Thatcher told drunk fans caused Hillsborough,

Hillsborough remembrance and related information

Postby lakes10 » Thu Mar 15, 2012 2:12 pm

Thatcher told drunk fans caused Hillsborough, 1989 papers showBy Jon Manel

BBC Radio 4

Bereaved families have been calling for the release of secret government and police papers about the disaster Continue reading the main story


Former PM Margaret Thatcher was told a senior Merseyside police officer blamed "drunken Liverpool fans" for causing the Hillsborough disaster, confidential government documents have revealed.

The BBC has seen leaked briefings about Britain's worst sports tragedy.

Ninety-six football fans died after a crush on overcrowded terraces at an FA Cup Semi Final in April 1989.

The official inquiry said the disaster was caused by the failure in crowd control by South Yorkshire Police.

Letters to and from 10 Downing Street and cabinet minutes that show what Mrs, now Lady, Thatcher was discussing and being told behind the scenes have been made public for the first time by BBC Radio 4's The World at One.

For years, the families of those who died have been calling for the release of secret government and police papers relating to the disaster.

The government has agreed that this will happen.

The Hillsborough Independent Panel, set up in 2009, is reviewing hundreds of documents but they are not expected to be made available to the families of those who died or to the wider public until later this year.

It is thought there will be thousands of pages to sift through.

The most controversial issue in the papers that the BBC has seen relates to what Mrs Thatcher was being told about the views of some senior members of the Merseyside Police Force.

'Deeply ashamed'

They are contained in a letter sent to the prime minister from a member of her policy unit in Downing Street. Four days after the disaster, the adviser attended a long planned meeting with the Chief Constable of Merseyside Police, the late Sir Kenneth Oxford, and some of his senior colleagues.

It is important to bear in mind that this was written just days after the Hillsborough disaster and the views of the chief constable and those of his senior officers may well have changed over the subsequent weeks.

According to the letter, the Merseyside chief constable said: "A key factor in causing the disaster was the fact that large numbers of Liverpool fans had turned up without tickets.

"This was getting lost sight of in attempts to blame the police, the football authorities, etc."

The prime minister was informed that a senior member of the Merseyside Police directly blamed supporters: "One officer, born and bred in Liverpool, said that he was deeply ashamed to say that it was drunken Liverpool fans who had caused this disaster, just as they had caused the deaths at Heysel."

This officer is not named.

Hundreds were injured and 39 supporters died when rioting Liverpool fans charged Juventus fans before the 1985 European Cup Final at the Heysel stadium on 29 May 1985. It led to a blanket ban of English clubs from European competition for five years.

More of the views of the chief constable are also referred to: "He deplored the press's morbid concentration on pictures of bodies. He was also uneasy about the way in which Anfield was being turned into a shrine."

Direct to Downing Street

There is nothing in the documents the BBC has seen about any briefings from South Yorkshire Police. It is possible more will become known about that when many other confidential papers are officially released in a few months time.


Instead, we have learnt about the controversial views of some of Liverpool's own senior police officers and how, just days after the disaster, they were being passed on directly to 10 Downing Street and to Mrs Thatcher.

Other Downing Street papers seen by the BBC provide an insight into what the prime minister was saying and discussing with her cabinet colleagues in the days after Hillsborough.

The main issue of discussion contained in these documents was the effect the disaster was going to have on controversial legislation aimed at controlling the behaviour of football fans.

The Football Spectators' Bill was already going through Parliament. The government was determined to continue with it, in order to introduce a national membership scheme for the sport. This would have brought in what were dubbed as identity cards for football fans.

According to the conclusions of the first cabinet meeting to take place after the disaster, Mrs Thatcher told her ministers that the situation on crowd safety and hooliganism at football matches "cried out for action".

The government wanted the legislation to be passed in time for the following year's World Cup finals in Italy - to reduce the prospect of crowd trouble. The meeting also discussed using it to bring in any interim recommendations from the Hillsborough Inquiry.

'Gravest matter'

In another meeting with senior cabinet colleagues which took place on the same day, the prime minister said: "To abstain from taking action… would be the gravest possible matter, now that the need for this action had been so conclusively demonstrated."

Five days later, Home Secretary Douglas Hurd met the man conducting the official inquiry into Hillsborough, Lord Justice Taylor.

A letter written by a civil servant at the Home Office says Mr Hurd told the judge about the government's proposed new timetable to get the football spectators' legislation passed by Parliament.

He then asked Lord Justice Taylor what he would say if the government went ahead with this and then asked "…whether he was really quite sure that it was out of the question to form and express a view on the subject of membership cards in the three and a half months… between the start of the inquiry… and the end of August?"

According to the letter, Lord Justice Taylor told him that "this was possible, but he was not confident that it could be achieved".

He said his priority was establishing the facts of what had happened at Hillsborough and could not promise to come up with any recommendations on membership cards in time to fit in with the government's political schedule.

The prime minister was told what had happened in a briefing note from her principal private secretary, who informed her: "Lord Justice Taylor was distinctly unhelpful."

