Liverpool FC Forum

[Ade]

I’ve thought a lot about the Burnley tie, as all of us have, and I think the problem – most of the problems in English football – could be solved by scrapping the Champions League.

1. No CL means we wouldn't have to go away to Burnley and ****** all over the reputation of the FA Cup. Our performance and attitude – that it doesn’t matter as much as fourth place and CL entry – is disgraceful. Football is about glory, not bank balances – and if you can’t always win you have to play with the expectation that you will. At the very least, you’ve got to play with pride and passion. We’ve got no divine right to win anything, but if we get to a mindset where we’re playing to exist in the same orbit as the top 3 and nothing else, what’s the point in turning up on a Saturday.

Football is about glory days, great days – May 10th 1986 was one of the greatest days of my life. No one can ever take those images away. The FA Cup is about days like that, days like the mass Parka invasion at Hereford when Ronnie Radford scores against Newcastle, Sunderland fans going mad in 73, even the Mancs at Aston Villa just a couple of years ago. Do we really wanna give up the hope of days like that for 4th spot?


2. The CL is an insult to the real European Cup. It's farcical that the 1999 final was contested between 2 teams that weren't even champions of their own country when they entered the comp - Bayern and ManUre. Typical of ManUre to become, I think, the first non-champions to become European Champions.

And it's not just about THEM - who of us wouldn't feel just a bit embarrassed if (I know it's a long shot) we put a run together, then got a couple of streaky wins and ended up European Champions in May, 15 years after winning our last league title?
It's a joke.

2. The CL also detracts from the World Cup and Euros: this endless European football means that when the international tournaments come round we're only looking at the same players all over again, they're just wearing different kits. It's overkill.

4. Then there’s the Premiership. It pisses me off no end to hear the likes of Ferguson and Keane and even Wenger saying that they expect to win the league, but the CL is the priority. F*** off. The league should always be the priority, the rest is a bonus.

Also, a clear problem over the past few years is that teams who should be challenging for the title tend to consolidate come April and May. They might be 7 points behind the leaders and 3 points ahead of third and fourth place going into late April, so they're tempted to say, right, we could go for broke and the title, but this might leave us open at the back and we could end up blowing our CL qualification. So they don't go all the way to the wire, like Arsenal and us in 1989.
Before the CL, the leading team in the league was pushed all the way. That hasn't always happened over the last few years, IMO, cos teams are too busy keeping their backs covered and tucking in for a CL spot.


5. No CL would mean smaller squads at the top clubs. Without the glamour of the CL, the likes of Man Utd and maybe Chelsea wouldn't be able to ram their bench with top internationals. These players could then be shared out among the lesser/smaller clubs, making them more competitive. I'm not saying players are gonna say, yeah, I'll swap Man Utd for Charlton, but they'll be less keen to sign up for Utd without the CL and if they're looking at a future on the bench.
It's possible that Michael Owen's fallen into this trap at Real.

And with the money, exposure and excitement of the Prem, we'll still attract a load of top players here, CL or no CL.

6. Smaller squads. The whole CL thing led us, under Houllier, to bolster our squad to play on two fronts. This has meant buying a lot of ****** squad players and spending money, say, on three poor signings - Diouf, Diao, Cheyrou - when we could've spent that on one top player - Duff.

Also, a smaller squad is a tighter and more competitive squad. There's a great quote on an LFC DVD by one of our former greats – Alan Kennedy, I think – who said that when he was playing, he hated getting injured, cos no one else in the team would talk to you. It was that competitive.

[hawkmoon269]

Was the Champions League not a stepping stone towards a real European Football League, which they had planned around the same time?

[Sean]

I agree that
1. the champions league has destroyed the domestic league and F.A. cup
2. a knockout competition with champions only is a better format
3. the top players are knackered by the time the world cup / euros are played.

.....however, it is not going to be scrapped.

[Stan Laurel]

Blame UEFA for that and blame FIFA for too many internationals games too like too many Friendly matches.

[Roger Red Hat]

Absolutely fan-bl@@dy-tastic post by Ade. Talk about hitting nails on the head, now I think about, I too think the CL should be restructed and made into a knockout for CHAMPIONS only. Although, I would like to see more money available in our domestic cups though.

