Liverpool FC Forum

[Reg]

Selling Mane was the end of 4-3-3. Diaz plays more as a left winger and certainly isn't in the Mane/Suarez role. Diaz is more of a Steve Heighway so I'd say we've naturally morphed into 4-4-2. I'm now sure whether you need wingbacks when playing 4-4-2 or whether you revert to a traditional Phil Neal/Alan Kennedy or Lawler/Lindsay formation which would allow you to move TAA to midfield and use Gomez as a traditional RB. There's no downside replacing Milner with TAA in MF! Why not play the Greek in MF and get rid of Naby?

If Klopp doesn't mind taking some stick in teh press, he still has lots of options to reconfigure the team until we bring in 2-3 necessary replacements.

[eds]

Needs a complete overhaul.

Fabinho and Henderson are finished at this level.

Keita, Chamberlain can’t be relied on.

Milner is 80 years old, while Thiago is a luxury we can’t carry in the side at the moment.

We need a significant investment and bring in 3 new midfielders. Whether FSG will be around when that happens will determine how quickly we will be competitive again.

[damjan193]

I can understand Hendo being finished, he's 32, but what's going on with Fabinho, he's not even 30 but plays like he's 10 years older. Used to be one of the best in his position until recently.

[kazza]

It’s the intensity we are missing and that is all over the pitch. We had players that were snapping at heals, closing down as a team and putting teams in all sorts of trouble. It was our intensity that allowed this team to compete with teams that had spent 3 to 4 times more on their squads and every team hated playing us. Without that intensity, which is where we are, we are an average team with average players. I’m not sure just getting a couple of players like when we did with VVD and Allison with change much if the intensity is not there. Intensity is contagious!

[ycsatbjywtbiastkamb]

Yeah that’s true about intensity which of course is closely related to work rate which in turn reminds me of that damning statistic from a few weeks back when Forest ran 11km further than us.
We are getting out-everything atm, out worked, out ran, out fought, out battled…..you name it.
Just watching Arsenal go 2 nil up at Spurs, they were an absolute shambles a while back, how the hell have we allowed them to not just catch us but lleave us trailing in their wake?

[redshade]

Arteta has got them clicking, they are playing really well as a unit. Young, hungry side playing with intensity like we used to.

All positions they are fairly covered now only thing they lack is squad depth.

Halfway only gone but I feel our 6 year stay in UCL will come to an end.

[red till i die!!]

Over the entire duration of 2022 Arsenal have been the best team in the league imo. It was around this time last year that they started putting wins on the board and turning in quality performances.They brought that form through the summer and into this season so I'm a bit surprised that they have the gap they have but not surprised that they are up there and have overtaken us.

Intensity is certainly key to a klopp side. We don't buy the top players and what we sign has to give 150% every game to make up for that. That in turn leads to burnout which is what has happened to a lot of our players. They can't replicate that intensity anymore and we don't have the quality to fall back on to make up for it. Some of the players we signed as well were no where near good enough to even force one of the others out.

We need to sign better players and stop thinking we can sign lads for 3 mil, 5 mil or 10 mil and turn them into superstars because we can't. No point in signing lads because that's what the budget allows or he won't look for much money in wages. The decision to sign players has to be based on what they can bring to the pitch above everything else. Given the intensity required to play for Klopp eliminates a lot of players so players like Ox and anyone else with a poor fitness record should be ran a mile from.

Nothing will change under FSG though. The Red Sox seem to compete every 5 to 7 years but after every successful season they stagnate and rebuild again. I think this philosophy has carried across in their policies but isn't working for us. We had ourselves in a position where we should have been adding that one quality proven player every year to maintain it but we chose to either promote an academy player, give someone an undeserved new deal or brought in a Minamino. Squad management has been poor and imo its not down to Klopp but the policies. Some of the criticism from the pitch he deserves but not how the club is being run or managed.

