Liverpool FC Forum

[eds]

I do have a feeling that a World Cup-free summer will help us a huge amount. All the top sides obviously had players involved last summer, but to be honest some of our players looked knackered in the first few weeks of this season.

I'd say that slow-starters - and here I'm particularly pointing the finger at Alonso who was absolutely terrible for the first month of the season - should work extra hard this coming summer. We need to explode out of the blocks if there's a title challenge to be made, I don't want to hear things like "Sheff Utd away is always going to be a difficult game". Even if we go to grounds like that and stink the place out, we need to get results in those games. Unfortunately, no matter what the budget is for the coming window, that's a knack you can't necessarily buy.

Exactly. I am sick and tired of hearing the same s\h/i/t being spouted on this forum:

"Oh they are a new promoted team so they are up for it"

"Its Bolton and they are sooooo physical"

"Portsmouth have improved dramatically and are a hard task"

F|U?|CK that! If we are going to win the premiership next season these teams should be fearing us, EVEN IN THEIR OWN HOME! No more excuses and no more medicore results, Rafa needs to sort the signings out this summer or he will be shown the door in 2008/2009..................

[Alonso14]

For some reason Alonso always seems to have a slow start and then seems to pick up his form. And its no coincidence that when his form picks up so does the teams. When he plays, Liverpool play, so yes he defiantly needs to come out strong right from the off.

[Emerald Red]

It was interesting to hear Carragher after the United game at Anfield after we got robbed there, having a similar question being put to him in the interview after the game, his response was - "Better players in all areas. Hopefully not at centre-back."

We're lacking wide players that can run with the ball downfield and cut in and attack the box at pace. We need a player like Berger back at Anfield, or another McManaman. We arn't short of a title winning team. I'm thinking three quality players and that's it. Nothing major is wrong. Certainly not as bad as Carra put it.

[Fowler_E7]

id say were not that far off, but the this summers signings will be important, there is no need to just add the numbers now, this years signings must be of high quality if we are to challenge next year. All id say we need is a top class left winger, and a quality striker who scores goals reguarly, and has pace as our only pacey striker is Bellamy who is of no way near the required standard.

[dutchman]

Sissoko is still 22... ill judge him as a player when he becomes 25 or 26 because he has the potential to improve.. his passing will get better and he will have more composure.. im confident

Yes but be realisitic. Are you prepared to wait that long while he sorts even these basic parts of his game out? Do you think the likes of Souness, Terry McDermott, Ray Kennedy, Jimmy Case, Ronnie Whelan, Steve McMahon were still learning to pass a ball to a team mate in the midfield between the ages of 22 and 26? By then they were the finished article, plying their trade and bringing home Championships.

These should be the peak years for peak performers not learning years for basic stuff like first touch and simple possession. We have imo 2 world class central midfield players in Alonso and Gerrard - everyone cites Momo's aggression and desire as if these other two have graduated from the Glenn Hoddle school of "after you, Claude" tackling - they're not exactly shrinking violets when it comes to putting a foot in. But they can keep the ball, pass the ball and score goals.

Risse on the left provides enough attacking intent and output to warrant his place (just) - he gets his fair share of goals and contributes defensively but he can be very inconsistent and frustrating.

To me, there are two key positions we need to sort out next year. First, bring Gerrard back into the centre and give him his prime footballing years in his best position. We need to fill his right side midfield place with someone of equal/similar ability. Second, as everyone has stated is the obvious 20+ per season striker in the mould of Rushie, Robbie or Michael in the pomp. I like the workrate from both Bellamy and Kuyt and I think they would be a good foil for an out-and-out striker.

Also surprised to see Finnan only making St. Michael's B list - he's a very under-rated player - look at the two crucial (and clean) tackles he made against Barcelona in the last 20 minutes of that game - yes he lacks the blood and thunder performances you get from Carragher but he has more than played his part this year.

I also disagree on the view that you don't win titles on your results against the big teams - we had a very tough start to the season but facts are facts and you cannot write off 12-15 points just like that. It's normally the case that the big teams take points off each other, i.e. it sort of evens itself out but that's not been the case with us in the past 3 years and you cannot underestimate the effect that that must have on the confidence. More belief and passion against these teams home or away - I can accept the nature of defeat when it comes like it did against the Mancs a couple of weeks ago and against Chelsea at Stamford Bridge but not the Man U and Arsenal away defeats - they were f~cking terrible.

