6 + 5 rule? - Yes or no?

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6 + 5 rule? - Yes or no?

I'm in favour of the proposal
24
35%
I'm against the proposal
45
65%
 
Total votes : 69

Postby LFC2007 » Wed May 28, 2008 4:44 am

WARNING - REQUIRES READING.


Background:

SYDNEY (Reuters) - FIFA president Sepp Blatter will forge ahead with plans to curb the number of foreign players at football clubs, saying on Tuesday that his organisation should coral the world of sport into helping make it happen.

The Swiss head of world football's governing body insisted that FIFA would not be "going into confrontation" with any employment laws by pursuing the foreign quota proposal and that they should explore all means possible to implement it as a rule.

Blatter's so-called "6+5" proposal -- which would limit the number of foreign players to start any club match to five -- has sparked a battle of ideologies in global football.

Opponents say it would be an unworkable regulation which contravenes the European Union's free movement of workers rules.

Blatter, however, insists foreign quotas are necessary to ensure the sport's growth and well-being and to prevent a handful of rich clubs dominating honours.

"This is a subject close to my heart," he told reporters.

"I want to protect the national teams and prevent leagues having only a small number of clubs with any chance of winning the title."

Given the weight of legal opposition to his plans, it had been suggested Blatter would merely ask the Congress this week for a mandate to examine the issue further, representing something of a climbdown from asking it to endorse the plan.

Speaking at a FIFA executive committee meeting in Sydney on Tuesday, the Swiss insisted this was not the case, however, though what he will ask Congress for is to "explore all possible means within the limits of law" to make it happen.

"MORE THAN TALK"

"It is more than just further talks and investigation," Blatter insisted.

"The confederations have said they are in favour of the objectives of 6+5, but we should achieve this through negotiation not confrontation.

"It is now up to the congress to see if they support it.

"We say that the congress shall request the FIFA and UEFA presidents together with the world of sport, including the International Olympic Committee and international sports federations to explore -- not only to discuss -- to explore all possible means within the limits of law to implement this rule.

"I can tell you now already that on June 5, I have a meeting with the president of the European Parliament in Brussels.

"So now we go to our congress (to make) its resolution but again I say we are not going into confrontation because we are exploring all these means and possibilities in respect of laws.

"It is not only European laws, there are other laws, national laws or supranational laws."

In Brussels, a spokesman for European Parliament president Hans-Gert Poettering confirmed next week's meeting with Blatter, but described it as "purely exploratory".

The assembly, which would have to approve any exemptions for football from EU laws, already voted against Blatter's plan earlier this month.

Blatter is not convinced that his proposal would contravene European laws because it merely restricts the number of foreign players who start each game and does not place any restrictions on the number of foreign players who sign contracts with clubs.

COLLISION COURSE

He hopes to introduce the quota from 2010 with a minimum of four home players, going up to five in 2011 and the full six by 2012.

The issue had set Blatter on a collision course with European football's governing body UEFA as well as the European Parliament.

UEFA chief Michel Platini had made it clear he was not prepared to "burn his fingers in Brussels" with what he considers an "impossible" ruling.

Blatter's comments on Tuesday suggests he feels he may have a case to impose the ruling without contravening any laws.


Link



In summary, Blatter's proposal intends to limit the number of foreign players able to start any club match for a club to just 5 (FIVE) players.

The proposal aims to i) Protect national teams*, ii) Give smaller clubs (e.g. Everton) a greater chance of competing in national and confederate competitions (UEFA in our case).

Blatter:

The figures from the five main European championships (Germany, England, Spain, France and Italy) are not that far away from '6+5'. 43% of squads are made up of players who are not eligible. England and Germany are the only ones who are above 50%.


(Source: FIFA)

I was puzzled that he used these stat's, as the correct stat(s) in relation to the 6+5 rule would be the average number of foreign (non-eligible) players in a starting line up per game (or the average number of eligible players). Why he uses those stat's are beyond me as the size of any given squad can vary greatly, and the 6+5 rule does not intend to limit the number of foreign players within a squad (so long as it contains 6 eligible or 'home' players). Essentially, if the 6+5 rule came in the percentage of squads made up of foreign players could conceivably increase.

Anyhow, onto the debate.

The arguments in favour of the proposal are basically as follows:

Proponents of the rule argue that it would guarantee a minimum level of "local, regional or national identity" as eligible (home association) players would be guaranteed regular playing time. Clubs would be forced to invest time and money in signing and developing eligible players. In relation to the national team of each association, supporters of the proposal believe this guaranteed emphasis on developing home talent would ultimately lead to a stronger national side. In the words of Blatter himself, "We are fighting for youth training and this goes all the way up to the national teams." *Blatter does not see the proposal as a way of reducing the power and means of the richest clubs, rather a way of making the less well off "stand a chance", as at present, in the five main European championships, "four-fifths of the teams are battling to avoid relegation to a lower division". Again in his words, "It is the proof that a minority of clubs control everything - money, players and means." Ultimately, Blatter (and proponents of the proposal) believe that without intervention, "the fairness of the sport will be further endangered and identification with national teams is going to disappear". "In the end it will all be down to money, there will be no more sporting competition or local or regional sentiment".


