Liverpool FC Forum

by **supersub** » Tue Dec 13, 2011 4:19 pm

only me wrote:As to our other attacking options...Lets see ,other then Suarez and Bellamy which get priority over all at this stage ,we have Kuyt and Maxi as alternatives to Andy...Do you really think those 2 offer us a much better attacking solution? Kuyt has been useless for quite some time now but still gets the wave in and foresome reason doesn't get the same stick as Andy does ,And Maxi...Well he did score a couple of goals and has some good connection with Suarez but if you measure his contribution through out the WHOLE game ,i would say it is minimal...So having said that is Carrol not a reasonable option to at least get numerous more chances then he got so far . in my book Yes!.

Do you watch the games ....It's obvious you don't attend the games but have you honestly seen any or have you decided to throw your hat in for "Carroll thread WUM of the day" :laugh:

by **only me** » Tue Dec 13, 2011 4:54 pm

supersub wrote:
only me wrote:As to our other attacking options...Lets see ,other then Suarez and Bellamy which get priority over all at this stage ,we have Kuyt and Maxi as alternatives to Andy...Do you really think those 2 offer us a much better attacking solution? Kuyt has been useless for quite some time now but still gets the wave in and foresome reason doesn't get the same stick as Andy does ,And Maxi...Well he did score a couple of goals and has some good connection with Suarez but if you measure his contribution through out the WHOLE game ,i would say it is minimal...So having said that is Carrol not a reasonable option to at least get numerous more chances then he got so far . in my book Yes!.

Do you watch the games ....It's obvious you don't attend the games but have you honestly seen any or have you decided to throw your hat in for "Carroll thread WUM of the day"

Yes i have watched most if not all of Liverpool games thank you very much.

Gotta love your style of argument which is basicly I know it all the rest of you suck a$$...Ok you think Carrol is $*i*e and shouldn't be given any chance I (and others) think he deserves another few chances to say the least.

I hope we can gain something from the lad you are probably satisfied with "Kuyt is a hard worker" for another decade or so...

by **supersub** » Tue Dec 13, 2011 5:52 pm

It's clear Kuyt and our Maxi fit the pattern of play that suits our best attacking options...Carroll certainly does not....perhaps if Kenny &Clarke wanted a Wimbledon approach and re-introduced the long ball tactic,Carroll would get a shirt and he may decide to put in an appearance...you obviously don't appreciate that football is a team sport with contributions from all eleven players.What they actually bring to the team may vary from player to player but together it creates the end result....If you think Kuyt is just a hard worker it is clear you don't have the footballing nous to understand why he is important to our team and successive managers have come to pcik him on a regular basis.....Lucas is another player who has been almost an ever present for the last 3 years but is still given the thumbs down by a few.
Just to set the record straight again...the price has nothing to do with Andy Carroll's lack of ability , work ethic , football intuition...he is all but 23 and is not even a footballer in the making , never mind close to the finished article.........anyone who claims he has been ok or they can see potential is either a WUM or sadly deluded......And when I make such a statement , it doesn't mean I think the managerial appointee January 2010 Kenny Dalglish was instrumental in making the decision of buying Andy Carroll in the same month and therefore he is a tit or whatever else Thommosperm wanted to label Dalglish. It does appear the same members are the most vociferous in support of Andy Carroll as they were for the support for Roy H and the leaders of the Rafa out campaign and the biggest haters of Kuyt Lucas....

by **Ola Mr Benitez** » Tue Dec 13, 2011 5:57 pm

I have seen nearly all this seasons games, Ive been to 4 home games and seen most of the others on TV.

I think the last couple of appearances when he has come off the bench he has looked ok, still room for improvement, but he has always looked for the ball, never gone missing, never hides and has been unlucky not to get on the score sheet.