And finally - less rotation (please Rafa less rotation!!!)

[Redman in wales]

Good post.

And yes, yet again for about the 3rd season in a row, we've found ourselves wanting 2/3 quality players.

My feelings are much the same as most who have already posted above.

Priority 1 : Striker - a make-something-out-of-nothing striker:

imo
eto'o - will stay at barca,
torres - is hyped too much.
Villa - would be alot of money (which i think the americans would actually fund, as they've done it in the past in the U.S.) but the question is, would they let him go? and would he come here if they did?

Maybe we have to look at quality strikers without the stigma attached to them - Berbatov and Martins have both been mentioned in another thread. Personally I would love to see Berbatov here. Other posibilities might be Defoe (has his critics but has still scored 22, 22, 9, 16(so far) over the last 4 seasons) Milito (17 goals in 24 games in spain), Klaas Jan Huntelaar (could be intesting having an all dutch strike force) Klose... plus many more which I can't think of right now.

(incidently Pongolle has 9 goals in 14 games at the mo, but I doubt he will return now, espec with Voronin coming here)

Priority 2 : Left Winger

Kewell's sick note, Gonzo isn't good enough yet, Aurellio/Riise are more wingbacks, and Garcia is..... well Garcia.

We really do need quality on this wing.

I can't think of many at the mo, but Quaresma - from what I've seen of him - is a player in the ronaldo mold - and can play on either flank. (Chelsea are after him apparently - but they already have Robben, J.Cole, and SWP and rarely play with 2 wingers due to accomodating Ballack/Lampard/Essien/Makelele, so if they do buy him, one of them will surely leave - and I wouldn't mind a cheeky bid for joe cole if they do buy another left winger)

Priority 3 : Right Winger

I'm a big fan of wingers as opposed to right midfielders, and would much rather see gerrard in the middle with Alonso, with a dynamic right winger, who can also score goals.
------

To put it another way: goals come from 3 main areas:
Strikers
Wingers
Attacking central midfielders

When the strikers aren't scoring (for example utds 3 strikers are equal in goals to ours) - a team has to rely on wingers and midfielders. utd have giggs, ronaldo and scoles, chelski have robben, lampard, Jcole and SWP.... we have gerrard, sicknote and garcia.

Strikers dont score in every game. therefore:

We need a central midfielder that will get us at least 10 goals a season as well as around 15-20 goals in total coming from our wings. Right now that is all coming from one player: our captain. Alonso/mash/momo are not really the attacking central midfielder type who will go and get that amount of goals, so the mantle rests with Stevie G as our attacking midfielder scoring equal to lampard/scoles etc. We then need 2 wingers who will also help the strikers out. Utd have giggs and ronaldo chipping in the goals. We dont have anyone that fits that mold.

.... basically through all that dribble above (i think i lost myself when writing it, and may well edit it in the morning) - i agree with the synopis of needing a striker and a left winger desperately and a right winger if the right deal comes along. 


Oh and if Palletta doesn't improve, we may need another central defender (unless Arbeloa can play there) because any injury to Carra/Agger would mean Hyypia playing every game for the duration of the injury-which could be a while, and I'm not sure he'd be able to do that next season (he'll be 34 in oct)

[Lando_Griffin]

Rafa needs to sort the signings out this summer or he will be shown the door in 2008/2009..................

Don't talk utter sh*t.

[metalhead]

Yes but be realisitic. Are you prepared to wait that long while he sorts even these basic parts of his game out?

He already knows his basic parts! Sissoko knows how to pass a simple short pass! if he didn't then he wouldn't play football!!! he is just p*ss poor at passing, meaning his average success pass per game is fairly low, but some of his passes actually work in some games. Also the more practice he gets the more he gets better, like they always say "practice makes perfect".

Also, to answer your question, i'm patient enough to wait for a couple of years to judge him as a player.