Au contraire:

Opponents of the proposal would argue that it constitutes a restriction of trade by contravening EU law, more specifically relating to the free movement of workers and the principle of equal treatment. Article 39 of the EC treaty states that EU citizens have the "right to take up an activity in another Member State under the same conditions as apply to its own nationals". Further to that it states that, "The recruitment of Community nationals may not be restricted in number or percentage nor depend on criteria which are discriminatory by comparison with those applied to nationals". Whilst Blatter argues that the proposal would not constitute a restriction of trade as it does not place restrictions on the number of foreign players who sign contracts with clubs, others disagree, and so do the E.U. Parliament. The recruitment of a player on the basis that upon signing they will be fundamentally restricted in opportunity by virtue of the quota, does not fall in line with E.U. legislation. The opportunity to play games equates to the opportunity to work and the very fact that most players have some form of performance related pay clause within their contracts is firm enough evidence of this. I'd surprised if the attempt by Blatter to distinguish was ultimately successful - indeed the E.U. Parliament rejected the proposal by 518 votes to 49.
Aside from the legality of the proposal, opponents have other reservations relating to the proposal. Existing clubs have many foreign players already, the process of getting to a stage whereby you can reach the quota would take a while. In the intervening period between its discussion (now) and its proposed implementation (beginning 2010), teams simply wouldn't have the time to develop youth players and the price of 'eligible' current players would sky rocket - who would purchase them? The richest clubs. Revamping the Academy system - esp. regards it's training techniques takes time, a lot of time. English clubs would be at a detriment in that respect, and whilst it would force the FA to focus on getting it right at that level, in the intervening period (we're talking a decade), English clubs would have to rely on a limited pool of players, with a comparitively poor technical level compared to many other nations in Europe. In terms of UEFA competition, I think it;s fair to say you'd see fewer of the world's best combinations playing together. Combinations of great players that is, and in that respect I've no doubt it would decrease the quality of UEFA competion, and potentially FIFA competitions as players from the likes of Brazil and Argentina would have less of an opportunity of playing in Europe - where the very best already play. Either that or they'd head for the lesser European teams, diminishing their opportunity to play for the best teams - which would suit nicely Blatter objective number 2.


*Although Blatter does seek to restrict the means of the richest clubs, "the '6+5' rule supports another European Law, namely regarding having the broadest and fairest possible competition and restricting the concentration of finances and economic monopolies". In other words, he is seeking to prevent the richest clubs from dominating national/confederate competitions even further.



My view: I disagree with the proposal for most of reasons cited in the opposing arguments part - mainly because the stranglehold by the richest clubs on home 'eligible' players would be enormous. In principle, I can understand its intentions but in reality I think the proposal is impractical and if implemented would ultimately be futile.

Note to Mod's: I thought I'd put this in general discussion - seeing as it's a pretty significant proposal (even though it's quite unlikely).

*It's a subject that's been mentioned before, but I thought I'd elaborate on it.
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Postby Rush Job » Wed May 28, 2008 5:03 am

Against it, im hoping it ends up being 3 or 4 tops, 6 is way to far and will just cause a mad scramble for the best home grown players. The strengh of the league will suffer imho.
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Postby Toffeehater » Wed May 28, 2008 5:49 am

against it , but i feel there should at least be 4 homegrown players / english players in every starting line up .
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Postby ConnO'var » Wed May 28, 2008 6:01 am

To be honest, I'm kinda torn between the 2 but I am leaning in the "for" column a tad more than the "against" one.... but not by much.

As an Englishman making a living in a foreign country, I guess you could say it's a little hypocritical. Don't get me wrong, I'm all for this "getting the best that's available out there" malarkey but in recent years, I think that this has been taken just a little too far. I start to question whether all the players from distant lands currently plying their trade in the premiership is really the "best available option". Oft times I get the impression that these players are brought in not because they're better than the local lads but rather cheaper. I'm not talking about the Torreses, Mascheranos, Tevezes and Ronaldos of this world..... these guys are clearly outstanding and are head and shoulders above 95% of the British lads available..... but there are quite a few players who have graced our shores in the so-called weaker teams (and our own for that matter... ahem... Traore and Diao) that have me questioning the wisdom of bringing them here.

Surely there are our own lads out there who can easily match their ability? Or is it a case that we've not looked hard enough simply because theres no need for it when we can cast our net abroad for ready made players who are likely to be cheaper and require less investment in developing them...

Don't mistake this as xenophobic as I'm far from that but at some point, we do need to protect our local talent.

Think about it.... Outside of football, we'd be a little unhappy if our jobs were being taken away by others from another part of the world simply because they are cheaper and more abundant than ourselves... I'm sure of it. Put the shoe on the feet of our local aspiring footballers.... their chances will be limited simply due to the reduction of available opportunity.

