Liverpool FC Forum

[Yari7]

To be honest, I don't see him going to another Premiership club.

The only real 2 clubs that he could win the Premiership with are Chelsea and Man Utd. If he was to go to Arsenal, it would be the same case as him staying at Liverpool.He would be with a team who has the potential to win. Now, I don't see Fergie splashing the cash on Gerrard when he pretty much has all his bases covered.

That would leave Chelsea who have the money to buy him. But do they really need Gerrard? They have many midfeilders at the club. Ballack, Essien, Lampard, Makalele. Would Chelsea take Gerrard now and maybe offload one of their other midfeild players. Recently, I hear Abramovich has tightened the strings to the kitty. Would he make an exception for Gerrard?

The other choice is going abroad, but the Premiership has now become the top league in the world. Many players have gone abroad to acheive Champions League success. That is something which Gerrard has done at Liverpool.

While I think Gerrard may not be enntirely happy with the situation at Liverpool, I don't think he has many options now.

[Reg]

Its more likely that Gerrard hasnt matured into the role as well as people hoped.

Emlyn was 100% team orientated and was constantly pushing the team forward and `leading´. Thommo was a natural nark and again was a constant source of encouragement as were Kenny and Souness when they wore the captains armband.

The standard of leadership dropped off with Redknapp and Sami was not an inspiring leader either. You could say that Gerrard got the job by default to keep him at the club and because sami was running out of legs anyway plus there was no one better.

He´s is not a natural leader like Emlyn, nor is he charismatic like Kenny and he´s playing in the wrong position to captain the team (only one other prem captain is a forward).

He needs coaching how to lead the team - seems to me he is always looking to the bench for instructions rather than telling the bench what HE wants.  True leaders know the weaknesses on the field and take their own action rather than waiting for the bench. Gerrard needs to grow up.

[god_bless_john_houlding]

If Gerrard leaves, then I think the league is a further twenty years away.

I think McMahon has a point. I don't think he quite understands where he fits in with Benitez. Whenever a player is shifted out of position it seems to be Gerrard or Carragher and no matter how well these two play they never get praise from Benitez. But Benitez' signings are constantly praised by the manager and/or played in their favoured positions. Dirk Kuyt has been praised publically by Benitez on a few occasions this season, Torres has had praised heeped on him by Benitez and even Mascheranho has been told publically that he is worth every penny of the 18 million we spent. Benitez' words were to this affect after Mascheranho's goal against Reading "Javier's goal today proved that he was worth the money we spent on him. He and Xabi are building up a good relationship in midfield. Javier is a great player for this club"

It's first name terms for the lads from abroad, Mascheranho even calls Benitez, Rafa but for the likes of Gerrard, Carra and Crouch it's much more formal with surnames. I think this sinks down onto the players and they must feel it. This is where I beleive Gerrard to be disallousioned at times with life under Benitez.

I disagree with this.  First, Benitez tends to praise players who are going through a rough patch or who he'd like to see build on their current form. It's not about only praising his own signings, as he's had a lot of praise for the likes of Kewell, Finnan, Sami etc. as well.

As for Gerrard and Carra, they get asked to play out of position on occasion because they have the quality, versatility and mentality to do so.  They always return to their best positions eventually, though, because Benitez recognizes how important they are to the team in those positions.  But, he does also ask others to play out of position too: Kuyt, Babel, Benayoun, Garcia, etc.  He does not give the kid glove treatment to his own signings, in other words.

I didn't say he kept shifting people he didn't sign did I?

I don't know if it's me but he certainly doesn't shift the spanish speaking players around other than Arbeloa. Finnan gets moved to left back when he's obviously a right back, whereas Aurellio has never been moved to the right. Alonso/Mascheranho never get shifted out to the flanks but Gerrard does. Kuyts forced to play everywhere but centre forward whereas Torres is never played out of position.

As for the post earlier where I was asked how I came with this first name lark, from Benitez' interviews mate. When Alonso and Agger were both out with injuries, Benitez said "XABI is very close to returning so is AGGER" or "JAVIER has been performing well of late, so has BABEL" or "FERNANDO is scoring a lot of goals of late but CROUCH will be given a chance in upcoming weeks" Again it seems like the Spanish speaking players are spoke about by their first names. It's more friendly towards them but with the rest of the lads there seems to be a bit more formallity.

