Cheating - Interesting article

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Postby Espionage » Mon Oct 30, 2006 7:02 am

Really interesting article and well worth the read

"Henry, Ronaldo + Zokora all guilty - but who will act?"
By Sawyer, 26th October 2006



In a statement issued by FIFA by the World Cup referees and medical officials it was established that a staggering 58% of all those players who were seen to be rolling around in agony were not actually injured. This figure that was arrived at had been confirmed by chief medical officer Jiri Dvorak at the World Cup after medical staff had to report on the injuries during each match.

The most likely reason given was tactics.

Sepp Blatter had initially called for referees to be tough on this sort of thing, but it appears the players of nowadays have mastered the art, if you can call it that, of feigning injury.

With FIFA actually giving the reason as ‘tactics', it almost seems as though they are hiding behind a word that in this case may as well be ‘cheating'.  Manchester United's Cristiano Ronaldo was probably the most high profile player to be constantly caught on camera throwing himself to the floor, but he was by no means the only culprit.  However, the fracas with England and Wayne Rooney primarily made him public enemy No.1, which was followed by some Olympic standard diving in the Semi-Final with France. One attempt to win a penalty was so good he even had to dive to try and get close to touching the opponent before making his heartfelt appeal.

Strangely, when the pressure was off in the play-off match with Germany he had a good game by staying on his feet, which is what he has primarily done for Man United this season.  Less characteristically, which makes it more worrying, was the sight of Thierry Henry going down as though being hit by a missile.  The Arsenal man is usually quite renowned among most professionals and fans as being one of the fairest players around, and it was sad to see him so blatantly looking to con the referee.

Henry was certainly not a persistent offender throughout the tournament, but once is once too many and maybe this could have been behind the Spanish referee disallowing his goal against CSKA Moscow.  Let's hope not, but his theatrics helped France win a free kick from which they levelled against the Spanish and then went on to knock them out. At this point it is only fair to reiterate that these two players are by no means the only culprits and Arjen Robben among many others could easily have been used instead of Ronaldo, and Henry is used solely because it was such a shock to see him do such a thing, as it was with Rivaldo four years earlier.

Didier Zokora won an embarrassing penalty for Tottenham against Portsmouth the other week, and some TV pundits suggested that he may have fallen in anticipation of Pedro Mendez's tackle. Whether this is the case or not, only Zokora will actually know, but he wasn't exactly going to inform the referee of what actually happened so he effectively cheated.

A few years ago David Seaman was deemed to have fouled Liverpool's Robbie Fowler in the area and we had the strange situation of both Seaman and Fowler trying to dissuade the referee from giving a penalty as Fowler had quite clearly not been fouled. Zokora should have done the same; but yet again he is certainly not on his own as a culprit and is used here as an example because the situation was quite recent.

Unfortunately, with so little contact allowed in today's game it is probably true to say that players take advantage of this and go down too easily for free-kicks and penalties, or of course near the end of a match time can be wasted by constantly rolling around and calling for the magic sponge.

The question is what can be done about it?

A referee's job is difficult enough and as more and more players ‘cry wolf' it could even be the players themselves that ultimately suffer.

The incidents involving Chelsea's Petr Cech and Carlo Cudicini were obviously not deemed as initially that serious by referee Mike Riley who may have thought he was being conned by the players, but of course in these instances he certainly wasn't.

For arguments sake, what if a player with Ronaldo or Robben's reputation went down late in a match with a serious injury? Would the referee think immediately about stopping the game? Probably not!

Therefore, harsh penalties for those that do offend may ultimately help the players and make a referee's life a lot easier in to the bargain. After all it is us, the fans, who pay to watch football and if we wanted to see people falling over all the time we may as well go to the circus and laugh at the clowns. The only thing is the clowns won't be getting 30k plus a week.  We already have a fourth official at the side of the pitch that actually does relatively nothing. How about having an impartial doctor who can come on with the physio to access any injury?