I am no fan of the owners but think now is the time for FSG to show proper ownership and do what needs to be done and change the opinion of people like me. Money needs to be spent and they can well afford to give it to us. I want to be hearing talk of investment into the squad backing the manager not stuff about getting someone else's money to do it or selling up altogether.  Going out in the next round of the CL will hurt the coffers along with missing out next season and they will punish the club for that should that scenario unfold.

Klopp is a world class manager and the best we can possibly have managing us. He is everything we want in a manager and is Liverpool through and through. What will be unforgivable is if he walks at the end of the season citing reasons like it's best to step aside as the rebuild will take more time than he has. If we want him to stay we have a better chance of doing that if we have a competitive team.

[ycsatbjywtbiastkamb]

Great post mate

[Eagle]

Klopp signed a new long term contract less than a year ago, Mike Gordon stays at his house when he's in the UK, and he's been given £180mil net (£300mil gross) over the last 3 seasons while we've had to find cash to build the new training ground and the Anfield Road stand. He isn't going to have a hissy fit and leave. He clearly has a good relationship with the owners. FSG are openly looking to sell and it's clear that things are going on so I don't see them being here next season but it's business as usual for now as the club is run like a self-sustaining business. I mean Klopp just went out and spent £40mil on yet another left sided forward. Some might say that's a bit strange when our midfielder is struggling and we already have Diaz, Jota, Carvalho, and even Nunez who can play in Gakpo's position.

What Arsenal have done over the last few years is get rid of a lot of their older player who were on big contracts. They've massively reduced their squad size and more importantly their wage bill. That's allowed them to rebuild. We might not need to act as drastically as them but we need to do something similar. Giving Henderson a 4 year contract last summer was bizarre. Giving Ox an extension during his injury is also a decision that has come back to bite us. We'll lose Keita, Ox, Milner, and Arthur in the summer so that frees up space in the squad and on the payroll for midfielders but we do need to be more careful about the contracts we hand out going forward.

On the midfield, I'm not sure why we have changed our transfer strategy and are trying to compete with the likes of Madrid and City for a very small pool of high profile £100mil players like Tchouameni and Bellingham. We've been so good at the more under the radar low key signings like Jota, Konate, Salah, Mane, etc. We bought in Gakpo but surely there is £40mil midfielder out there that Klopp likes?

[kazza]

Over the entire duration of 2022 Arsenal have been the best team in the league imo. It was around this time last year that they started putting wins on the board and turning in quality performances.They brought that form through the summer and into this season so I'm a bit surprised that they have the gap they have but not surprised that they are up there and have overtaken us.

Intensity is certainly key to a klopp side. We don't buy the top players and what we sign has to give 150% every game to make up for that. That in turn leads to burnout which is what has happened to a lot of our players. They can't replicate that intensity anymore and we don't have the quality to fall back on to make up for it. Some of the players we signed as well were no where near good enough to even force one of the others out.

We need to sign better players and stop thinking we can sign lads for 3 mil, 5 mil or 10 mil and turn them into superstars because we can't. No point in signing lads because that's what the budget allows or he won't look for much money in wages. The decision to sign players has to be based on what they can bring to the pitch above everything else. Given the intensity required to play for Klopp eliminates a lot of players so players like Ox and anyone else with a poor fitness record should be ran a mile from.

Nothing will change under FSG though. The Red Sox seem to compete every 5 to 7 years but after every successful season they stagnate and rebuild again. I think this philosophy has carried across in their policies but isn't working for us. We had ourselves in a position where we should have been adding that one quality proven player every year to maintain it but we chose to either promote an academy player, give someone an undeserved new deal or brought in a Minamino. Squad management has been poor and imo its not down to Klopp but the policies. Some of the criticism from the pitch he deserves but not how the club is being run or managed.

I am no fan of the owners but think now is the time for FSG to show proper ownership and do what needs to be done and change the opinion of people like me. Money needs to be spent and they can well afford to give it to us. I want to be hearing talk of investment into the squad backing the manager not stuff about getting someone else's money to do it or selling up altogether.  Going out in the next round of the CL will hurt the coffers along with missing out next season and they will punish the club for that should that scenario unfold.