Internationals? for me they can bin them. Lots of great players have ruined their careers playing for their country. Johnny Barnes was awesome for his club, but, when he put the England shirt on he couldn't quite pull out the same level of class so he got boo'ed & dubbed as cr@p. Same happened to many more.

Good post Ade.

[Big Niall]

Must fans would prefer to see Juventus come to Anfield than Rochdale. With the "TV age" people want to see the best.

I think the knock out stage of the champions league is great. i think it doesn't matter that more than one team from each country is in it.

I think international friendlies should be scrapped, you know who your first eleven is and the games are a joke now anyway.

Club football is now more important than international football, how many northerners used to go to Wembley.

CL is a great tournament now that they've got rid of the second group stage.

[stmichael]

i love the champions league but i agree that it has been devalued somewhat by the fact that you can now finish fourth in your domestic league, thirty points behind the winners, and still qualify for the competition. this has also meant that the uefa cup has lost all credibility because 80% of the teams in in nowadays are mediocre.

the whole champions league group stage is a complete farce aswell. the champions cup as it used to be, a straight knockout format was much harder to win. now you get teams who lose two or three games in the first group stage but still qualify.

[LFC #1]

perhaps the top 2 could go into the CL and the Fa Cup winner could go into it also, just a suggestion that may bring the prestige back into the Fa Cuop, although you could argue that the prestige should be winning the cup itslef not the added bonus of qualifying for Europe.

[jymbojetset]

perhaps the top 2 could go into the CL and the Fa Cup winner could go into it also, just a suggestion that may bring the prestige back into the Fa Cuop, although you could argue that the prestige should be winning the cup itslef not the added bonus of qualifying for Europe.

Only one answer to that - Wimbledon!

[el_stinger]

I’ve thought a lot about the Burnley tie, as all of us have, and I think the problem – most of the problems in English football – could be solved by scrapping the Champions League.

1. No CL means we wouldn't have to go away to Burnley and ****** all over the reputation of the FA Cup. Our performance and attitude – that it doesn’t matter as much as fourth place and CL entry – is disgraceful. Football is about glory, not bank balances – and if you can’t always win you have to play with the expectation that you will. At the very least, you’ve got to play with pride and passion. We’ve got no divine right to win anything, but if we get to a mindset where we’re playing to exist in the same orbit as the top 3 and nothing else, what’s the point in turning up on a Saturday.

Football is about glory days, great days – May 10th 1986 was one of the greatest days of my life. No one can ever take those images away. The FA Cup is about days like that, days like the mass Parka invasion at Hereford when Ronnie Radford scores against Newcastle, Sunderland fans going mad in 73, even the Mancs at Aston Villa just a couple of years ago. Do we really wanna give up the hope of days like that for 4th spot?


2. The CL is an insult to the real European Cup. It's farcical that the 1999 final was contested between 2 teams that weren't even champions of their own country when they entered the comp - Bayern and ManUre. Typical of ManUre to become, I think, the first non-champions to become European Champions.

And it's not just about THEM - who of us wouldn't feel just a bit embarrassed if (I know it's a long shot) we put a run together, then got a couple of streaky wins and ended up European Champions in May, 15 years after winning our last league title?
It's a joke.

2. The CL also detracts from the World Cup and Euros: this endless European football means that when the international tournaments come round we're only looking at the same players all over again, they're just wearing different kits. It's overkill.

4. Then there’s the Premiership. It pisses me off no end to hear the likes of Ferguson and Keane and even Wenger saying that they expect to win the league, but the CL is the priority. F*** off. The league should always be the priority, the rest is a bonus.

Also, a clear problem over the past few years is that teams who should be challenging for the title tend to consolidate come April and May. They might be 7 points behind the leaders and 3 points ahead of third and fourth place going into late April, so they're tempted to say, right, we could go for broke and the title, but this might leave us open at the back and we could end up blowing our CL qualification. So they don't go all the way to the wire, like Arsenal and us in 1989.
Before the CL, the leading team in the league was pushed all the way. That hasn't always happened over the last few years, IMO, cos teams are too busy keeping their backs covered and tucking in for a CL spot.


