Liverpool FC Forum

[bigmick]

With the talk that we're in for a striker (which obviously we need) and the talk of it being Carlton Cole (good move IMHO) are we about to see another attempt to shoehorn a strike partner in alongside Torres? Alternatively, are we going to give Babel plus 7 million or whatever it will be for a bloke we are going to sit on the bench until Torres gets injured? If that is the plan, how will we reconcile the obvious fact that Cole is a completely different type of player to Torres?

My view is that so far Torres hasn't played that well with any partner, be it David Villa or any of the ones we've tried him with. He obviously plays well with Gerrard in behind him, but the difficulties are that the pairing can be cut off from the rest of the team, and that if either gets injured we are fecked.

I've got a feeling that Roy is longer term maybe looking to play a 4-4-2 in a lot of matches, and sees a Carlton Cole type, or a Peter Crouch type as giving the attack an alternative focal point. That would probably see Joey Cole wide left, Gerrard dropping into the centre or wide right and the central midfield being the new blokes and/or Lucas. If that were the case, the squad would look fuller and we'd be less reliable on Torres staying fit, as a Joe Cole or a Jovanoic or even a Pacheco could step in, whereas they couldn't as a lone striker.

At some poin tit's something we are going to have to consider IMHO, given that we can't buy a Torres alternatie and just stick him on the bench. My guess is this is the way Roy is thinking, particularly after his comments about the Toivenan fella "not fitting the profile" (I'm assuming he isn't a target man, I've never seen him play).

[jacdaniel]

4-4-2 doesn't seem to work these days.  Its too easy for teams to out run you in the centre midfield area.  Then the wide players have to try and come inside to help out.  but then the opposition exploit the space out wide.

The players are also a few feet further apart on the field so you need to have personnel who can pass a ball.  (something we sadly lack).  You also need good wingers who can get the ball into the box.

As a result of having no real wingers, been unable to pass well and getting out run in centre mid, i think the 2 forwards will be standing up front like headless chickens.

[Fauxy]

4-4-2 is too predictable and open.

I would only use it against opposition that are gonna park the bus really.

Against Man City they completely took advantage of our 2 man midfield. We couldnt keep the ball or distribute so the 2nd striker was pretty pointless since there was no service.

4-5-1 will work better once we have Raul Meireles because we will have that equal balance between attack and defence.

                                                     Reina

                          Johnson         Carra     Skrtel          Agger

                                        Gerrard             Meireles
                                                 
                             Kuyt                  Cole             Jovanovic

                                                     Torres

Gerrard wont have the sole responsibility of dropping back to distribute because Meireles is an excellent passer.

I think if we were to play 4-4-2 we would need good wingers because we always have two strikers in the box so get enough crosses in and they are bound to score. Problem is Kuyt + Jovanovic are both strikers really.

[ConnO'var]

Mick..... We can still play 4-4-2..... I'd rather we didn't against strong opponents and in Europe though. We'll get overrun in midfield.
If we plan on playing a 2 man strike force..... I'd rather use a 5-3-2 formation.... as antiquated as it is.

We have the personnel for all positions bar 2.... another striker and a decent left wingback.

                     Reina

           Skrtle   Carra   Agger
Johnson                               New guy

           Mereiles         Gerrard
                        Cole

                  Torres  New Guy

May work better than a 4-4-2 I think.......

But honestly..... I don't think Torres can partner up with anybody..

[jacdaniel]

Decent first 11 Fauxy. But id replace Agger with Konchesky and Skrtel with Agger.
Skrtel has looked terrible so far this year...

[mart]

4-5-1 will work better once we have Raul Meireles because we will have that equal balance between attack and defence.

                                                     Reina

                          Johnson         Carra     Skrtel          Agger

                                        Gerrard             Meireles
                                                 
                             Kuyt                  Cole             Jovanovic

                                                     Torres

Gerrard wont have the sole responsibility of dropping back to distribute because Meireles is an excellent passer.

Gerrard really doesnt belong in CM. From what i have seen of Meireles he can fill the "alonso" role. My worry is that we dont have a winger that likes to hug the line and open up the opposing team. Imo thats why we did so well with Riera. Not because he was such a fantastic winger, but because he liked to stay out wide. Our current "wingers" all like to cut inside.


                                Reina

Johnson          Carra/Greek      Agger            Aurelio/New LB


                    Meireles       Poulsen/lucas


Kuyt/Maxi                 Gerrard                   Cole/jovanovic

                              Torres

[Bermenstein]

I think Roy will trust in Gerrard & Meireles to cover the ground needed in going forward and tracking back.
Certainly for home games, if we are going to open up the weaker teams, a 442 formation will need to be adopted.

So the major trick is find a strike partner who fits the profile to play along side Torres.

[matt_liverpool]

There is no need for us to play 4-4-2 even at home. A dynamic midfield of Meireles, Gerrard and Cole is more than enough to cause havoc and open up defenses. Wingers who can cross well and a target man is a basic requirement to succeed in a traditional 4-4-2 formation. As mentioned above, neither do we have wingers and a target man to adopt to traditional 4-4-2 formation, nor do we have forwards like Rooney, Tevez and Berbatov who can not only partner someone but can also come deeper and support our midfield.

