Liverpool FC Forum

by **Zidane** » Sat Dec 31, 2011 2:30 am

Low on confidence, signs are there though hopefully he can turn it around for us soon Stevie playing will only help.

by **Dalglish** » Sat Dec 31, 2011 2:44 am

7_Kewell wrote:
Dalglish wrote:As for Carroll, he's been with us for 11 months now and with the exception of a couple (and I mean a couple) of games he has been very ordinary at best and plain awful at worse.

He has the touch of a trampoline at times and despite protests from the Pro Carroll camp that we don't play to his strengths it's difficult to see exactly where those strengths lie.

In the air ? Maybe. On the floor ? Most definitly not !

I think we may have been sold a "pig in a poke"

then there's only one person to blame, and it's a tad ironic that a poster with your user name has made this statement...

Hi Kewell,

We were driving the short trip home from Wigan away game last week and talking about Andy Carroll and who exactly pushed for the deal to sign him.

Its easy to forget with the passage of time but Kenny was less than 4 weeks into what was at the time a "Temporary" contract at Liverpool Football Club so it was suggested that maybe KK wasn't the protagonist in the transfer.

It was also suggested that John Henry maybe misjudged the mood and possible reaction of fans to the sale of Torres and sanctioned the panic buy of Carroll from Newcastle to pacify the fans from what he thought would be an outcry ( a serious miscalculation IMO)

So we perhaps have a situation whereby AVB at Chelsea isn't playing Torres because he wasn't his buy (he almost always plays Meireles whom he did buy) and Dalglish isn't playing Carroll because as far as he is concerned he isn't a player he either wanted or bought.

All conjecture I know but something isn't ringing true when the two most expensive signings in British Transfer history aren't playing week in week out.

by **7_Kewell** » Sat Dec 31, 2011 2:49 am

Dalglish wrote:
7_Kewell wrote:
Dalglish wrote:As for Carroll, he's been with us for 11 months now and with the exception of a couple (and I mean a couple) of games he has been very ordinary at best and plain awful at worse.

He has the touch of a trampoline at times and despite protests from the Pro Carroll camp that we don't play to his strengths it's difficult to see exactly where those strengths lie.

In the air ? Maybe. On the floor ? Most definitly not !

I think we may have been sold a "pig in a poke"

then there's only one person to blame, and it's a tad ironic that a poster with your user name has made this statement...

Hi Kewell,

We were driving the short trip home from Wigan away game last week and talking about Andy Carroll and who exactly pushed for the deal to sign him.

Its easy to forget with the passage of time but Kenny was less than 4 weeks into what was at the time a "Temporary" contract at Liverpool Football Club so it was suggested that maybe KK wasn't the protagonist in the transfer.

It was also suggested that John Henry maybe misjudged the mood and possible reaction of fans to the sale of Torres and sanctioned the panic buy of Carroll from Newcastle to pacify the fans from what he thought would be an outcry ( a serious miscalculation IMO)

So we perhaps have a situation whereby AVB at Chelsea isn't playing Torres because he wasn't his buy (he almost always plays Meireles whom he did buy) and Dalglish isn't playing Carroll because as far as he is concerned he isn't a player he either wanted or bought.

All conjecture I know but something isn't ringing true when the two most expensive signings in British Transfer history aren't playing week in week out.

I really, really, want Carroll to work out for us, i think he's the potential to be one of the strongest and greatest stikers in a generation. But it irks me when people blame Andy for being a 35 million quid signing and it's not the player's fault.

If people want to vent their rage over the signing then blame those who signed him, not the player who (until we beat spurs to his signiature) was more than happy to stay at newcastle

by **Dundalk** » Sat Dec 31, 2011 2:52 am

Dalglish, I think he isn't playing every week because he simply isn't good enough. He looks like he can't play football, simple as that. He looks so out of his depth that its beginning to look painfull. He may be good in the air (is he?) But so was Niall Quinn and nobody was ever going to pay 35m or anything like that for him!

by **Dalglish** » Sat Dec 31, 2011 2:59 am

Dundalk wrote:Dalglish, I think he isn't playing every week because he simply isn't good enough. He looks like he can't play football, simple as that. He looks so out of his depth that its beginning to look painfull. He may be good in the air (is he?) But so was Niall Quinn and nobody was ever going to pay 35m or anything like that for him!