Klopp is a world class manager and the best we can possibly have managing us. He is everything we want in a manager and is Liverpool through and through. What will be unforgivable is if he walks at the end of the season citing reasons like it's best to step aside as the rebuild will take more time than he has. If we want him to stay we have a better chance of doing that if we have a competitive team.

Good post

[kazza]

https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11669/12788139/jurgen-klopp-insists-he-is-not-too-loyal-to-players-but-accepts-liverpool-are-underperforming

Jurgen Klopp insists he is not 'too loyal' to players but accepts Liverpool are 'underperforming'
Liverpool have lost back-to-back Premier League games for a second time this season, suffering six defeats overall, three times as many as in the entirety of 2021-22 (2); The Reds have also lost as many as five away league matches in a single season for the first time since 2017-18 (5)


Ben Grounds
@Ben_Islington
Monday 16 January 2023 22:59,
Ahead of his side's clash against Wolves, Liverpool manager Jurgen Klopp hit back at questions surrounding transfers saying they would bring players in 'if the solutions were there'.
Jurgen Klopp insists he is not "too loyal" to his "underperforming" senior players and says Liverpool will only look to bolster their squad in January if deals are "available and doable".

Klopp has a number of problems to solve after admitting Saturday's 3-0 loss to Brighton was the worst performance of his managerial career.


His side have already lost six times in the Premier League - after being beaten only four times in 63 games in all competitions last season - and are 10 points adrift of the top four.

Speaking on the eve of Liverpool's FA Cup third-round replay with Wolves Klopp said the issues at Liverpool are "complex" and cannot be resolved by simply spending in the transfer window, despite admitting the need to strengthen - Liverpool have already spent up to £45m on the signing of Cody Gakpo this January.

Under particular scrutiny has been Liverpool's ageing midfield with captain Jordan Henderson himself admitting Saturday's defeat at Brighton "lacked energy".


Henderson (32) and Fabinho (29) - who have won every club trophy during their time at Anfield - and 31-year-old Thiago, a later arrival but still a double cup winner last season, remain the Reds' first-choice midfield.



Staving off criticism he is overly-reliant on the so-called old guard, Klopp said: "I heard I'm too loyal but I am not too loyal. The problem is too complex. If you can then go out and bring in another player to replace him, then it makes sense.

"But if you cannot bring anyone in, you cannot take anyone out. I am not too loyal. At Dortmund before I left, I said something had to change here - either a management change or a lot of other things needed to change.

"I will be here for as long as I am wanted. If no one tells me to go, I will not go. It is something for the future, in the summer, not now. The only thing I want is to fix this situation - that is all.

"It is clear that there will be an important period of change. There have been injuries, but no one is interested in that. The boys feel the responsibility, but we're sticking together with all we have."

The Transfer Show's Dharmesh Sheth explains the dilemma facing Jurgen Klopp and Liverpool in the current transfer window.
He added: "Do we have to strengthen? Oh yes. But is this the right moment for it? I cannot see it because of the situation we are in, I think I know exactly how that is, and that's it. I cannot change the answer every week. Even when we lost another game since the last press conference, it doesn't change."

Klopp: We aren't stubborn

Klopp doubts there will be further reinforcements
Klopp also addressed questions over whether a particularly poor run of form, which has been compounded by injuries to Luis Diaz, Roberto Firmino, Diogo Jota and most recently Virgil van Dijk, will force the club's hand in the January window.

"We look outside as well," he said. "It's not that we are stubborn and think that's it, we'll go with these boys until 2050 or whatever. That's not how we see it, it's all about what we can do and these kind of things - and what you want to do. More important is what you can do. It's always the same, each year.

"I cannot change my answers - if the solutions are out there for us, available and doable, of course we would bring in players to help. But we have an existing squad as well and we are underperforming, definitely, I know that. But I cannot sit here and blame everyone else, the players, all the time. It is my responsibility.

"That's my job to [get them to perform]. We have limited options but we have players with contracts here, they are not available. But if we bring in players, we cannot bring them all in the Premier League and Champions League list."

The reason for Liverpool's struggle is a simple question with a multi-faceted answer.