He is clearly not the finished article, but with some games under his belt and a bit of hard work he could become a valuble member of the squad. I never wrote Lucas off, I never wrote Carra off and I will not write Carroll off. Every player deserves the time and chance to prove themselves and we should be supporting them and give them the confidence that some players need.

It makes me mad when some on here are so quick to call him sh|te so early into his Anfield career. He might not become the player we want but lets give him some support while he is here. He clearly has talent, when he was at Newcastle everyone was talking him up as the next Shearer, lets hope he can improve and prove some wrong here.

Seconds of humble pie anyone?

[B]

by **only me** » Tue Dec 13, 2011 6:31 pm

supersub wrote:It's clear Kuyt and our Maxi fit the pattern of play that suits our best attacking options...Carroll certainly does not....perhaps if Kenny &Clarke wanted a Wimbledon approach and re-introduced the long ball tactic,Carroll would get a shirt and he may decide to put in an appearance...you obviously don't appreciate that football is a team sport with contributions from all eleven players.What they actually bring to the team may vary from player to player but together it creates the end result....If you think Kuyt is just a hard worker it is clear you don't have the footballing nous to understand why he is important to our team and successive managers have come to pcik him on a regular basis.....Lucas is another player who has been almost an ever present for the last 3 years but is still given the thumbs down by a few.
Just to set the record straight again...the price has nothing to do with Andy Carroll's lack of ability , work ethic , football intuition...he is all but 23 and is not even a footballer in the making , never mind close to the finished article.........anyone who claims he has been ok or they can see potential is either a WUM or sadly deluded......And when I make such a statement , it doesn't mean I think the managerial appointee January 2010 Kenny Dalglish was instrumental in making the decision of buying Andy Carroll in the same month and therefore he is a tit or whatever else Thommosperm wanted to label Dalglish. It does appear the same members are the most vociferous in support of Andy Carroll as they were for the support for Roy H and the leaders of the Rafa out campaign and the biggest haters of Kuyt Lucas....

I only "support" andy getting a chance that's it. If he proves me wrong than Thank you and goodby for the lad, I really believe it's too early to judge. I understand your point over the long balls tactics and personally i hate this as well but it is usually used because lack off effective/creative midfield which shouldn't be our case. If our midfield raises it's level of game and live up to expectation their would be no need for long balls.

As to Kuyt ,well he was pretty effective in the beginning but for me he is over the top and is wastefull to an extent he doesn't deserve a place as a starter. Lucas yes ,couldn't stand him and seeing him play in the first years was pure agony ,however i'll admit he had given us a great year till his injury. (I still doubt he could be our anchor in the midfield if we are aiming higher).

As to Carrol potential ,well watching him play in Newcastle ,the goals he scored as well to a small extent in Liverpool at least convinced me he deserves a chance. I do miss Crouch however

by **redtrader74** » Tue Dec 13, 2011 9:09 pm

It's sad to see that a lot of supporters are willing to accept a player that is 'alright', even those who believe Carroll should be given more time can't bring themselves to tell us why, or actually think he will be prolific. Woolly statements like 'he'll do a job for us' 'if he can contribute to getting us where we want to be then he's done well' are just defeatist. The fcking price matters you are supposed to get what you paid for, £35m should mean a player that practically hits the ground ( no pun intended) running, and if he is a Striker, score and make goals.

It matters because we are persisting with him, when if he was cheaper Kenny would be more inclined to sell him, or not bother playing him. Sometimes you get lucky, and get more than you paid for, Torres, Suarez, Reina, Lucas, Alonso but Carroll will never be worth what we paid for him. I feel sorry for him as his style of play doesn't suit what we are trying to achieve, and to purchase a player that doesnt match our methods is amateurish.

by **Kerry07** » Tue Dec 13, 2011 9:10 pm

damjan193 wrote:Well at least Veron was given like what 3 seasons? Carroll has played 20 games for us. One thing is for sure, he shouldn't be a starter at the moment, but no one can be sure whether or not he'll come good for us at some point. As for the price tag, I agree, we got robbed, he was worth at least 10 mil less even in top form.