[Bad Bob]

If Gerrard leaves, then I think the league is a further twenty years away.

I think McMahon has a point. I don't think he quite understands where he fits in with Benitez. Whenever a player is shifted out of position it seems to be Gerrard or Carragher and no matter how well these two play they never get praise from Benitez. But Benitez' signings are constantly praised by the manager and/or played in their favoured positions. Dirk Kuyt has been praised publically by Benitez on a few occasions this season, Torres has had praised heeped on him by Benitez and even Mascheranho has been told publically that he is worth every penny of the 18 million we spent. Benitez' words were to this affect after Mascheranho's goal against Reading "Javier's goal today proved that he was worth the money we spent on him. He and Xabi are building up a good relationship in midfield. Javier is a great player for this club"

It's first name terms for the lads from abroad, Mascheranho even calls Benitez, Rafa but for the likes of Gerrard, Carra and Crouch it's much more formal with surnames. I think this sinks down onto the players and they must feel it. This is where I beleive Gerrard to be disallousioned at times with life under Benitez.

I disagree with this.  First, Benitez tends to praise players who are going through a rough patch or who he'd like to see build on their current form. It's not about only praising his own signings, as he's had a lot of praise for the likes of Kewell, Finnan, Sami etc. as well.

As for Gerrard and Carra, they get asked to play out of position on occasion because they have the quality, versatility and mentality to do so.  They always return to their best positions eventually, though, because Benitez recognizes how important they are to the team in those positions.  But, he does also ask others to play out of position too: Kuyt, Babel, Benayoun, Garcia, etc.  He does not give the kid glove treatment to his own signings, in other words.

I didn't say he kept shifting people he didn't sign did I?

I don't know if it's me but he certainly doesn't shift the spanish speaking players around other than Arbeloa. Finnan gets moved to left back when he's obviously a right back, whereas Aurellio has never been moved to the right. Alonso/Mascheranho never get shifted out to the flanks but Gerrard does. Kuyts forced to play everywhere but centre forward whereas Torres is never played out of position.

As for the post earlier where I was asked how I came with this first name lark, from Benitez' interviews mate. When Alonso and Agger were both out with injuries, Benitez said "XABI is very close to returning so is AGGER" or "JAVIER has been performing well of late, so has BABEL" or "FERNANDO is scoring a lot of goals of late but CROUCH will be given a chance in upcoming weeks" Again it seems like the Spanish speaking players are spoke about by their first names. It's more friendly towards them but with the rest of the lads there seems to be a bit more formallity.

You and your kooky theories!

The players that Benitez shifts/shifted around are the ones who are able to play multiple positions effectively (or who can be called upon in a pinch).  That list includes Gerrard, Carragher, Arbeloa, Pennant, Benayoun, Finnan, Riise, Aurelio (LB or LM), Kuyt, Babel, Voronin, Kewell, Garcia, Cisse, Zenden, Smicer...  Conversely, there are players who are fundamentally better at their position and thus stay put: Crouch, Torres, Alonso, Masch, Lucas, Hyypia, Skrtel, Agger, Sissoko, Reina, etc.  It's got nowt to do with nationality.

As for the name thing, what a load of tosh:

Liverpool Daily Post, March 1, 2008: “I think Steven can realise his ambitions here, I am sure,” said the Anfield manager. “He is very happy here. His commitment is 100%. You could see this week in every training session he is committed. I think he will be here for a long time. I talk with him about ideas for the future. Steven knows some ideas that we have (about new players). I can’t explain every movement, but our scouts are working hard around the world....Stevie said that to win the Champions League is massive and was the best memory he has had in football,” said the Spaniard. “He thinks it would be a fantastic season if we win the Champions League."

Liverpool Echo, Jan. 15, 2008: "But really you know the players best when you have worked with them because you get to know the mentality and the character and I now know how good Carra is."...And the Reds boss believes the best may still be to come from Carragher.  "In football it is very important for clubs to have people coming through the academy, especially local players, so hopefully the young players at Liverpool will learn from Carra," he said.


Two easy-to-find examples of Rafa using first names/nicknames for Gerrard and Carragher in the local press.  Clearly you are inventing a "problem" that doesn't exist.

