Liverpool FC Forum

by **andy_g** » Mon Jan 09, 2012 3:07 pm

dawson99 wrote:So on tv, when everyone always say italians are chickens, and french people have bad hygeine.. whats that?

or how about when people say murderers, or bin dippers, or thieving scousers?

by **supersub** » Mon Jan 09, 2012 4:04 pm

SouthCoastShankly wrote:I'm as sick and tired of over politically correct judgements as anyone but where I do draw the line is to discriminate a person based on an aspect of their person they have no control over (race, ethnicity, etc). It's easy to say "i wouldn't be offended if i was called a white ... whatever" when you have lived in a society where you aren't discriminated against.

so to discriminate against hair loss,hair colour,skin aflections,nose size ,sight impairment etc, all things that no person has any control over, need to be addressed..

perhaps we need to add scouse,geordie,brummie,cockney etc...I'm sure these minorities have suffered discrimination too

by **RichardLFC1** » Mon Jan 09, 2012 4:27 pm

supersub wrote:
SouthCoastShankly wrote:So we can all be "cunts" but the moment you make a distinction with race (i.e. black cunt), the assumption is only the black race are cunts.

It depends if you see black as a race or as an adjective
to describe the person you see before you when using the insult....baldy,fat,skinny,ugly,spotty,geeky,ginger,white,
four eyed etc..

by **maguskwt** » Mon Jan 09, 2012 4:36 pm

let's not argue about racism among each other... instead everyone can agree on the fact that the FA is an ignorant and sanctimonious group of people and that Suarez was not proven to be racist and is not a racist but was a victim of a witch hunt...

by **Greavesie** » Mon Jan 09, 2012 5:06 pm

I don't think there's much of an argument going on, its a really interesting debate imo

I had to laugh when loads of black footballers came out condemning the racism in football issue, all of the quotes from thse footballers were taken from when they spoke....

...at the black footballers awards...

I'm with Dawson on this, if a film came out tomorrow saying black guys can't swim or something, I'd expect society to cringe and a lot to condemn, and quite frankly, I wouldn't understand why

by **SouthCoastShankly** » Mon Jan 09, 2012 6:14 pm

supersub wrote:
SouthCoastShankly wrote:I'm as sick and tired of over politically correct judgements as anyone but where I do draw the line is to discriminate a person based on an aspect of their person they have no control over (race, ethnicity, etc). It's easy to say "i wouldn't be offended if i was called a white ... whatever" when you have lived in a society where you aren't discriminated against.

so to discriminate against hair loss,hair colour,skin aflections,nose size ,sight impairment etc, all things that no person has any control over, need to be addressed..

perhaps we need to add scouse,geordie,brummie,cockney etc...I'm sure these minorities have suffered discrimination too

I agree to some extent. But I'm sure if you were a scouser living out of town and you were constantly discriminated based on your birthplace and/or accent it would offend you (eventually?).

Obviously we can be pedantic and classify any aspect of a person as potentially discriminatory. Picking on someone's hair colour may or may not offend someone (depending on their nature). But some aspects like race or ethnicity has historically been the point of focus of some nasty crimes and treatment.

By using race or ethnicity to discriminate within an insult may not be fundamentally based on a racist attitude but it will invoke comparisons and/or stir up offence, solely because of the sensitive history associated with race.

I agree that the likes of John Terry and the idiot in the Kop end shouting abuse may not be inherently racist but by using race to discriminate (even within an argument) you instantly have questions asked as to your motives for using the word.

by **supersub** » Mon Jan 09, 2012 6:14 pm

maguskwt wrote:let's not argue about racism among each other... instead everyone can agree on the fact that the FA is an ignorant and sanctimonious group of people and that Suarez was not proven to be racist and is not a racist but was a victim of a witch hunt...

I don't believe anyone is argueing about racism. I think its a subject that has been given the taboo status for far too long. I would actually welcome an honest and open debate in this country that defines what is real racism and what is more akin to the age old practice of name calling...don't misunderstand me by the way...words like c**n,n****r,s***o,w*g etc have no place in any society but when accepted words like coloured and black are then frowned upon and any one who uses them are pilloried and persecuted as if they are draped in the white sheet of a klu klux klan member..

Alan Hansen is a case in point......

Evra and the FA declared Suarez was not a racist and yet the media have condemned him to be one....

Oliver Holt questions whether the videoed comments by John Terry are in fact racist and yet he has villified a liverpool supporter for an alleged similar comment without any clear evidence.

