Liverpool FC Forum

[supersub]

stu continues to vomit garbage from his pathetic little mouth.I've heard some excuses for teams under performing,but the fans not jumping up and down enough,not singing or chanting with great conviction and moaning too much is the reason why our  beloved Liverpool is in this sorry state,beggars belief.

[82-1074641017]

How can you say the fans are to blame Stu?
They are the ones who have stuck by the club for the last 14 years

Roberts

[oldredeyes]

My old brain goes back a long way, so you will have to bear with me - and trust me on this one, Stu.
Putting it simply, supporters at the ground can affect games but do not influence great teams - great teams are already motivated by the talent they possess.
But great teams do motivate supporters into giving them the support they deserve and thrive on.
I remember some sad Liverpool teams before the Shankly days which attracted untold abuse from the fans - my own dad and his mates were among those who demanded an improvement in results and performance, and as a kid I could see what they were complaining about. There was something like 60,000 people in the old ground, and many a time the fans had little to shout about because the teams on show were pretty poor.
Enter Shanks - who realised that the great fans of Merseyside deserved a great team and he set about giving them a team to be proud of.
I grew up supporting those great Shanks teams and afterwards the teams of Paisley and beyond.
I always felt excitement, pride and passion for the team and shouted myself hoarse at every game - roaring the lads on to endless victories.
Shanks proved that if the supporters are given the right team and the right management the fans will repay you a thousand times over.
Right now Stu, and for much of the past 12 years or so, we have been badly let down by the management and players of this great football club.
Nobody gets excited at funerals and shouts their head off in support. But give the people a feast and a carnival to enjoy and they will respond. Don't blame fans like me who still go to the games for our current demise.
Nobody has roared Liverpool teams on more than I have - but these days there seems less and less to shout about.
And it never used to be like that.

[supersub]

thanks,oldredeyes,for that post.Hopefully stu and others,who except mediocrity as entertainment,may one day remove the red-tinted glasses and see the stale,stagnant,clueless performances for what they are;

[Supermarius]

Sorry...I love this club...but i will never cheer mediocrity and thats wat it is at its best...that type of thing spreads to the fans and board until we become like houillier himself and be happy with 4th spot

[The Manhattan Project]

the 1988 facup final loss to wimbledon

That f##king match still gives me nightmares.



   

[REDTILLDEAD]

Seeing houllier in charge next season gives me nightmares!!

[The Manhattan Project]

Now, I won't be able to sleep tonight.

   

[JBG]

The problems with the crowd have really only begun this season. I know the place was a like a morgue a few times last year as well, but if anything Liverpool fans were singing Houllier's name and applauding the players at times they didn't deserve it last year. If anything the fans have been too kind to Houllier and his team.

I know he's beginning to get stick now, but I was annoyed last season when everyone went crazy about Houllier and the team when he won the Carling Cup. I know everyone likes winning a trophy, but our league form at the time was alarming, and winning a poxy cup over an opponent who wasn't bothered on the day shouldn't have papered over the cracks of an alarming decline.

[supersub]

Since winning the 3 cups in 2001,it has been a non-stop trail of papering the cracks.

[big al]

Some good threads here but I think Stu raises a very valid point that requires some more indepth response so let me try.

Once when league football was in its infancy the big clubs were little clubs.  They were church teams and working mens team who played football for pure satifaction.  The players were happy to compete in what in the words of the great Danny Blanchflower ' Was the greatest Democracy ever concieved'  Football was and at grass roots is still the most democratic passtime ever invented.  25 men or women take to the pitch and play out a game by which the outcome is arrived at by 90 mins of tactics, skill, technique, commitment, hardwork and creativity.  What working man who slaved down the mines or stood on freezing ship yards of factory floors, would,nt want a little bit of that democracy. Moreover if you played with peers you could be the equal of Bobby Moore of Geordi Best or Emlyn Hughes.  Because football is all relative.  The best play with the best, medium with medium etc. 

Anyway as I was saying people played and still do because as a sport football is unrivalled.  In the olden days people followed local teams with local players and paying to watch teams was not an issue.  Fans were local and loyal often cheering on their mates or relatives.  Well that was then.

Today top flight football is no longer local its Global, the Premiership with 20 clubs has 368 non British or Irish players, getting local lads in your team is rare.  The local fans still support their team but it is no longer their team alone.  TV the media and the ability to travel vast distances in a short time (unless your Denis Bergkemp) is made Liverpool a Global team.  Anyone and I mean anyone (Even the Michael Howard, Tory Leader) identifies and supports Liverpool. Even the definition of supporter has changed, once it meant those who paid in week in week out now it means something totally different. (go Figure)  We no longer have only local players or only local fans.  In fact some clubs have global ownership (Man U).  What does all this have to do with it I hear you ask Stu.

Well simply Stu, the fans never changed Liverpool, the media, evolution, money ( not least Wages bills) merchandising but more importantly success changed Liverpool.  For success is in essence its own master.  With the success Shankly brought to Liverpool, he also brought legions of non Liverpudlian fans (people like me).  That success not only changed the following of Liverpool it changed the standards of Liverpool.  Those standards would not longer be determined by local people they would be determined and measured against that success.  You get angry Stu and frustrated by people continually barracking Liverpool FC, you attacck non Liverpudlians, you want absolute loyality (no bad thing)  but Stu thats the past your living in.  Your still searching for democracy in a dictatorship.  That dictatorship is success.  Those of us who will not and cannot accept mediocrity speak with the authority of that success.  Liverpool is not a Sunday league team, its now one of the greatest sporting clubs in the World.  The democracy lies no longer with managers and players they are professionals(paid to preform) the fans pay their wages.  Its a simple formula Stu

Fans+Money= get best players= Win Trohies titles=Succes= Fans+Money

Your spot on Stu we have good players they are underacheiving they are nervous and they looked strained. You think its the fans causing this, Most of us thinks that its Houllier so lets be truly democratic about this lets wait and let Success be the judge.

[The_Rock]

Yes...we have some excellent players. Baros looks class...my god he can dribble like maradona and shoot like shearer. Baros, Kewell & Gerrard look to be the only ones that are capable of keeping us going to matches.

[greenred]

good thread.

[whelston23]

i agree will stu the red. one thing i can say.. as fans.. we should do our best to motivate our players.. thru our voice.. encouraging them...

[laza]

I really have to check the dates before i start reading these retro threads