I agree with you Dundalk, he isn't good enough at present and Kenny hasn't come in for any criticism for not playing him from the Fans I know and go to the game with because we see (or don't see) anything in his game at present to make it difficult for Kenny to leave him out.

I fully expect Suarez to return for Man City away and Carroll to occupy the bench.

What we were trying to understand was the circumstances in which he was bought in the first place and I wanted to share that.

by **Dalglish** » Sat Dec 31, 2011 3:03 am

7_Kewell wrote:If people want to vent their rage over the signing then blame those who signed him, not the player who (until we beat spurs to his signiature) was more than happy to stay at newcastle

Fair point Kewell :

As far as I can tell I haven't made any judgement on Carroll as a £35 Million player but simply as someone who hasn't played well enough at this standard. To be honest if we had paid £35 Quid I wouldn't be happy given what I have seen so far !

by **dundreamin** » Sat Dec 31, 2011 3:08 am

He,s fooking :censored:

. And you know he is,those backing him take the rose tinted glasses off FFS

by **Dalglish** » Sat Dec 31, 2011 3:14 am

dundreamin wrote:He,s fooking . And you know he is,those backing him take the rose tinted glasses off FFS

Get off the fence lad

by **LFC2007** » Sat Dec 31, 2011 3:40 am

Not sure tonight really shed any light on the Carroll problem. Again for the most part his ability on the deck in receiving the ball, laying it off and what not left a lot to be desired, while his movement was sluggish and just the opposite of incisive. With the right delivery though he showed how dangerous he can be in the air. But for that one excellent chance that hit the bar, there were at least two other chances that he completely f'ucked up. The exquisite pass from Gerrard where was clear in on goal and the earlier cross that he couldn't reach. No doubt he lacks the service at times, but he has got to make more of the opportunities presented to him and they can't all be crosses delivered straight onto his head by the likes of Gerrard. Strikers at this level have to have a lot more to their game and we've seen little of it from Carroll.

Also, just one more point about the fee. Why does £35m matter? Not because it's not our money and therefore not our concern, but because it's of consequence to the team if we don't spend it wisely.

by **Tottenham Dave** » Sat Dec 31, 2011 4:18 am

Dalglish wrote:
Tottenham Dave wrote:
redtrader74 wrote:Spurs always throw out stories about who they might bid for, just to keep their pessimistic fans happy. Even if there was a bid, the 'sources' said it was £23m at most, but we paid £35m FFS. There wasnt any real competition for andys signature, we clearly made a panic buy and fcked up.

Spurs threw out no stories of the sort.

Mate, Tottenham don't pay 20+ million for players, not yet anyway, and with respect, given this stance there was no way we were going to do it on an unproven Championship player.

If anyone leaked those stories it was NUFC in an attempt to bump the price up.

As for 'pessimistic' Spurs fans.

Not us mate.

Hi Tottenham Dave, welcome to the Forum

Whats the story /rumour regarding Defoe ?

Word is that he "might" be available in January ? Shed any light on that ?

Thank you for your welcome, but I joined 5 years ago!

Defoe?

Weird one.

In my opinion, he's one of the best finishers in the league, and I would hate to lose him.

Presumably you have heard something I haven't about him turning up at Anfield?!?!?!

Well, I doubt he'd go right now, but if he did, and he's probably frustrated by being second string at the mo, he's a class act.

Predator stuff.

Evil finisher.

by **ethanr** » Sat Dec 31, 2011 5:03 am

Carroll did very well when Gerrard came on... Somebody actually giving him something he's capable of using, and he almost scored. That bad touch that rolled to the keeper, it almost seemed he thought he was off and hesitated and it all fell to garbage. But his header of the cross was him using his ability to completely outdo the Newcastle defender, and that's what he's capable of when given the chance.

by **Kerry07** » Sat Dec 31, 2011 5:32 am

No that "bad touch that rolled to the keeper".. is what Glenn Roeder confirmed, he is dreadful on the floor. Touch of a trampoline is a very good description.