The difference being is that Veron was a world class player... who had been the stand out player in the Lazio title winning team (in the same era Juventus and Milan were regularly appearing in CL finals). When Veron was bought most people thought that was a great signing...his vision and technique was top class...so he was afforded more time. What people didnt know is that the fast paced nature of English football was not to Veron's liking, and he suffered accordingly.

Andy Carroll has no pedigree, is a 13-15 million pound player (in the currect inflated market)..played in a direct long ball Newcastle side that bypassed midfield, which had Nolan launching it down the middle for him to win flick ons.. and Guiterriez swinging it in from the flanks (this is the direct style of play that Alan Pardew has alluded to that suits the awkward one dimensional big fella). His highlight reels are basically him getting on the end of stuff... there is no pass and move build up, no incisive play cutting open opposing teams. Hes a fish out of water in a fluid, passing team that plays it on the floor.. and is shown up terribly by the likes of Suarez, Maxi, Bellamy and co.

Just read Kenny's comments about our first half against QPR where he lavishs praise on the pass and move style...with Suarez and Maxi at the forefront...and how he won't ever change that methodology. Which again.. only adds to the baffling signing of Andy Carroll.. a player who played in a newcastle team completely alien to this. When he does feature his contrast in style ruins the fluid play, hence we are worse when he's on the field. Him getting the odd goal every now and then (scuffed shot vs Everton, toe poke vs West Brom) is at the cost of us creating and scoring many many more. The contrast between our performance at Fulham last season to this one couldn't be more glaring.

by **Kerry07** » Tue Dec 13, 2011 9:18 pm

redtrader74 wrote:It's sad to see that a lot of supporters are willing to accept a player that is 'alright', even those who believe Carroll should be given more time can't bring themselves to tell us why, or actually think he will be prolific. Woolly statements like 'he'll do a job for us' 'if he can contribute to getting us where we want to be then he's done well' are just defeatist. The fcking price matters you are supposed to get what you paid for, £35m should mean a player that practically hits the ground ( no pun intended) running, and if he is a Striker, score and make goals.

It matters because we are persisting with him, when if he was cheaper Kenny would be more inclined to sell him, or not bother playing him. Sometimes you get lucky, and get more than you paid for, Torres, Suarez, Reina, Lucas, Alonso but Carroll will never be worth what we paid for him. I feel sorry for him as his style of play doesn't suit what we are trying to achieve, and to purchase a player that doesnt match our methods is amateurish.

Agree with this btw.

by **SouthCoastShankly** » Tue Dec 13, 2011 9:19 pm

Obviously the jury is out on Carroll and rightly so as as much as his chances have been limited he should of been making a bigger impact that he has already.

But...

He in my opinion should be given at least one more season and he will, like it or not.

by **Thommo's perm** » Tue Dec 13, 2011 10:13 pm

KK bought him and paid way over the top for him. Panic buy or not, hes wasted Fenways money and our time
If Carroll is not even a footballer in the making then KK is not a manager, whatever he thinks.
It is the fu'ck up of all fu'ck ups
Thanks a million Daglish- thirty Fu*king five of them

by **Kenny Kan** » Wed Dec 14, 2011 12:28 am

edited ..not relevant to the topic

last chance saloon closed...kn***ead

by **Octsky** » Wed Dec 14, 2011 3:03 am

Thommo's perm wrote:KK bought him and paid way over the top for him. Panic buy or not, hes wasted Fenways money and our time
If Carroll is not even a footballer in the making then KK is not a manager, whatever he thinks.
It is the fu'ck up of all fu'ck ups
Thanks a million Daglish- thirty Fu*king five of them

well we dont know if Kenny signed Carroll, remember rafa's i didnt want Keane saga or the "i want a couch they bought me a lamp" at Valencia.

