Liverpool FC Forum

[Dundalk]

This is all getting very embarrassing

I know a lot on here have still got the rose tinted glasses on but from the outside everyone is laughing at us. We as Liverpool fans know as much as we possibly can know about the Suarez/Evra situation and a lot of people (our manager included) thought they should back Suarez.

Thats fair enough. Kenny might know something nobody else knows and maybe someday that will come out, but....

....look at this again from an outsiders point of view. Around the world people who perhaps don't follow the ins and outs of our football club as much as we do, have just seen the headlines and they are as follows

- Liverpool Player gets accused of racial abuse to another player.
- The said player comes to Anfield and the crowd boo him.
- The Liverpool player goes to Old Trafford and wont shake the same players hand.

Do you see what the rest of the world is seeing? Our reputation globally is is really being dragged through the mud at the moment. No matter what side of the fence you sit on regarding Suarez it dosent change the fact that everyone in the footballing world is looking down their noses at us at the moment. No matter if Suarez is guilty or innocent we are being portrayed as the bad guys.

What happened to the Liverpool way? What happened to doing everything behind closed doors and just getting on with our business quietly and not making a big song and dance about it.

"Always trying to win with aggressive, attractive football; having respect at all times for those that wear the shirt, while holding them accountable for the responsibility that comes with it; and having the utmost reverence for the game and the history of the club and its traditions, in sport and in life."

No man will ever be bigger then the club but from an outsiders point of view it is beginning to seem that Suarez IS bigger then the club and that we will allow our reputation to be shot to pieces.

The way we handled the entire Suarez indecent was quite frankly embarrassing. If the club and Kenny wanted to back Suarez then fine but to go out and warm up with Suarez t-shirts on before the Wigan game screamed off in your face and crass - the total opposite of the Liverpool way! Today Suarez didn't want to shake Evras hand. To me that's far enough, I have no problem with that. If he has a problem with the guy don't shake his hand. Gary Neville in the Sky Studios thought the same, but Kenny's interview after the game was again embarrassing to say the least. It was like there was a big elephant in the room and he didn't want to talk about it. I respect the man and want him to stay on as Liverpool manger but he needs to get some media training. It looked bad when he said he never say anything when every man and his dog knew what had happened. Ignorance isn't going to make it go away

After the 2005 European Cup win we had people from all over the world singing our praises including Diego Maradonas famous quote "The English club proved that miracles really do exist. I've now made Liverpool my English team. They showed that football is the most beautiful sport of all" Our reputation was on the up again and people were buying into the Liverpool mentality. Fast forward six and a half years and its a different story you will hear.

You can say that you don't care and that if we all stick together we will be fine - but we wont. We need to see the bigger picture here. We are losing fans around the world because of this. We are getting the unwanted tag "The racist club"(not my belief, but what others are thinking). Some of the next generation of fans will not want to support us. We really need to put this to bed now because it isnt going to change unless we come forward with some new evidence. Can we just get back to playing some football and put all this behind us now? Its done. Finished. Over.

Roll on Wembly and a trophy....

[7_Kewell]

there's also the fact that we didn't appeal Suarez's ban....that means we accepted it and his guilt.  From the outside this is a f**king mess 

[fivecups]

I agree with most of the 'putting it to bed' tone of this post DD. That's why I think he should have shook his hand, even if he didn't want to. It's playing it smart, not adding fuel to the fire, letting it go. Then for the rest of the match, whenever Evra tries to stir it up (which he will and did, because he's a manipulative, nasty c'unt), ignore him, don't give him the satisfaction of taking the bait.

[7_Kewell]

I agree with most of the 'putting it to bed' tone of this post DD. That's why I think he should have shook his hand, even if he didn't want to. It's playing it smart, not adding fuel to the fire, letting it go. Then for the rest of the match, whenever Evra tries to stir it up (which he will and did, because he's a manipulative, nasty c'unt), ignore him, don't give him the satisfaction of taking the bait.

 

[Kukilon]

All of them can off.

We know who we are and that's the only thing that is important.

[metalhead]

This is all getting very embarrassing

I know a lot on here have still got the rose tinted glasses on but from the outside everyone is laughing at us. We as Liverpool fans know as much as we possibly can know about the Suarez/Evra situation and a lot of people (our manager included) thought they should back Suarez.

Thats fair enough. Kenny might know something nobody else knows and maybe someday that will come out, but....

....look at this again from an outsiders point of view. Around the world people who perhaps don't follow the ins and outs of our football club as much as we do, have just seen the headlines and they are as follows

- Liverpool Player gets accused of racial abuse to another player.
- The said player comes to Anfield and the crowd boo him.
- The Liverpool player goes to Old Trafford and wont shake the same players hand.

