get Barry. He signed Robbie Keane, played him until he started scoring, and once he did, he dropped him. He subbed Gerrard in a derby game against Everton as he was too enthusiastic. He let Steve Finnan and Arbeloa go replacing them with £17 million Glenn Johnson. He held the players and the club to ransom with the contracts, nobody signs a new one until he does. And once he did, well, we all know what happened next.

I accept he was working under owners who were the most despicable, but to imply he had no control over events is bullsh!t, he had enough control, he had the players, but his stubborn nature weakened the team.

This is my gripe with Rafa. He isnt the god people are making him out to be.

Kharhaz » Tue May 22, 2012 11:07 pm wrote:

Reg » Tue May 22, 2012 5:50 am wrote:Don't forget Rafa was under ENORMOUS pressure from the bastard-faced owners, thats what cracked him in the end. You can't take the events of that period out of the overall understanding of the affect it had on Rafa, the team, the club and the supporters.

Otherwise his path to success was fairly typical when you look at Maurice at Chelsea or Mancini at Citeh, buy lots of players, some fail/some succeed, build a core team and drive forward. Has Mancini's handling of Tevez been any better, has AVB's relations with the players been any different? The world is full of pima donnas these days etc..

Our biggest grip was rotation ffs... is that all, we were spoiled without realising it!

I'd give me a hard slap across the face - twice in fact to tell him he's not in charge and to focus on 'coaching the team' (haha do you remember all that sh!t?!) and I'm pretty sure 2nd time round he'd understand and accept it having had plenty of time to learn from his mistakes.

I'd take him back under controlled circumstances and  would far prefer him to a Martinez, Swansea, O'Neill style of character. The lad has more kwality in his little toe than Marrinez will ever have.

And whats more, it'll pi$$ Lakes off no end....

My biggest gripes were not so much rotation, but his own stubbornness which led us to losing some brilliant players. Peter Crouch scored goals, so what did Rafa do? drop him, Xabi Alonso was one of our best passers, indeed, the best passer in the game, he tried to offload him to get Barry. He signed Robbie Keane, played him until he started scoring, and once he did, he dropped him. He subbed Gerrard in a derby game against Everton as he was too enthusiastic. He let Steve Finnan and Arbeloa go replacing them with £17 million Glenn Johnson. He held the players and the club to ransom with the contracts, nobody signs a new one until he does. And once he did, well, we all know what happened next.

I accept he was working under owners who were the most despicable, but to imply he had no control over events is bullsh!t, he had enough control, he had the players, but his stubborn nature weakened the team.

This is my gripe with Rafa. He isnt the god people are making him out to be.

Oh he is to me  Kharhaz mate , but you know that .

ONE  for opening his mouth and letting us know what them 2 bas,tards were about
TWO , in the time he was here we had 2 champions league finals , finished 2nd , 1 fa cup final , and built up a fabulous academy , he brought Kenny back , apart from his last season when all the roof was caving in around him , and the whoppers on the phoneins went into overdrive id say he done ok wouldnt you , forget about players coming an going and why there supposed to have gone an not gone, he was fu.cking driven out mate and thats a fact

I know that Sandra, I also know how much you loved Alonso. I look at the great things he did, and the bad things he did. I look at our situation now and think, he wouldn't be a good choice. We should move on.

Kharhaz » Tue May 22, 2012 11:07 pm wrote:

Reg » Tue May 22, 2012 5:50 am wrote:Don't forget Rafa was under ENORMOUS pressure from the bastard-faced owners, thats what cracked him in the end. You can't take the events of that period out of the overall understanding of the affect it had on Rafa, the team, the club and the supporters.

Otherwise his path to success was fairly typical when you look at Maurice at Chelsea or Mancini at Citeh, buy lots of players, some fail/some succeed, build a core team and drive forward. Has Mancini's handling of Tevez been any better, has AVB's relations with the players been any different? The world is full of pima donnas these days etc..

Our biggest grip was rotation ffs... is that all, we were spoiled without realising it!

I'd give me a hard slap across the face - twice in fact to tell him he's not in charge and to focus on 'coaching the team' (haha do you remember all that sh!t?!) and I'm pretty sure 2nd time round he'd understand and accept it having had plenty of time to learn from his mistakes.

I'd take him back under controlled circumstances and  would far prefer him to a Martinez, Swansea, O'Neill style of character. The lad has more kwality in his little toe than Marrinez will ever have.

And whats more, it'll pi$$ Lakes off no end....

My biggest gripes were not so much rotation, but his own stubbornness which led us to losing some brilliant players. Peter Crouch scored goals, so what did Rafa do? drop him, Xabi Alonso was one of our best passers, indeed, the best passer in the game, he tried to offload him to get Barry. He signed Robbie Keane, played him until he started scoring, and once he did, he dropped him. He subbed Gerrard in a derby game against Everton as he was too enthusiastic. He let Steve Finnan and Arbeloa go replacing them with £17 million Glenn Johnson. He held the players and the club to ransom with the contracts, nobody signs a new one until he does. And once he did, well, we all know what happened next.

I accept he was working under owners who were the most despicable, but to imply he had no control over events is bullsh!t, he had enough control, he had the players, but his stubborn nature weakened the team.

This is my gripe with Rafa. He isnt the god people are making him out to be.

well lets go through your points, first one, when rafa first signed crouchie he was initially seen as a joke figure and rafa got lambasted by the media and some fans but peter turned into a cracking player for us, rafa signed him from relegated southampton and he ended up an england international.
the problem for crouchie was that we then signed fernando torres who then struck up a great partnership with steven gerrard. when crouchie left he wrote an article in the echo thanking the fans for sticking by him at the start when things werent going well, he said he knows he will never play for a better club but at his age and with him wanting to be an england regular he had to move club, he said if he was 24 he`d stay but he was 28, he also said if he was rafa benitez he`d pick torres and gerrard every week too, he said every manager would so he`s got no complaints about that.
rafa f**ked up with alonso but it wasnt over gareth barry, rafa only looked to sign barry when he knew his relationship with alonso was falling apart. the fall out happened when alonso`s missus was in hospital in labour and alonso naturally wanted to be there with her, that night we had a huge CL tie away at inter milan in the knock out stages, alonso refused to go and lucas took his place in the midfield, we ended up winning 1-0 anyway with a torres goal.
benitez was fuming though that alonso basically disobeyed him. rafa should have realised that alonso wasnt a bolshy player and it was understandable that he wanted to be there with his missus but rafa couldnt get over the fact he`d told alonso to be on the plane to milan and he just didnt turn up.
in truth though this happens at all clubs, managers fall out with players, it`s just a part of footy, how many big name players has ferguson fell out with over the years?
the gerrard one in the derby we won the game and it does no harm to knock a star name down a few pegs every now and again, we bought glen johnson for that amount because portsmouth said to us look you are not getting your crouch money, we are going under and if you give us 5m or so we`ll give you glen and call it quits. johnson has been an excellent signing in my eyes anyway.
the robbie keane signing obviously wasnt his and he did act a bit of a divvy hanging robbie out to dry to make a point to his superiors but at the time he was involved in a war behind the scene`s with a regime that left us one day away from going under.