A number of factors have contrived to create the current situation the most testing Klopp has faced in his time at Anfield. The manager will point to injuries: he had four forwards missing at Brighton - two long-term absentees - as well as influential centre-back Van Dijk.

Fatigue, both physical and mental, has also played a part. Klopp finally admitted on Friday that the 63-game 2021/22 season which saw Liverpool win two cups, almost lift the Premier League and Champions League, and play in every match for which they were eligible has impacted his squad. Captain Jordan Henderson confirmed after the Brighton defeat the players were low on energy and confidence.

Fatigue? Low on energy? How come?

Well, off the back of Liverpool's marathon previous season their starting midfield three at Brighton - Henderson (32), Thiago Alcantara (31) and Fabinho (29) - had a combined age of 92. Of the alternatives James Milner is 37, Naby Keita and Curtis Jones have missed a lot of the campaign with injury while youngster Harvey Elliott has struggled in an under-performing team.

So why has Klopp not freshened up his squad?

In one word: money.

Owners Fenway Sports Group found £35m-£45m to bring in PSV forward Gakpo this month even though he was a longer-range target because they wanted to fend off interest from other clubs. Klopp wanted Aurelien Tchouameni to bolster his midfield but the France international chose Real Madrid in the summer.

Midfield remains the area in real need of attention and the suspicion is FSG are budgeting for a break-the-bank deal for Borussia Dortmund's Jude Bellingham.

What can Klopp do then?

Having ruled out making any more signings this window it looks like he will have to muddle through.

Getting forwards Firmino and Darwin Nunez back fit will help but his option in midfield is to put greater faith in the likes of Keita and Jones and hope they can provide the refresh.

What's the short-term fix to their general problems?

Finding a way not to be so defensively fragile would be a start. Liverpool have conceded the first goal 21 times in their last 35 matches and have not kept a clean sheet in the Premier League since October.

That is another issue which can be traced to their midfield deficiencies, but they have looked so open at the back opposition teams know they will always get chances. A change in formation may help but Klopp has already made minor tweaks without much success.

Liverpool's midfield malfunction


The spotlight is shining so brightly on Liverpool's defence right now it's blinding those in view - yet, to focus solely on the individuals playing at the heart of the backline would be allowing others to escape criticism.

Yes, Joel Matip was at fault for the opening Brighton goal with a sloppy pass but up until that point, he and Ibrahim Konate had defended with great cohesion and assurance. They simply had to as the pressure towards their goal was relentless from a Brighton side that are purring right now.

And why were the Liverpool centre-backs so busy? Well, it stemmed from the Liverpool midfield trio of Jordan Henderson, Fabinho and Thiago, who was playing in a very odd role just off the two strikers. It did not suit him.

Brighton's duo of Alexis Mac Allister and Moses Caicedo made the Liverpool trio look like they should be considering playing in a veterans league.

The midfield is the heart of a Jurgen Klopp team - when it malfunctions, like it is right now, then the forward line and backline suffer. This Liverpool team are not only malfunctioning but threatening to spin out of control.

[Reg]

So much easier to simply reply, 'Yes we've cocked it up but action is being taken. Stay tuned.'

[Penguins]

There are only 2 way to "survive" as a club in today's game long term
'
1.  You sign good players and keep them and then when they're done you just spend more and replace them. THAT IS IT, NO EXCEPTIONS!
2. You sell to buy. You buy players with the INTENT to sell when they approah 30.

That is it. Everything else is just horsecrap and with zero chance of success. And what have the club done?  Kept players around until old age on high wages with no resale value while at the same time not buying new players. Clueless idiots....

[UvS xR4GEx]

I love Fabinho he's been a unbelievable player for us.. but he's done!! His legs have completely gone, I'm not sure if he can get back to the level he was at. I think we were looking at bringing in 2 CMs to replace Thiago and Hendo, but Fabinho being so bad this season has thrown a huge spanner in the works.

[Reg]

Two? We need too replace Ox, Keita, Fab and Hendo. In 18 months add Thiago to that list. By the way we didn't replace Gini yet..