Let's analyze some successful 4-4-2 formations:

Tottenham's 4-4-2

Tottenham's 4-4-2 is pretty much a traditional 4-4-2 I just mentioned above. They partner Defoe with either Crouch or Pavlychenko who both are target men. Then have pacy and skillful wingers in Lennon and Bale who are more than capable of putting either good crosses (Lennon's crossing has significantly improved since Harry in charge) or cut inside with trickery. In the midfield they have good passers in Huddlestone and Modric. One of them these two is always paired with destroyer Palacios. So they have very good personnel to play 4-4-2 effectively.

Man Utd's 4-4-2

Man Utd often play 4-4-2 at home but their 4-4-2 is different from a traditional 4-4-2. They rely heavily on off the ball movement and quick short passing with lot of one-twos. Up front is Rooney and Berbatov who both like to come deeper and support the midfield. When they are deeper, mostly other players are up front due to their movement off the ball.

[In and Out]

We could play a 4-4-2 but I'm not so sure we should, not yet anyway. I'm not really one for chopping and changing things around during the season this type of thing should be done during pre-season. I think we should go with what we know and have the players for.

We've got a number of midfielders and a limited number of strikers and at the moment optimising the players at our disposal would surely see us keep our customary system.

I really am in two minds though where Gerrard should play (I've always liked him as a CM) but his partnership and involvement in the final third is the kind of creativity we could do with. The jury is still out for me on Poulson (personally I'm not sure he's got the legs), and I don't know where our new Portuguese fella would slot in best either.

Yet, I'd stick the numbers in midfield and play Torres upfront for the time being and focus on getting the dynamics of the midfield sorted than changing back to a 4-4-2. That's my opinion, Roy may have other ideas.

[damjan193]

I'd give it a try in the 4 - 5 - 1 formation with Gerrard and Meireles in midfield and Cole behind Torres. Although Gerrard was great behind Torres, Cole has the same ability so I would try the Cole - Torres partnership. If that turns out bad (which I doubt) I'd bring Gerrard behind Torres with Poulsen and Meireles in the midfield and Cole will play somewhere wide either on the place of Jovanovic or Kuyt.

With the first one we will have the creativity and a more attacking line up but we may lack a bit in deffense, while with the second we will have a partnership that has proved to be good in the attack and will have both a creativ man who can both get forward and defend and we'll have a man who can defend in the midfield but it will be a big risk to try that one becouse it will be a big change in the midfield and we dont know how both Poulsen and Meireles will adapt in our play and how will they manage their roles in the game. I think that we'll see how good this second type of line up is against Birmingham becouse we'll be forsed to try it.

I think that both are good, but what I wouldnt try is a 4 - 4 - 2 formation. We dont have the players to try that. We have Torres who clearly sucks with another striker with him and we have no wingers who should be the key in bringing the ball to the strikers.

[crim cram]

The problem right now with a 4-4-2 is the forward players we have (other than Torres) seem like wide attacking forwards not true wingers or true strikers - Kuyt, Jovanovic, Babel.  Jovanovic and Kuyt seem especially lost in a 4-4-2 as wingers.  I'm not sure we have the personnel to convert ATM.  Amoo comes to mind as a player who seems to fit the out and out winger role, maybe we'll see this formation fleshed out in the reserves as Roy tries to get the right players in for this formation.  It isn't so much getting the right forwards for this formation its getting proper wingers(KEY).

[jacdaniel]

Regardless of what formation we play now or in the future... i think we can all agree that our squad would benefit from a quality left and right winger.  Won't happen in this window anyways.  But we do need wingers that are strong and have pace and can cross a ball.  Both footed would be a plus.   Then they could also be inverted wingers.

[Bermenstein]

Well if Hodgson finds an ideal partner for Torres, we could be looking at a good attacking Liverpool side at full strength.

I imagine it to be like this, with Poulsen (for Meireles), Kuyt (for Cole/Up Front) and Lucas (for ?) rotating in appropriate positions when resting players.

Babel or Ngog will probably be exiting if Hodge hopefully gets his ideal striking partner for Torres.

But for the away games, I can see him sticking with the 4-5-1. It was a lesson learned after the Man city game, not to be so open through midfield.

I also agree with a poster on this thread, that Skrtel looks a bit of a liability with his tackling. He could have easily had  a penalty awarded against him v's WBA, to add to the 1 he gave away against Man City. Hopefully its just a blip. Maybe Agger will get more of a role as a CB if they get the LB position sorted out by Tuesday's deadline day.

[RedSi35]

I posted up a 4 1 3 2 earlier that imo looked solid.

Reina

Johnson
Carra
Agger
Konchesky

Poulsen

Gerrard
Cole
Meireles

Torres
Jovanovic

With Gerrard playing on the right of a 3, it still gives him that freedom he seems to crave also allowing Cole and Meireles to do their thing.

Dunno about novic up front, but he is always an option, he has done ok on the left, but tbh he isnt a winger in the true meaning of one.

[ethanr]

I think gaining another striker would allow us to play multiple formations.  For instance, When we play man u at old trafford:
               Reina
GJ   Carrag   Skrtel  Agger
            Meireles
Kuyt  Gerrard  Cole  Jova
              Torres




Or, if we where to get Fernando Llorente or Carlton Cole, when we play the lesser teams, like west brom, wigan, even blackburn and everton, we would play:

          Reina
GJ   Carrag  Skrtel  Agger
Kuyt   Gerrard    Jova
         Cole
Torres    Llorente/Cole


Since we are being re-linked with Mario Gomez, he is too talented to ever sit on the bench, so I think we would probably be pairing Torres and him together for most of the games.