[god_bless_john_houlding]

Very clever Bob, but do you ever hear Peter or Jermaine the way you do Xabi or Javier. I've never heard Scott is on loan at Villa whereas Pepe is always mentioned.

Again I don't recall saying that only non-spanish speaking players were the ones who were moved around, but nine times out of ten it is. We've all pretty much accepted that Kuyt and Voronin are centre forwards but neither get given a run in that position yet Torres does. Fair enough Torres is a world class forward and the best in the world but who's to say that he goes on the right wing he doesn't put 5 crosses a game in that Kuyt would bury. No, Benitez has favourites and there the ones who play in their favoured position week in week out. Most of whom seem to be spanish speaking players.

Prime example...Mascheranho gets sent off against United, Benitez is there trying to calm him down, walking him down the tunnel and even defending him in public...Crouch gets sent off against Chelsea, Benitez doesn't look at him, doesn't console Crouch and refuses to comment on the situation.

[66-1112520797]

Well thats where me and you differ yet again.

I would he hate if he did f.uck off, but blame probably not. He has spent the best part of his career here. Being a pivitol figure, while teamates and managers have never got it right as far as the league.

Mercinary ? No dont think so, its nothing to do with money, but medals and id Gerrard wants this medal so bad, well really fairplay. Most p[eople on these boards thinks the CL is a better medal. Not from my eyes and if Gerrard left not from his either.

[Bad Bob]

Very clever Bob, but do you ever hear Peter or Jermaine the way you do Xabi or Javier. I've never heard Scott is on loan at Villa whereas Pepe is always mentioned.

Again I don't recall saying that only non-spanish speaking players were the ones who were moved around, but nine times out of ten it is. We've all pretty much accepted that Kuyt and Voronin are centre forwards but neither get given a run in that position yet Torres does. Fair enough Torres is a world class forward and the best in the world but who's to say that he goes on the right wing he doesn't put 5 crosses a game in that Kuyt would bury. No, Benitez has favourites and there the ones who play in their favoured position week in week out. Most of whom seem to be spanish speaking players.

Prime example...Mascheranho gets sent off against United, Benitez is there trying to calm him down, walking him down the tunnel and even defending him in public...Crouch gets sent off against Chelsea, Benitez doesn't look at him, doesn't console Crouch and refuses to comment on the situation.

You are absolutely off your rocker sometimes, mate.  Yes, playing Torres up top in his preferred position is a sign of favouritism towards Spanish-speakers...only explanation for it really. 

As for Masch, Rafa was trying to calm him the fook down so he'd leave the pitch, not console him.  Crouch had the wherewithall not to linger and so didn't need his manager to get in his face.  Besides, Benitez defended Crouch in the press as well, even though his dismissal was far more indefensible than Mascherano's:


Rafa Benitez blames ref for Peter Crouch red card

Dec 20 2007 by Ian Doyle, Liverpool Daily Post

DISAPPOINTED Rafael Benitez blamed referee Martin Atkinson for Peter Crouch’s red card as Liverpool crashed out of the Carling Cup last night.

A wickedly-deflected Frank Lampard 59th-minute strike was followed by a last-minute Andriy Shevchenko goal as Chelsea won 2-0 in the quarter-final tie at Stamford Bridge.

Liverpool were reduced to 10 men a minute after Lampard’s opener when Crouch launched into an ugly two-footed challenge on Jon Obi Mikel. Benitez accepted the tackle merited a red card but was deeply unhappy with the decision of referee Atkinson not to penalise Mikel for a foul on Crouch moments before as the pair tussled for possession on the touchline.

“If you watch the replay, twice Obi Mikel was trying to kick Crouch and that is why Crouch lost his head,” said the Liverpool manager.

“If the referee had blown his whistle, he would have avoided the sending-off. Sometimes you must be a little bit quicker.

“That is the reason Crouch was upset. It could be a sending-off, yes, but I have seen more dangerous tackles in the last month, and sometimes they have been a yellow card and not even a card. It’s un believable.

“The timing is the key to me, because after this decision the game was finished.”