There were groans tonight when he missplaced a simple pass.. he is so basic its frightening. Among the worst things i noticed tonight... midway through the first half he passed the ball to Johnson (in midfield) and then turned (slowly as he does) his back on play and jogged up to the penalty box. He wants no part in the build up of play.. "just launch it up to me when i get into the box". This hoofball that caters to the big fella (that Newcastle ended when he left) will drag us down. A pass and move possession game of incisive build up, and interchanging of play... this is alien to his basic "on me head son" which is why we deteriorate when he is on the field. So basically we have to sacrifice everything that makes us good (the performance at Fulham last season).. abandon that, and play a direct hoofball game that wins nothing. Quality teams, such as Spurs who have done so twice against this, will pass us to death.

by **devaney** » Sat Dec 31, 2011 7:41 am

Kerry07 wrote:No that "bad touch that rolled to the keeper".. is what Glenn Roeder confirmed, he is dreadful on the floor. Touch of a trampoline is a very good description.

There were groans tonight when he missplaced a simple pass.. he is so basic its frightening. Among the worst things i noticed tonight... midway through the first half he passed the ball to Johnson (in midfield) and then turned (slowly as he does) his back on play and jogged up to the penalty box. He wants no part in the build up of play.. "just launch it up to me when i get into the box". This hoofball that caters to the big fella (that Newcastle ended when he left) will drag us down. A pass and move possession game of incisive build up, and interchanging of play... this is alien to his basic "on me head son" which is why we deteriorate when he is on the field. So basically we have to sacrifice everything that makes us good (the performance at Fulham last season).. abandon that, and play a direct hoofball game that wins nothing. Quality teams, such as Spurs who have done so twice against this, will pass us to death.

Ffs Kerry give it a fkg rest.I would hardly call the brilliant balls that Gerrard played into Carroll hoofball to use your terminology.The lad got himself into some excellent positions and when he eventually got some service he was very unlucky not to score.I have suggested that his presence in the team has a negative effect.I still think to a minor extent that is possibly the case but last night there were several players that were worthy of some heavyweight criticism before Andy.I'm not a fan but you are a joke mate.The lad deserves some credit for his performance last night.I DON'T KNOW HOW YOU CALL YOURSELF A SUPPORTER. I also find the times of your post interesting?

?

??? Were you p.issed

?

?

The midfield and team selection last night nearly lost us the game. Henderson only livened up when Gerrard came on and his ball to Gerrard for his goal was impressive but it was about the only thing he did in the match.Just cannot understand why he starts so many matches especially on the wing.Adam in the main was very poor.Downing was utterly useless.Spearing was fkg dangerous and lucky not to be sent off.Why Kuyt and Maxi didn't start is beyond me.If it hadn't been for Gerrard we probably would have lost.

by **Kerry07** » Sat Dec 31, 2011 7:55 am

devaney wrote:
Kerry07 wrote:No that "bad touch that rolled to the keeper".. is what Glenn Roeder confirmed, he is dreadful on the floor. Touch of a trampoline is a very good description.

There were groans tonight when he missplaced a simple pass.. he is so basic its frightening. Among the worst things i noticed tonight... midway through the first half he passed the ball to Johnson (in midfield) and then turned (slowly as he does) his back on play and jogged up to the penalty box. He wants no part in the build up of play.. "just launch it up to me when i get into the box". This hoofball that caters to the big fella (that Newcastle ended when he left) will drag us down. A pass and move possession game of incisive build up, and interchanging of play... this is alien to his basic "on me head son" which is why we deteriorate when he is on the field. So basically we have to sacrifice everything that makes us good (the performance at Fulham last season).. abandon that, and play a direct hoofball game that wins nothing. Quality teams, such as Spurs who have done so twice against this, will pass us to death.

Ffs Kerry give it a fkg rest.I would hardly call the brilliant balls that Gerrard played into Carroll hoofball to use your terminology.The lad got himself into some excellent positions and when he eventually got some service he was very unlucky not to score.I have suggested that his presence in the team has a negative effect.I still think to a minor extent that is possibly the case but last night there were several players that were worthy of some heavyweight criticism before Andy.I'm not a fan but you are a joke mate.The lad deserves some credit for his performance last night.I DON'T KNOW HOW YOU CALL YOURSELF A SUPPORTER. I also find the times of your post interesting? ? ??? Were you p.issed ? ? ?