If in his opinion the player is faking it then he can inform the fourth official who can issue a three game ban for the player in the referee's report.  If the situation occurred in the final fifteen minutes of the match then the fourth official, on the doctor's advice, could hold the player from returning to the action for five minutes.

For players that dive, punch, spit, etc; then it would make sense to use video evidence and get rid of this stupid rule that exonerates the player if the referee has been deemed to see the incident at the time.
If the referee does see the offence, including diving, then sending off the culprit should be the course of action.

Should Luis Figo have played against England in that World Cup Quarter-Final? Of course not!
Anyone found guilty of diving and other cheating offences; give them a seven to ten game ban depending on the seriousness of the situation taking into account their past record.
These punishments may sound a little excessive, but the hope is that they would never have to be invoked as players would be more concerned with playing football than conning the poor old ref.

The average number of genuine injuries in a 2006 World Cup match has dropped to 2.3 per match from 2.7 in 2002. Strange how the number of bookings and fouls went up then?

FIFA speaks a lot about cleaning up the game, but when will they realise that a simple yellow card is water off a ducks back to most players these days. Stronger measures are needed, but will anyone be brave enough to administer them?


-----------------------------------

Really interesting article.  I think that one of the things that drew me to Liverpool as a club was their sense of fair play.  Nothing frustrates me more then cheating in this fashion, whether its diving, feigning injury or intentional hand-balls.  How often do you see strikers try using "the hand of God" and have their offence laughed off by the referee and go unpunished? I remember sometime last year I made a poll about whether a sin bin was a worthwhile idea in football, as it had such good success in cleaning up rugby league as a sport, it could do the same to football.  Understandable, not everyone would be able to accept a sin bin as part of the game, but I think that all of the changes that Sawyer offers are things that everyone can agree would be in the best interest of the game, for both players and spectators.

I was interested to hear if people thought that this is a problem that needs addressing, and if so, are these adequate strategies to counter-act this negative culture present in the current game?
Last edited by Espionage on Mon Oct 30, 2006 7:07 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby kazza » Mon Oct 30, 2006 9:05 am

I do hate it when players cheat and especially fake injuries or use their hands to control the ball, only to point to their chest claiming that is where the ball hit.

On the diving thing it may not be that simple. Firstly if you are running full speed, it does not take that much contact to have you lose your balance. A slight push in the back or a clip of the ankles while running fast will all make most take a tumble even though if you see it in replay it may not have seemed enough. The player then has two options. He can try to stay on his feet (and most times lose momentum and lose good shooting position) or "allow" himself to fall and take his chances with the ref. Another thing I noticed is when a defender comes in hard many players will instictively dive or jump out of the way to avoid injury. In replays this will always look like diving even though the player may have broken his leg had he not dived.

Point is it is a grey area that may not always be so simple to call. Cheating should be stamped out but unless you can read a players mind you will not be able to read his intentions and afterall cheating is all about intentions.

For what it is worth..
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Postby Espionage » Mon Oct 30, 2006 11:24 am

-The infamous Robben injury inflicted by Pepe. 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MuCHaOIpW6k
You should not be aloud to go down in such a manner. He is obviously attempting to rely that the event is only seen in peripheral vision by the ref and apears much more serious then it is.  Reina still would have been sent off as it desered another yellow for pushing.  But that is not a straight red in my book.  Furthermore Robben should have been further disciplined post match with a 1 match ban.

-Gerrard diving against Portugal. 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L073tGdLETo
I wouldnt say that Gerrard dives here at all.  This is a case where there is either very minimal contact (or he just slips, its hard to tell).  But instead of Gerrard jumping into the air and rolling around on the ground  (in "pain") after he appears bashful for triping over his own feet. 

-Lehmann you diving C__T
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U7CQidMRyCU
Should have been reviewed by the 4th offical and been suspended for a game, absolutely disgraceful....