5. No CL would mean smaller squads at the top clubs. Without the glamour of the CL, the likes of Man Utd and maybe Chelsea wouldn't be able to ram their bench with top internationals. These players could then be shared out among the lesser/smaller clubs, making them more competitive. I'm not saying players are gonna say, yeah, I'll swap Man Utd for Charlton, but they'll be less keen to sign up for Utd without the CL and if they're looking at a future on the bench.
It's possible that Michael Owen's fallen into this trap at Real.

And with the money, exposure and excitement of the Prem, we'll still attract a load of top players here, CL or no CL.

6. Smaller squads. The whole CL thing led us, under Houllier, to bolster our squad to play on two fronts. This has meant buying a lot of ****** squad players and spending money, say, on three poor signings - Diouf, Diao, Cheyrou - when we could've spent that on one top player - Duff.

Also, a smaller squad is a tighter and more competitive squad. There's a great quote on an LFC DVD by one of our former greats – Alan Kennedy, I think – who said that when he was playing, he hated getting injured, cos no one else in the team would talk to you. It was that competitive.

You have GOT to be JOKING? ?

Scrap the CL (the best club competition in the World) for a pi$$y English Cup competition?? I love the FA cup for its history, but to dump the CL for it is absurd. Grow up mate, we lost a fooking game not our heads.

Deal with it, FA is dead, over, BURY IT..... Fooks sake's,  these ppl.

[Stan Laurel]

Champions's League is good for money for the clubs but I don't like the playing champion's league because I prefer old European Cup with 1st Round like a knockout-stage, because it is more exciting than playing Champion's League. And if we have old European Cup, we would play less football. It is do with money, really.

I didn't like the way of UEFA got rid of European Cup Winner Cup, that should be FA Cup winner to qualify for those European Games, not European Champion's League.

[Ade]

I’ve thought a lot about the Burnley tie, as all of us have, and I think the problem – most of the problems in English football – could be solved by scrapping the Champions League.

1. No CL means we wouldn't have to go away to Burnley and ****** all over the reputation of the FA Cup. Our performance and attitude – that it doesn’t matter as much as fourth place and CL entry – is disgraceful. Football is about glory, not bank balances – and if you can’t always win you have to play with the expectation that you will. At the very least, you’ve got to play with pride and passion. We’ve got no divine right to win anything, but if we get to a mindset where we’re playing to exist in the same orbit as the top 3 and nothing else, what’s the point in turning up on a Saturday.

Football is about glory days, great days – May 10th 1986 was one of the greatest days of my life. No one can ever take those images away. The FA Cup is about days like that, days like the mass Parka invasion at Hereford when Ronnie Radford scores against Newcastle, Sunderland fans going mad in 73, even the Mancs at Aston Villa just a couple of years ago. Do we really wanna give up the hope of days like that for 4th spot?


2. The CL is an insult to the real European Cup. It's farcical that the 1999 final was contested between 2 teams that weren't even champions of their own country when they entered the comp - Bayern and ManUre. Typical of ManUre to become, I think, the first non-champions to become European Champions.

And it's not just about THEM - who of us wouldn't feel just a bit embarrassed if (I know it's a long shot) we put a run together, then got a couple of streaky wins and ended up European Champions in May, 15 years after winning our last league title?
It's a joke.

2. The CL also detracts from the World Cup and Euros: this endless European football means that when the international tournaments come round we're only looking at the same players all over again, they're just wearing different kits. It's overkill.

4. Then there’s the Premiership. It pisses me off no end to hear the likes of Ferguson and Keane and even Wenger saying that they expect to win the league, but the CL is the priority. F*** off. The league should always be the priority, the rest is a bonus.

Also, a clear problem over the past few years is that teams who should be challenging for the title tend to consolidate come April and May. They might be 7 points behind the leaders and 3 points ahead of third and fourth place going into late April, so they're tempted to say, right, we could go for broke and the title, but this might leave us open at the back and we could end up blowing our CL qualification. So they don't go all the way to the wire, like Arsenal and us in 1989.
Before the CL, the leading team in the league was pushed all the way. That hasn't always happened over the last few years, IMO, cos teams are too busy keeping their backs covered and tucking in for a CL spot.