And based on s@int's chart in the Torres thread, all the foreign talent coming into the league does not guarantee success for the teams hiring them. On the contrary, while it may be true for some clubs like ourselves, Arsenal and Chelsea (which proves that if you get the best foreign players it does pay off).... it is also true that the premiership champions have a significantly higher number of englishmen in their starting line up and that relegated teams like birmingham and reading are closer to the bottom of s@int's chart..... not to mention Fulham.

So having a good number of foreign players in one's squad does not guarantee success or a good showing in the premiership. It's the quality of the imports that matter...... Perhaps restricting the number of imports will help in us, as a nation, being a bit more selective instead of going for the willy nilly scattergun approach. Perhaps then, our young 'uns would run out of the excuse that they're not being given a fair shot at the big time.
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Postby Toffeehater » Wed May 28, 2008 6:04 am

good post mate
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Postby Effes » Wed May 28, 2008 6:07 am

The thing is, it's the biggest clubs who can invest in acadamiies and the likes to
get the young English players to join.

Blatter is trying to manufacture more competitive leagues, but the fact remains that the
bigger clubs will always be able to gain an advantage.
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Postby ruskiy playmaker » Wed May 28, 2008 6:10 am

Totally against it.  The reason this league is so popular is because of the foreign players.  If the English players could improve their technique and game intelligence then why not, but the quality of football would definitely go down.  I think that Blatter should keep his mouth shut(can't stand the :censored:).
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Postby account deleted by request » Wed May 28, 2008 7:41 am

No chance - BUT if it did somehow go through, I think we may suffer more than most. While the mancs and Chelsea would hardly stutter as they just changed the focus of their buying to English players. We unfortunately aren't exactly flush with cash at the moment, and while no doubt we would get decent amounts for the foreign players we sold, we wouldn't be able to compete with the mancs and Chelsea for the cream. We are struggling to bring in top quality players now with all of Europe to shop in, how much harder would it be with only England/English players to buy.

I am sure within a short space of time many English clubs would revert back to their old roles as feeder clubs, the same few rich clubs would return to their positions at the top and the only people who would really suffer would be the fans, as the standard of football in the prem dropped.

While I think the idea has merit in theory, its just unworkable in practise.

My five foreigners would be  :D  :-

Reina
Agger
Mascherano
Torres
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Postby NiftyNeil » Wed May 28, 2008 8:15 am

I can never see it happening, but I'd be for it. It would force clubs into developing their own talent and give more opportunity for youngsters to break into the first team.
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Postby NJD83 » Wed May 28, 2008 8:36 am

Am up for it, but don't see how it would make the league more competetive, it will just be the same but with the big clubs buying the best England has to offer, I do think British teams will suffer in Europe though!!! I also think it would help the national team, as it would force teeams to play young local talent, look at what Bentley has turned into after being told he was not good enough by Arsenal, just think how many of youngsters may have slipped through the net due to not being able to get passed Alonso, Hyypia, Torres etc.... I for get much for excited about watching a young British player do well than an import.
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Postby tubby » Wed May 28, 2008 9:07 am

Im all for it if it means we will be developing out own homgrown talent on a more regular basis. This would of course mean that Chelsea, Utd and Arsenal would get all the best English players. We can barley compete now with the mid tier English players so if it came into effect then we would be really :censored:.
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Postby NiftyNeil » Wed May 28, 2008 9:13 am

bavlondon wrote:This would of course mean that Chelsea, Utd and Arsenal would get all the best English players.

Why do you say that? It's a bit pessimistic don't you think?
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Postby tubby » Wed May 28, 2008 9:15 am

NiftyNeil wrote:
bavlondon wrote:This would of course mean that Chelsea, Utd and Arsenal would get all the best English players.

Why do you say that? It's a bit pessimistic don't you think?

No not really. We cant afford to buy any decent players outright now. Torres and Masch were bought with loans and if we are going to get Barry its not going to come until Rafa has wheeled and dealed some. Decent English players are over inflated in price due to the fact that they are rare now. I can maybe see us getting Bently but if it came to a bidding war with the rest of the top 4 can you honestly see us coming out on top?
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Postby tommycockles » Wed May 28, 2008 10:16 am

Blatter's only against it as he's trying to slow the rise of the premiership, if it was the french, italian or spanish league then he wouldn't be so vocal but as it's the premiership he's all for giving us a kicking.

Two leagues that will benefit from this is the Spanish or Portuguese as half of South Americans have dual nationality- there'll be spanish great-great grandparents materialising everywhere!

I would like to see 4-5 english players in every team but 6 is too much.
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Postby Number 9 » Wed May 28, 2008 10:17 am

No way I want this to happen!
Its legal for anyone from anywhere in the EU to come here and start work get a house and live as an honourary Brit!
Its also legal for them to come and not work and sponge off the state!

So why should footballers with a genuine talent in a profession that generates millions for the state every year be any different??
It will never happen its a form of discrimination and contradicts the whole idea of the EU and freedom to go where you want within the union!
There will be all sorts of human rights lawsuits taken against such a rule,it would be a mess!
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