General diving clip
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9wNm0K2N_eQ
Just not acceptable.......
Last edited by Espionage on Mon Oct 30, 2006 11:26 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby 67-1161385641 » Mon Oct 30, 2006 11:29 am

kazza wrote:I do hate it when players cheat and especially fake injuries or use their hands to control the ball, only to point to their chest claiming that is where the ball hit.

On the diving thing it may not be that simple. Firstly if you are running full speed, it does not take that much contact to have you lose your balance. A slight push in the back or a clip of the ankles while running fast will all make most take a tumble even though if you see it in replay it may not have seemed enough. The player then has two options. He can try to stay on his feet (and most times lose momentum and lose good shooting position) or "allow" himself to fall and take his chances with the ref. Another thing I noticed is when a defender comes in hard many players will instictively dive or jump out of the way to avoid injury. In replays this will always look like diving even though the player may have broken his leg had he not dived.

Point is it is a grey area that may not always be so simple to call. Cheating should be stamped out but unless you can read a players mind you will not be able to read his intentions and afterall cheating is all about intentions.

For what it is worth..

Spot on, well written.
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Postby jkop » Mon Oct 30, 2006 5:30 pm

Espionage wrote:-The infamous Robben injury inflicted by Pepe. 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MuCHaOIpW6k
You should not be aloud to go down in such a manner. He is obviously attempting to rely that the event is only seen in peripheral vision by the ref and apears much more serious then it is.  Reina still would have been sent off as it desered another yellow for pushing.  But that is not a straight red in my book.  Furthermore Robben should have been further disciplined post match with a 1 match ban.

-Gerrard diving against Portugal. 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L073tGdLETo
I wouldnt say that Gerrard dives here at all.  This is a case where there is either very minimal contact (or he just slips, its hard to tell).  But instead of Gerrard jumping into the air and rolling around on the ground  (in "pain") after he appears bashful for triping over his own feet. 

-Lehmann you diving C__T
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U7CQidMRyCU
Should have been reviewed by the 4th offical and been suspended for a game, absolutely disgraceful....

General diving clip
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9wNm0K2N_eQ
Just not acceptable.......

Cheers for that Espionage a couple of dodgy ones there. But a few laughs. :laugh:
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Postby chris316 » Mon Oct 30, 2006 5:42 pm

i hate the feigning injury thing the most,lying on the floor like somebody just hit them with a lump hammer(mr.crouch did it in the first half on saturday,so none of this we're better than the rest stuff!!) i think rafa should take the lads 10 miles down the lancs and watch saints play a bit of rugby league,these lads just get up and get on with it
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Postby wee_boi888 » Tue Oct 31, 2006 12:10 am

Unfortunately, diving can't be stopped. The only way to do it is to have harsh penalties post game from video replays - but what good is that when the team just scored a winning goal from the penalty? Do we deduct their win?

It's too dificult to reinforce, and it will be a blight in the game for a long time to come.

Faking an injury is just as bad, and anyone needing treatment should be off the ground for 10 minutes or something - like a sin bin. It's probably unfair for those with real niggles like a cramp or something, but then gain, harsh punishments is probably the only way to stop the cheats.
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Postby Kharhaz » Tue Oct 31, 2006 1:01 am

Correct me if im wrong but didnt Rivaldo get punished for diving in the game at anfield? he clearly dived and feigned injury when olympiakos were 1-0 up at anfield? He hoped to get the free kick (which he did) but he couldnt take it because he was ordered off the field for treatment which he wasnt happy about, they missed there chance by a mile and went on to lose 3-1 !!
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Postby Raoul » Tue Oct 31, 2006 2:03 am

I honestly can't understand why this is such an issue.

Have all, or a large sample, of senior club and intl matches viewed after the fact by a panel of referees.  They give significant bans to players they deem to be cheating - the rolling around in pain is probably worth a red or yellow, where there is simulation when there is no contact deserves several games/weeks.  Blatant diving (no contact) that results in a penalty which is converted should be punished by either a significant ban against the player, or something like an automatic 3-0 win to the other team, or automatic loss of points against the club - 1 or 2 points may be enough to really have an impact.  We might start seeing coaching sessions where players practise staying on their feet, rather than the other way round.