[DAV]

fine but how can you play Sissoko on a regular basis now, when he isnt the finished article and isnt up to scratch just yet.Gerrard and Alonso should play in the middle with 2 decent wingers. Sissoko is an ideal person to come on as sub when needed, but nothing more at this stage

[metalhead]

fine but how can you play Sissoko on a regular basis now, when he isnt the finished article and isnt up to scratch just yet.Gerrard and Alonso should play in the middle with 2 decent wingers. Sissoko is an ideal person to come on as sub when needed, but nothing more at this stage

If you read in the sissoko thread made like a week ago, many proposed a good arguement on how to use sissoko. I agree that sissoko should be used against high profile games that you need to stop short simple passes (like against barcelona) to go through. In home games Alonso and Gerrard should start because we need to attack, but away, we can use sissoko.

[DAV]

yes as a sub

[stmichael]

I think people are putting too much of the blame on our forwards and not looking at how little we create in some matches. Yes we have X number of shots in a game, but most of them are from outside the area and aren't even half chances. I think the team is crying out for a creative attacking player whether that be Kaka or a left or right winger.

I agree 100% with this. Our creativity and product from midfield has been virtually non-existent this season, especailly with Garcia being injured since January. Gerrard will never score, create or hurt the opposition as much playing centrally as he would do on the right. Alonso doesn't score enough goals for me, Pennant and Gonzalez have scored maybe 4 goals between them and Sissoko hasn't scored yet. Hell our biggest attacking threat in midfield is Riise at times and like you say, most of his efforts are long range ones. Compare this to manure who've got Ronaldo, Giggs and Scholes in midfield who have probably scored 30 goals between and provided countless assists. That's the difference. Their strikers have been no more prolific than ours.

I think another thing we have to bear in mind is that Rafa doesn't want us to play Arsenal style football anyway. Rafa wanst us to play a 442 pressing game that whilst it may play some very good football it will also at its best be able to stop the other team playing a la his Valencia side. He has built the elements that enable us to beat the lesser sides regularly but we still lack the class to regularly beat the top sides. I am sure this last element will be rectified in the summer.

Rafa is a pragmatist whilst Wenger is more of a purist IMO. Whilst Wenger's style of football may be the more pleasing on the eye I think in the long term Rafa's style will prove more effective.

[redmikey]

great thread

people are forgetting that we are in need of right back cover, we are desparate for a left back as warnock has gone fabio won't hack it imo, j a r isn't a great left back while i think he is a good left sided player

left wing will either see kewell make a another come back or leave for spurs, speedy come good which he has had a season to do now but is only showing the smallest glimpses of talent when we were promised alot or be replaced with the power of the dollar

strikers

fowlers gone, voronin to be given a chance but has anyone read,heard or seen anything to be excited about ?

dirk safe as houses but needs to strat taking chances

bellamy, works hard and has shown that all important heart which fans love but has the manger seen enough to keep him on board i'm not sure

crouchy , a player that offers alot and has had clubs sniffing around him when he is not getting games but would he get the support we have given him any where else...... no fecking way

cissie....history?

ping pong is a gonna

signing will be interaesting this summer as we have money and some fans will be gaging for us to slash the cash all over the place but rafa dosn't like having his pants pulled down on the price for players or we would have got owen from real

[Redman in wales]

people are forgetting that we are in need of right back cover

Arbeloa 

[stmichael]

I think we over hyped the squad before the season, but who doesn't? We had cover in every position (bar right back) and a case could be made for every player. As it happened over the course of the first half of the season, Gonzalez is too new to the league, Kewell injured, Riise playing poorly, Sissoko injured, Bellamy struggling pre-court case and whole defence looking shaky.

I think rafa's plan early on (first 2 seasons or so) was always going to be to play the numbers game. It was the only way given the amount of dead wood in our squad and the need for a fresh look to the team. We now have that in Reina, Agger, Kuyt, Alonso, Sissoko, Bellamy, Garcia and Crouch. These are all very good players and added to Carragher, Gerrard, Hyppia, Finnan, Riise and maybe Kewell, makes the basis of an excellent squad. We've added more numbers to that in the likes of Aurelio, Gonzalez, Fowler and tried/trying with Neill. But I think over the summer we maybe hit a brick wall and now is the time to move for quality over quantity (not saying Rafa never wanted quality, but top top quality who will deliver). The biggest place for this is probably on the wings and upfront.

It's all part of the natural process of re-building and maybe a consolidation (wont be calling it that if we're in Athens mind!) season this year will hold us in greater strength over the long term.