5. No CL would mean smaller squads at the top clubs. Without the glamour of the CL, the likes of Man Utd and maybe Chelsea wouldn't be able to ram their bench with top internationals. These players could then be shared out among the lesser/smaller clubs, making them more competitive. I'm not saying players are gonna say, yeah, I'll swap Man Utd for Charlton, but they'll be less keen to sign up for Utd without the CL and if they're looking at a future on the bench.
It's possible that Michael Owen's fallen into this trap at Real.

And with the money, exposure and excitement of the Prem, we'll still attract a load of top players here, CL or no CL.

6. Smaller squads. The whole CL thing led us, under Houllier, to bolster our squad to play on two fronts. This has meant buying a lot of ****** squad players and spending money, say, on three poor signings - Diouf, Diao, Cheyrou - when we could've spent that on one top player - Duff.

Also, a smaller squad is a tighter and more competitive squad. There's a great quote on an LFC DVD by one of our former greats – Alan Kennedy, I think – who said that when he was playing, he hated getting injured, cos no one else in the team would talk to you. It was that competitive.

You have GOT to be JOKING? ?

Scrap the CL (the best club competition in the World) for a pi$$y English Cup competition?? I love the FA cup for its history, but to dump the CL for it is absurd. Grow up mate, we lost a fooking game not our heads.

Deal with it, FA is dead, over, BURY IT..... Fooks sake's,  these ppl.

A pissy English cup competition? I don't care where you come from mate, but you can't be a Liverpool supporter – if you are I don't know where you can possibly get that attitude from.

The FA Cup is part of our history - great history. Winning the Cup in 74 kicked off our glory years. We won the Double in 86 when it was still an achievement, when teams played most of the season with about 18 players, not a 30-man squad packed with internationals, and it sent every ****** Liverpool fan at Wembley berserk with joy. I was one of them.  Nobody who was there could agree with you.

Nobody who was at Cardiff in 2001 when Owen beat Arsenal would agree with you. No one who saw us capitulate against the Mancs in 96 and hand them the double on a plate would've walked out of that stadium whistling and consoling themselves that it was only a pissy cup competition.

And St Michael got battered earlier for invoking Hillsborough - I think he had a point in implying that that tragedy does mean the club has an emotional tie to the FA Cup that no other club has, and we should respect that.

And the CL a great competition? Do me a favour. You could count the great Champs league games of the past five years on one hand - notably us against Roma at Anfield, Madrid v Utd home and away, and er…. most of the tension is in qualifying then totting up the revenue you get from qualifying and looking at who you're next gonna sign. Look at Italy - Juventus get home gates averaging 8000 for the Champs League - some competition.

Sorry, but we lost more than just a game the other night, we lost a lot of respect – and self-respect. With an attitude like yours you're following the wrong club. Get yourself down to Stamford Bridge mate, i'm sure they've still got room for you.

[Ade]

Blame UEFA for that and blame FIFA for too many internationals games too like too many Friendly matches.

Stan I think Uefa recently admitted that the Champions league is a monster that's now out of control, and they wished they could turn the clock back. Apparently they say they can't - that it's out of their hands.

Makes you wonder what Uefa's job is really. If they're worried the G14 will form a breakaway league, bring it on - this idea of a European Super League would have a shelf life of about five years. fans would get sick of playing Milan, Madrid and Leverkusen week in week out - the novelty would burn up quick, the tribal passion aint there, and the expense would mean you couldn't follow your team on a regular basis. It's franchise football for the TV and it would bomb. again, look at the crowds for the CL in Italy - it's abysmal.

Look at the signs of revival in crowds in the Football League. a lot of that is cos of the affinity fans are feeling again for their local clubs, British players, and the alienation they feel from the money-soaked Prem.

You need pride in football – pride comes from roots, history and rivalry. The CL offers little in that respect.

[Fowler_E7]

the champions league will never be returned to it's original format, the big clubs (G14) will never accept that, and talk of a european super league will resurface.

[The_Rock]

Uefa created a monstar they can't destroy. Its a sad day when team consider finishing 4th better than winning the FA cup.....but this how modern football has evolved to.

The Uefa cup is also suffering due to champions league. Nobody gives a sh1t to it (although winning it in 2001 was gr8)