Crouch, whose sending-off was the fourth of his career, now faces a three-match ban, which will rule him out of most of Liverpool’s festive Premier League programme.
-------------


Truthfully, the only nationalist bias I see here is yours, John. 

[god_bless_john_houlding]

I admit Bob, I don't really like forigeners...then again I don't like many Brits either...but Benitez still favours his spanish speaking pals.

[Bad Bob]

Well thats where me and you differ yet again.

I would he hate if he did f.uck off, but blame probably not. He has spent the best part of his career here. Being a pivitol figure, while teamates and managers have never got it right as far as the league.

Mercinary ? No dont think so, its nothing to do with money, but medals and id Gerrard wants this medal so bad, well really fairplay. Most p[eople on these boards thinks the CL is a better medal. Not from my eyes and if Gerrard left not from his either.

So, if Gerrard orchestrated a transfer to Man U or Chelsea this summer and made it clear that he had done so in order to have a chance at winning the league and thus completing his personal medal collection, you wouldn't resent him for it?

Personally, I'd see it as a fundamental betrayal of the club and I'd detest him for it.  Thankfully, it would never happen.

[Bad Bob]

but Benitez still favours his spanish speaking pals.

Only the ones who play the better football, mate.  Personally, I'm comfortable with him favouring Torres ahead of all other strikers, Reina ahead of all other keepers, and Masch and Alonso ahead of all other holding midfielders.

[Reg]

Well thats where me and you differ yet again.

I would he hate if he did f.uck off, but blame probably not. He has spent the best part of his career here. Being a pivitol figure, while teamates and managers have never got it right as far as the league.

Mercinary ? No dont think so, its nothing to do with money, but medals and id Gerrard wants this medal so bad, well really fairplay. Most p[eople on these boards thinks the CL is a better medal. Not from my eyes and if Gerrard left not from his either.

So, if Gerrard orchestrated a transfer to Man U or Chelsea this summer and made it clear that he had done so in order to have a chance at winning the league and thus completing his personal medal collection, you wouldn't resent him for it?

Personally, I'd see it as a fundamental betrayal of the club and I'd detest him for it.  Thankfully, it would never happen.

Thats harsh Bob, its a miracle he hasnt left us already when u consider the Roy Evans upheaval, Houllier debarcle at the end and now the sh1t that benitez is getting plus general uncertainty from the owners. Why stay? Look at the glory Ronaldo gets at Manure, that could be coming his way if he got himself into a top club here or over there.


You cant knock it, this lad can go all the way to the top, the only thing thats holding him down is Liverpool Football Club.

[god_bless_john_houlding]

but Benitez still favours his spanish speaking pals.

Only the ones who play the better football, mate.  Personally, I'm comfortable with him favouring Torres ahead of all other strikers, Reina ahead of all other keepers, and Masch and Alonso ahead of all other holding midfielders.

aurellio at left back

praise for Mascheranho, Torres, Alonso, Reina but never for Gerrard, Crouch, Carra or Hyypia

Gerrard being shifted here, there and everywhere

[Bad Bob]

aurellio at left back

praise for Mascheranho, Torres, Alonso, Reina but never for Gerrard, Crouch, Carra or Hyypia

Gerrard being shifted here, there and everywhere

Aurelio speaks Portuguese not Spanish and he's on better form than Riise at the moment.

Benitez has praised all of those players loads this season alone--I even gave you some recent quotes in an earlier post. (this is another one of your fibs...like Ronaldo's scored 11 penalties this season.)

Gerrard shifted to the right two seasons back and scores 23.  Gerrard moved into the hole in recent weeks and he's on 19 goals.  You're right, absolutely horrible treatment he's endured under Rafa. 

[LFC2007]

I see GBJH has been on the good shit again.

[Bad Bob]

I see GBJH has been on the good shit again.

Perhaps or maybe he just doesn't like foreigners and worries that "those kind just stick to their own."  And why wouldn't he think that?  After all, that's what he'd do if he managed Liverpool: stick all the Johnny Foreigner types like Alonso, Aurelio, Mascherano, Reina and Torres on the bench, only use their last names in the press and shift them all over the pitch when they did have to be played.  And, of course, he'd eventually replace them with old-fashioned, dependable English players like Murphy, Warnock, Pennant, Carson and Doyle.  That'd win us the league for sure!