Do you see what the rest of the world is seeing? Our reputation globally is is really being dragged through the mud at the moment. No matter what side of the fence you sit on regarding Suarez it dosent change the fact that everyone in the footballing world is looking down their noses at us at the moment. No matter if Suarez is guilty or innocent we are being portrayed as the bad guys.

What happened to the Liverpool way? What happened to doing everything behind closed doors and just getting on with our business quietly and not making a big song and dance about it.

"Always trying to win with aggressive, attractive football; having respect at all times for those that wear the shirt, while holding them accountable for the responsibility that comes with it; and having the utmost reverence for the game and the history of the club and its traditions, in sport and in life."

No man will ever be bigger then the club but from an outsiders point of view it is beginning to seem that Suarez IS bigger then the club and that we will allow our reputation to be shot to pieces.

The way we handled the entire Suarez indecent was quite frankly embarrassing. If the club and Kenny wanted to back Suarez then fine but to go out and warm up with Suarez t-shirts on before the Wigan game screamed off in your face and crass - the total opposite of the Liverpool way! Today Suarez didn't want to shake Evras hand. To me that's far enough, I have no problem with that. If he has a problem with the guy don't shake his hand. Gary Neville in the Sky Studios thought the same, but Kenny's interview after the game was again embarrassing to say the least. It was like there was a big elephant in the room and he didn't want to talk about it. I respect the man and want him to stay on as Liverpool manger but he needs to get some media training. It looked bad when he said he never say anything when every man and his dog knew what had happened. Ignorance isn't going to make it go away

After the 2005 European Cup win we had people from all over the world singing our praises including Diego Maradonas famous quote "The English club proved that miracles really do exist. I've now made Liverpool my English team. They showed that football is the most beautiful sport of all" Our reputation was on the up again and people were buying into the Liverpool mentality. Fast forward six and a half years and its a different story you will hear.

You can say that you don't care and that if we all stick together we will be fine - but we wont. We need to see the bigger picture here. We are losing fans around the world because of this. We are getting the unwanted tag "The racist club"(not my belief, but what others are thinking). Some of the next generation of fans will not want to support us. We really need to put this to bed now because it isnt going to change unless we come forward with some new evidence. Can we just get back to playing some football and put all this behind us now? Its done. Finished. Over.

Roll on Wembly and a trophy....

Good post DD

but I don't agree with most of it, you make good points, but these type of incidents will be forgotten and I don't think you will lose fans because of this.

Did the Mancs lose fans when Cantona kicked a fan and the club defended him throughout the case? Nah... football fans are fickle

[roysreds]

This is all getting very embarrassing

I know a lot on here have still got the rose tinted glasses on but from the outside everyone is laughing at us. We as Liverpool fans know as much as we possibly can know about the Suarez/Evra situation and a lot of people (our manager included) thought they should back Suarez.

Thats fair enough. Kenny might know something nobody else knows and maybe someday that will come out, but....

....look at this again from an outsiders point of view. Around the world people who perhaps don't follow the ins and outs of our football club as much as we do, have just seen the headlines and they are as follows

- Liverpool Player gets accused of racial abuse to another player.
- The said player comes to Anfield and the crowd boo him.
- The Liverpool player goes to Old Trafford and wont shake the same players hand.

Do you see what the rest of the world is seeing? Our reputation globally is is really being dragged through the mud at the moment. No matter what side of the fence you sit on regarding Suarez it dosent change the fact that everyone in the footballing world is looking down their noses at us at the moment. No matter if Suarez is guilty or innocent we are being portrayed as the bad guys.

What happened to the Liverpool way? What happened to doing everything behind closed doors and just getting on with our business quietly and not making a big song and dance about it.

"Always trying to win with aggressive, attractive football; having respect at all times for those that wear the shirt, while holding them accountable for the responsibility that comes with it; and having the utmost reverence for the game and the history of the club and its traditions, in sport and in life."

No man will ever be bigger then the club but from an outsiders point of view it is beginning to seem that Suarez IS bigger then the club and that we will allow our reputation to be shot to pieces.