Carlo didnt want Torres and lost his job in the process. i am not 100% that Kenny was fully behind the move.
anyways Kenny has done more for the city, the club and its supporters than you will ever do.. so perhaps you should know your place.

by **killerp** » Wed Dec 14, 2011 6:42 am

redtrader74 wrote:It's sad to see that a lot of supporters are willing to accept a player that is 'alright', even those who believe Carroll should be given more time can't bring themselves to tell us why, or actually think he will be prolific. Woolly statements like 'he'll do a job for us' 'if he can contribute to getting us where we want to be then he's done well' are just defeatist. The fcking price matters you are supposed to get what you paid for, £35m should mean a player that practically hits the ground ( no pun intended) running, and if he is a Striker, score and make goals.

It matters because we are persisting with him, when if he was cheaper Kenny would be more inclined to sell him, or not bother playing him. Sometimes you get lucky, and get more than you paid for, Torres, Suarez, Reina, Lucas, Alonso but Carroll will never be worth what we paid for him. I feel sorry for him as his style of play doesn't suit what we are trying to achieve, and to purchase a player that doesnt match our methods is amateurish.

Top post!

It's very sad that Bellamy who cost nothing looks 10 times the threat of the most expensive player we have ever signed.

Maybe it's not Carroll's fault that we paid so much for him but he is here & chewing up 80,000 pounds a week in wages sitting on the bench while we have a goal drought. Not farking good enough! Crouchy would do a better job!

by **Reg** » Wed Dec 14, 2011 9:07 am

I'm open minded but even I think Kenny has either got to commit to the player and play him or if he's not good enough, think about moving him on.

He's far too expensive to have in the reserves bearing in mind the economic climate.

by **devaney** » Wed Dec 14, 2011 9:16 am

killerp wrote:
redtrader74 wrote:It's sad to see that a lot of supporters are willing to accept a player that is 'alright', even those who believe Carroll should be given more time can't bring themselves to tell us why, or actually think he will be prolific. Woolly statements like 'he'll do a job for us' 'if he can contribute to getting us where we want to be then he's done well' are just defeatist. The fcking price matters you are supposed to get what you paid for, £35m should mean a player that practically hits the ground ( no pun intended) running, and if he is a Striker, score and make goals.

It matters because we are persisting with him, when if he was cheaper Kenny would be more inclined to sell him, or not bother playing him. Sometimes you get lucky, and get more than you paid for, Torres, Suarez, Reina, Lucas, Alonso but Carroll will never be worth what we paid for him. I feel sorry for him as his style of play doesn't suit what we are trying to achieve, and to purchase a player that doesnt match our methods is amateurish.

Top post!

It's very sad that Bellamy who cost nothing looks 10 times the threat of the most expensive player we have ever signed.

Maybe it's not Carroll's fault that we paid so much for him but he is here & chewing up 80,000 pounds a week in wages sitting on the bench while we have a goal drought. Not farking good enough! Crouchy would do a better job!

I could do a better job !!

January is the wrong time to buy very expensive players. CL commitments, end of season bonuses, choices of club for a player to move to and mid season disruption are all valid reasons and I just hope we don't do anything stupid this January.

Thommo - your post about Kenny and Carroll is pathetic nonsense.If we had sold Torres and not replaced him you would have been understandably dismayed with the attitude of Kenny and the owners.Many of us at the time thought that Carroll could turn into a very useful player and that Chelsea had been brilliantly manipulated into paying an outrageous price for a player who was an extreme shadow of his former self and continues to be so. The rumours in yesterday's press suggest that Chelsea will listen to offers of £20m in January for Torres. In my opinion Torres was sold for a minimum of £25m over his market value and I said that at the time.The question of taxation on potential profits is also important if we had simply hung on to the £50m. We could not interest the players we would have liked because we couldn't meet their wage demands or CL football. GROW UP THOMMO - YOU SOUND LIKE A WHINGING TWELVE YEAR OLD!

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