At the moment this thread is plodding along peacefully and long may it do so

by **Greavesie** » Mon Jan 09, 2012 6:17 pm

Alan Hansen is a case in point......

Evra and the FA declared Suarez was not a racist and yet the media have condemned him to be one....

Oliver Holt questions whether the videoed comments by John Terry are in fact racist and yet he has villified a liverpool supporter for an alleged similar comment without any clear evidence.

At the moment this thread is plodding along peacefully and long may it do so

some of these cases stem from people being unable to separate the football issue from the policy one. I've had countless people condemn me for defending Suarez and accuse me of doing so purely because I support Liverpool, as if from then on my views count for nothing

by **supersub** » Mon Jan 09, 2012 6:21 pm

SouthCoastShankly wrote:But some aspects like race or ethnicity has historically been the point of focus of some nasty crimes and treatment.

and the crimes and treatment that was suffered has been universally condemned as racially motivated and appalled by right and moral thinking people.

by **LFC2007** » Mon Jan 09, 2012 6:39 pm

SouthCoastShankly wrote:It's easy to say "i wouldn't be offended if i was called a white ... whatever" when you have lived in a society where you aren't discriminated against.

Exactly.

by **Homebooby** » Mon Jan 09, 2012 6:39 pm

So long as people allow themselves to be stigmatized by such comments, a stigma will remain attached to any word that is used. It would be nice to see a world where people feel confident enough to rise above any words used, the example given about the bloke saying 'I'm Doug' is the best. Rise above it if you can. I think that this the point a lot of people are making here with regards the usage of words in general. What is offensive to one person is acceptable to another, at what point do you draw the line?

In my opinion the bigger discussion is around discrimination (positive or negative) and that's really where all discussion would be. If so much attention hadn't been given to this idiot, then there wouldn't be anywhere near so much publicity and I personally think we would be better off in general. The person in question would just be viewed by the people around him as an uneducated idiot and that would be the end of it.

Instead we have another media frenzy canvassing the opinion of just about everyone in the country who wasn't there at the time. All of them experts. It bothers me more that the UK seems more pre-occupied with other peoples business than sorting their own out these days. Keep yer beak out and get on with it.

by **LFC2007** » Mon Jan 09, 2012 6:42 pm

dawson99 wrote:So on tv, when everyone always say italians are chickens, and french people have bad hygeine.. whats that?

National stereotypes.

by **Thommo's perm** » Mon Jan 09, 2012 7:29 pm

supersub wrote:
maguskwt wrote:let's not argue about racism among each other... instead everyone can agree on the fact that the FA is an ignorant and sanctimonious group of people and that Suarez was not proven to be racist and is not a racist but was a victim of a witch hunt...

I don't believe anyone is argueing about racism. I think its a subject that has been given the taboo status for far too long. I would actually welcome an honest and open debate in this country that defines what is real racism and what is more akin to the age old practice of name calling...don't misunderstand me by the way...words like c**n,n****r,s***o,w*g etc have no place in any society but when accepted words like coloured and black are then frowned upon and any one who uses them are pilloried and persecuted as if they are draped in the white sheet of a klu klux klan member..

Alan Hansen is a case in point......

Evra and the FA declared Suarez was not a racist and yet the media have condemned him to be one....

Oliver Holt questions whether the videoed comments by John Terry are in fact racist and yet he has villified a liverpool supporter for an alleged similar comment without any clear evidence.

At the moment this thread is plodding along peacefully and long may it do so

There will be no adult debate on racism because nobody has the nerve to even discuss it openly. If you challenge or question you are seen as pro racist.
There is no such thing as racism because we are all the same race. Black people should be complaining that they are being discriminated against by choosing to be seen as different. The decision makers have pushed the issue to an illogical conclusion because it is even more confusing and ineffective than it has ever been.
The FA and the press (along with Man U and the PFA) have created a situation which has set the whole issue back years.

by **supersub** » Mon Jan 09, 2012 7:42 pm

Thommo's perm wrote:There will be no adult debate on racism because nobody has the nerve to even discuss it openly. If you challenge or question you are seen as pro racist.

Unfortunately I agree there will be no proper debate on racism because too offer alternative views will be pilloried as racist and therefore all debate shall end.

by **andy_g** » Mon Jan 09, 2012 8:32 pm

there will be an open and adult debate about it, but not just yet. anti-racism, race awareness, or whatever you want to call it is still a new thing and nobody really knows how to talk about it or resolve it yet. but just like women voting and gay marriage it'll be second nature in a few years time.

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