The way we handled the entire Suarez indecent was quite frankly embarrassing. If the club and Kenny wanted to back Suarez then fine but to go out and warm up with Suarez t-shirts on before the Wigan game screamed off in your face and crass - the total opposite of the Liverpool way! Today Suarez didn't want to shake Evras hand. To me that's far enough, I have no problem with that. If he has a problem with the guy don't shake his hand. Gary Neville in the Sky Studios thought the same, but Kenny's interview after the game was again embarrassing to say the least. It was like there was a big elephant in the room and he didn't want to talk about it. I respect the man and want him to stay on as Liverpool manger but he needs to get some media training. It looked bad when he said he never say anything when every man and his dog knew what had happened. Ignorance isn't going to make it go away

After the 2005 European Cup win we had people from all over the world singing our praises including Diego Maradonas famous quote "The English club proved that miracles really do exist. I've now made Liverpool my English team. They showed that football is the most beautiful sport of all" Our reputation was on the up again and people were buying into the Liverpool mentality. Fast forward six and a half years and its a different story you will hear.

You can say that you don't care and that if we all stick together we will be fine - but we wont. We need to see the bigger picture here. We are losing fans around the world because of this. We are getting the unwanted tag "The racist club"(not my belief, but what others are thinking). Some of the next generation of fans will not want to support us. We really need to put this to bed now because it isnt going to change unless we come forward with some new evidence. Can we just get back to playing some football and put all this behind us now? Its done. Finished. Over.

Roll on Wembly and a trophy....

Good post DD

but I don't agree with most of it, you make good points, but these type of incidents will be forgotten and I don't think you will lose fans because of this.

Did the Mancs lose fans when Cantona kicked a fan and the club defended him throughout the case? Nah... football fans are fickle

.
little bit different to the cantona thing imo,

then cantona was cast as the VICTIM of "racist" abuse from that fan,( who ran all the way down the stand blah,blah,blah).
.

[Greavesie]

I agree with DD, this is getting pretty p!ss poor for everyone outside of LFC. I can defend Suarez to the hilt on the Evra racist malarky but now we just have to forget it. Today was an absolute PR disaster for both teams. Everyone has to just let it go

Kenny has to learn how to handle the media, I'm getting pretty annoyed at the way he's carried on lately

This whole affair has killed my love of the game lately, I thought when we got Kenny we'd get that old school Liverpool way back and everything would be fine. I thought Kenny would be entertaining in press conferences and he was at first (I dunno what the hells gotten into him but he has to get over it) and that our relations with the media would be pretty friendly. I absolutely love this club and seeing it getting berated by almost every other football fan across the country is killing me

[LFC2007]

Good post and I agree that some of the handling of the whole Suarez affair could and should have been dealt with in a way that's more consistent with the way the club has traditionally went about its business. Having said that, I would hesitate to overestimate the damage that's been done to the club. The club has a long and proud history that we aspire to maintain and that supersedes any one player, or any one incident or even series of incidents, so much so that it's unlikely to have a serious and lasting effect on the club.  There has obviously been some reputational damage done, though, and this hasn't been helped by the intensity of media coverage. Just a few minutes ago on Sky News I noticed that Suarez' refusal to shake Evra's hand was their "Top Story" -- in the intro they even stated that Suarez "had racially abused Evra", without clarifying that this was the judgment of an FA disciplinary panel. The refusal to shake a fellow footballer's hand is apparently more important in their estimation than the situation in Syria, amongst other things.

What we need to do is just to settle on a sensible position as a club and stick to it. We can't have, as we had recenty, the manager saying that Suarez is going to let it go and signify this by shaking Evra's hand, only for Suarez to refuse to do so. A unified approach is needed. I think that having accepted the FA's decision, and notwitstanding the sense of injustice that may be felt about it, that for the sake of restoring our reputation in the eyes of others (unfortunately the money in football these days makes it necessary to be PR savvy) it makes sense to bring closure to the issue. Button up and move on.

[Greavesie]

the reckless reporting by the FA and the media of this country have played a massive part in the Suarez case. Many people to this day quote fabricated nonsense about the hearing, people who don't have a clue what the facts were and its as if they've made it up to reach the conclusion that Suarez is guilty. If the FA said 'you used a word that is of no racial connotation to you but it does over here, we cannot accept that ignorance is not a defence and have to punish you' I could get away with that. BUT they didn't, they disregarded everything Suarez said and made what Evra said as fact. To me, that was the biggest mess about this whole thing. The FA protected Terry from his handshake media backlash and have failed to do anything on this one, I find the whole thing messed up from that level tbh, our behaviour certainly hasn't helped but when you know some of the facts we know that others don't, you're always going to get a heated defence, which makes us look even more ridiculous, no mattter how true we are

[kartiek]

I hate to say this but it's true - Liverpool FC have taken a massive hit to their reputation in this whole handling of the Suarez issue. I don't care if Suarez was guilty or not, but I've had enough of Liverpool being turned over and over into the Suarez show because of Luis's antics.