The midfield and team selection last night nearly lost us the game. Henderson only livened up when Gerrard came on and his ball to Gerrard for his goal was impressive but it was about the only thing he did in the match.Just cannot understand why he starts so many matches especially on the wing.Adam in the main was very poor.Downing was utterly useless.Spearing was fkg dangerous and lucky not to be sent off.Why Kuyt and Maxi didn't start is beyond me.If it hadn't been for Gerrard we probably would have lost.

You would not be so forgiving had it ended 1-1.. and another draw. Without Gerrard it likely would have done. Their best spell was prior to him coming on.

Your point about midfield extends to the forward line... because it is the forwards who link up with the midfield (or are meant to)... Andy Carroll does none of this. Like i said.. he wants hoofball into the box. This means we are not only a man less (in the build up), but also we get outnumbered in midfield. Quality teams will exploit this and pass us to death, as Spurs have done twice already. If we abandon the pass and move method that every top side use, and become a direct, hoofball side that caters to a limited geordie, we can forget about making any genuine attempts to get back among the elite.

Last night we played against a pretty average team, at home, and the skipper saved us. Given MOTM for 30 minutes work.

by **devaney** » Sat Dec 31, 2011 8:08 am

Kerry07 wrote:
devaney wrote:
Kerry07 wrote:No that "bad touch that rolled to the keeper".. is what Glenn Roeder confirmed, he is dreadful on the floor. Touch of a trampoline is a very good description.

There were groans tonight when he missplaced a simple pass.. he is so basic its frightening. Among the worst things i noticed tonight... midway through the first half he passed the ball to Johnson (in midfield) and then turned (slowly as he does) his back on play and jogged up to the penalty box. He wants no part in the build up of play.. "just launch it up to me when i get into the box". This hoofball that caters to the big fella (that Newcastle ended when he left) will drag us down. A pass and move possession game of incisive build up, and interchanging of play... this is alien to his basic "on me head son" which is why we deteriorate when he is on the field. So basically we have to sacrifice everything that makes us good (the performance at Fulham last season).. abandon that, and play a direct hoofball game that wins nothing. Quality teams, such as Spurs who have done so twice against this, will pass us to death.

Ffs Kerry give it a fkg rest.I would hardly call the brilliant balls that Gerrard played into Carroll hoofball to use your terminology.The lad got himself into some excellent positions and when he eventually got some service he was very unlucky not to score.I have suggested that his presence in the team has a negative effect.I still think to a minor extent that is possibly the case but last night there were several players that were worthy of some heavyweight criticism before Andy.I'm not a fan but you are a joke mate.The lad deserves some credit for his performance last night.I DON'T KNOW HOW YOU CALL YOURSELF A SUPPORTER. I also find the times of your post interesting? ? ??? Were you p.issed ? ? ?

The midfield and team selection last night nearly lost us the game. Henderson only livened up when Gerrard came on and his ball to Gerrard for his goal was impressive but it was about the only thing he did in the match.Just cannot understand why he starts so many matches especially on the wing.Adam in the main was very poor.Downing was utterly useless.Spearing was fkg dangerous and lucky not to be sent off.Why Kuyt and Maxi didn't start is beyond me.If it hadn't been for Gerrard we probably would have lost.

You would not be so forgiving had it ended 1-1.. and another draw. Without Gerrard it likely would have done. Their best spell was prior to him coming on.

Your point about midfield extends to the forward line... because it is the forwards who link up with the midfield (or are meant to)... Andy Carroll does none of this. Like i said.. he wants hoofball into the box. This means we are not only a man less (in the build up), but also we get outnumbered in midfield. Quality teams will exploit this and pass us to death, as Spurs have done twice already. If we abandon the pass and move method that every top side use, and become a direct, hoofball side that caters to a limited geordie, we can forget about making any genuine attempts to get back among the elite.

Last night we played against a pretty average team, at home, and the skipper saved us. Given MOTM for 30 minutes work.

Kerry - go to bed - you're just becoming a boring bitter sad tw.at !!! It's worse than listening to some of my blue mates! Enjoy last night for what it was. A win at Anfield !!!! You seem incapable of looking at the Carroll situation rationally.

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