Yes, a small touch can be all it takes, and yes, slow motion replays can make events look better or worse than they actually are.  Sometimes too, a tackle can cause a lot of pain that passes quickly.  I remember being dumped on my back in a game and the initial pain was excruiating, but it passed very quickly and with no ill effects.  But these things can be worked into the system.  Let us not let them be reasons for allowing the current cheating culture to continue.

Very occasionly an innocent player might get caught up in it, banned when they didn't actually deserve it.  Right now the guilty get away with it all the time, and it's not like they are in front of an jury facing a murder charge. 
After the fact punishments given using video technology will improve football out of sight.  Will it stamp it out of the game?  Of course not.  But it will improve the game out of sight. Can anyone tell me how it won't?
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Postby Espionage » Tue Oct 31, 2006 3:43 am

The problem is that many players dont think that its wrong, they think that its part of the game! 

It is not part of the game and should never be.  Making them public enemy No. 1 by scrutinising every play will definately have a huge impact in the culture of diving.  No more can players go down clutching their face, knowing that from the view of the referee it will be impossible to tell if he has actually been hit. 

I have not been watching Man U this seasos, but apparently Ronaldo has been quite alot better at staying on his feet.  I just dont understand why all players cant be like Gerrard/Carragher/Finnan/Riise/Alonso.  Opposite teams may not like them, but a referee woul never even consider that they dived because its not in their nature. 

IMO this is a big problem, and it should be stamped out at all costs
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Postby chris316 » Tue Oct 31, 2006 9:29 am

Espionage wrote:I just dont understand why all players cant be like Gerrard/Carragher/Finnan/Riise/Alonso.  Opposite teams may not like them, but a referee woul never even consider that they dived because its not in their nature. 


??gerrard is no angel when it comes to diving
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Postby Espionage » Tue Oct 31, 2006 11:59 am

chris316 wrote:
Espionage wrote:I just dont understand why all players cant be like Gerrard/Carragher/Finnan/Riise/Alonso.  Opposite teams may not like them, but a referee woul never even consider that they dived because its not in their nature. 


??gerrard is no angel when it comes to diving

Some people say that he dived to get the penelty in Intanbul, but I dont think that it was a clear-cut dive.  He is running at full speed and gets slightly tapped on the ankle and falls down. He doesnt jump, tumble or clutch his face in agony.  Furthermore, look at the player, he has just ran 30 yards and you think that he is going to take his chances when he was in on goal with a chance to be a hero.....

Show me one situation where he clearly dives....
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Postby Espionage » Tue Oct 31, 2006 12:02 pm

Raoul wrote:Blatant diving (no contact) that results in a penalty which is converted should be punished by either a significant ban against the player, or something like an automatic 3-0 win to the other team, or automatic loss of points against the club - 1 or 2 points may be enough to really have an impact. 

I dont agree with this at all, this is changing the game too much and would cause far too much controversey.

IMO if you gave a 1-3 match ban (depending on the severity) you would this behaviour stop dead in it's tracks.
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Postby ynwa » Tue Oct 31, 2006 2:32 pm

Kharhaz wrote:Correct me if im wrong but didnt  Rivaldo get punished for diving in the game at anfield? he clearly dived and feigned injury when olympiakos were 1-0 up at anfield? He hoped to get the free kick (which he did) but he couldnt take it because he was ordered off the field for treatment which he wasnt happy about, they missed there chance by a mile and went on to lose 3-1 !!

there goal came from a free kick and no one toched the player if i think about it i am sure it was Rivaldo who dived
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Postby dawson99 » Tue Oct 31, 2006 2:41 pm

dubious decisions people should ook at divs and retrospectively ban the player for 1-3 games as said. this would quickly get rid of diving.
Ps - maureen, i think eider was diving way before he went to barca, ask xabi, he'll know what im on about
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