First things first, people here would be really with me for saying this but I honestly think that Suarez did utter negro or whatever in a hateful way. There's no doubt about it. We know what he's like, he's fiercely passionate and his temper flies. Heck, I've said some absolutely disgusting things without meaning them in an outburst a lot of times in my life, so have we all. I'm not saying that he's racist, sometimes you say hateful things to rile up your opponent, it happens, but I feel like whatever he said, was said in a hateful manner and deserved some condemnation. I'm NOT defending Evra, he's a and what he said to Luis deserves the same order of condemnation. What was needed? an 8 match ban? Probably not. An apology, exchange of reconciliatory words, would have gone most definitely a long way in such a situation. But we didn't ask Luis to try any of that.

But let's for an instance say that Suarez was completely innocent, alright? Even in this case, I think our club and Kenny had a duty in keeping level headed and not forgetting what is most important - asserting that our club wants racism weeded out above anything else. But no, instead of letting thorough investigation decide the matter, we instead turned the debate on racism into purely a matter of standing by our player no matter what, and not even that, we were extremely brash (t-shirt display) about this. We therefore allowed people to question our basic values, and what we attribute more importance to - eradicating a social evil or just standing by our player? The least we could have done was to have been more responsible and sat on the fence for a bit until the investigations were complete instead of pronouncing judgment before hand! I'm not saying that Kenny stood by a racist man or Luis is racist, I'm simply saying that Kenny didn't appreciate the significance of the way LFC should deal with such a situation and what the club should give more importance to.

I think Luis needs to grow up a bit, think about his family and fans, and the way he's acting. Never mind Evra, he's making a fool of himself all the time. But you have to do what's right for your own sake and Suarez just doesn't get what the right thing to do is. Unfortunately, our club's image is being tarnished constantly because of this and it's really, really sad.

[Octsky]

all of this is not important, we are a football club.
we do our talking on the pitch.
Suarez will do his talking on the pitch.
win the league cup, possibly the FA cup and get fourth place and we can silence the media.

[Greavesie]

now, I haven't watched the handshake thing but I was told from a City fan that Evra pulled Suarez' arm towards him when Suarez went to walk away, the City fan actually said Evra fuelled it and if Suarez didn't want to shake hands then he didn't have to. I thought that was an interesting take and one that spares Suarez from the witch hunt. I still haven't watched it but I've received some images that show Suarez reaching out to shake hands:

Sorry about the URL, it'll have to go into your browser:

http://desmond.imageshack.us/Himg339....=medium

and now these:



now call me mental, but are those images lying to me? Cheers to KK for these

I know no matter how many people see these its not gonna change much but surely the media just have it in for this guy.

[Octsky]

now, I haven't watched the handshake thing but I was told from a City fan that Evra pulled Suarez' arm towards him when Suarez went to walk away, the City fan actually said Evra fuelled it and if Suarez didn't want to shake hands then he didn't have to. I thought that was an interesting take and one that spares Suarez from the witch hunt. I still haven't watched it but I've received some images that show Suarez reaching out to shake hands:

Sorry about the URL, it'll have to go into your browser:

http://desmond.imageshack.us/Himg339....=medium

and now these:



now call me mental, but are those images lying to me? Cheers to KK for these

I know no matter how many people see these its not gonna change much but surely the media just have it in for this guy.

ya evra is a manipulative bas.tar.d, well i didnt expect
anything less from someone who instigated the whole France
team to walk out during WC.

this pic told the truth, it is possible to blast this pics to the media?
to everyone?

[kartiek]

now, I haven't watched the handshake thing but I was told from a City fan that Evra pulled Suarez' arm towards him when Suarez went to walk away, the City fan actually said Evra fuelled it and if Suarez didn't want to shake hands then he didn't have to. I thought that was an interesting take and one that spares Suarez from the witch hunt. I still haven't watched it but I've received some images that show Suarez reaching out to shake hands:

Sorry about the URL, it'll have to go into your browser:

http://desmond.imageshack.us/Himg339....=medium

and now these:



now call me mental, but are those images lying to me? Cheers to KK for these

I know no matter how many people see these its not gonna change much but surely the media just have it in for this guy.

regardless of what I wrote above, I do agree that in this whole handshake, Evra seemed to have almost tried to have hidden his hand when Suarez came over. I'm sure Suarez didn't have a plan to not shake hands with Evra but again in the heat of the moment when he felt that Evra was hiding his hand, he thought to himself, " it, why should I be the one trying to shake this 's hand"