In the end, the government did press ahead with its plans and the law was passed. However, the following year, in his report, Lord Justice Taylor said he had "grave doubts" about the feasibility of football membership cards and "serious misgivings" about the scheme's likely impact on safety. As a result of his concerns, the government dropped the scheme and it was never implemented
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Postby SouthCoastShankly » Thu Mar 15, 2012 2:29 pm

Will be good to see the documents in full when released.

Interesting to see what comes out of this apparent slur upon the victims and other attendees at Hillsborough that day by the Merseyside police. If it is true, that in itself is enormously damaging as it essentially pointed fingers at supporters and fed this onto the government.
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Postby stmichael » Thu Mar 15, 2012 2:57 pm

who the bloody hell is leaking this stuff?
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Postby Greavesie » Thu Mar 15, 2012 3:03 pm

seems a very selective leak if you ask me, who's let this information out but none of the rest?

This doesn't really show anything, I'd rather know the views of South Yorkshire police. Nice that it also says LJ Taylor was found to be unhelpful when his findings completely contradict what's said there.
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Postby stmichael » Thu Mar 15, 2012 3:19 pm

the headline on the bbc website is a disgrace :veryangry
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Postby Greavesie » Thu Mar 15, 2012 3:28 pm

stmichael wrote:the headline on the bbc website is a disgrace :veryangry


guaranteed the simpletons follow the headline and read the article in that slant, same with the Suarez episode
All round the fields of Anfield Road
Where once we watched the King Kenny play (and could he play!)
Stevie Heighway on the wing
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Postby lakes10 » Thu Mar 15, 2012 3:32 pm

stmichael wrote:the headline on the bbc website is a disgrace :veryangry


i dont think you see what the bbc are doing, they are backing the City of Liverpool all the way here.
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Postby Greavesie » Thu Mar 15, 2012 4:18 pm

lakes10 wrote:
stmichael wrote:the headline on the bbc website is a disgrace :veryangry


i dont think you see what the bbc are doing, they are backing the City of Liverpool all the way here.


The article does seem to detract from the headline on a few occasions. Though some will simply see the headline and go with it, thats the issue
All round the fields of Anfield Road
Where once we watched the King Kenny play (and could he play!)
Stevie Heighway on the wing
We had dreams and songs to sing
'Bout the glory, round the Fields of Anfield Road

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YNWA 15/4/1989
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Postby supersub » Thu Mar 15, 2012 4:31 pm

Greavesie wrote:
lakes10 wrote:
stmichael wrote:the headline on the bbc website is a disgrace :veryangry


i dont think you see what the bbc are doing, they are backing the City of Liverpool all the way here.


The article does seem to detract from the headline on a few occasions. Though some will simply see the headline and go with it, thats the issue



And the powers that be that leaked the information know full well only the headline will stick in the peoples minds....just watch the anti liverpool cretins pour scorn once again.
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Postby SouthCoastShankly » Thu Mar 15, 2012 5:26 pm

More importantly if it is true what does it say about the Merseyside police throughout all of this?
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Postby lakes10 » Thu Mar 15, 2012 5:30 pm

well i think its clear by the posts that are being made on twitter and what is being said on the rado it has not taken anything away from what its about and has helped a lot in showing what happend and why things had been said, it would be good to find out who this liverpool policeman is.
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Postby Roger Red Hat » Thu Mar 15, 2012 5:34 pm

and now the BBC have changed the headline.
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Postby stmichael » Thu Mar 15, 2012 7:09 pm

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Postby Kenny Kan » Tue Mar 20, 2012 12:52 pm

'Milk snatcher' was led up the garden path by some group or organisation in regards to 'who was to blame'. Their evidence was probably just hearsay and that was enough for her, she didn't like football and it's hooligans in the 80's. So even though it wouldn't have taken a lot to twist her arm - somebody misinformed the woman. Merseyside police   ???
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Postby lakes10 » Wed Mar 21, 2012 1:12 am

Hillsborough: Government inquiry into papers leak
Theresa May told MPs in the House of Commons that the leak inquiry is under way Continue reading the main story
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An inquiry is under way into a leak which led to the early publication of documents relating to the Hillsborough disaster, the Home Secretary has said.

Theresa May told MPs the Cabinet Office was investigating how the documents made their way to the BBC.

A media report last week revealed a briefing received by Margaret Thatcher, the prime minister at the time, days after the disaster in 1989.

Ninety-six Liverpool fans died after being crushed at the Sheffield stadium.

The leaked documents showed that an unnamed Merseyside officer wrongly suggested drunken fans were to blame in the briefing to Mrs Thatcher.

Hillsborough Families Support Group's Margaret Aspinall said the claim was "a disgrace".

Documents review
Continue reading the main story

Start Quote
There are many who believe this leak could only have come from either a senior politician, a senior civil servant or by the BBC themselves having access to this sensitive documentation”
End Quote
Steve Rotherham

Labour MP
Ninety-five lost their lives at Hillsborough, after the crush on overcrowded terraces during the FA Cup Semi Final in April 1989. The 96th victim Tony Bland died in 1992 after the Law Lords allowed his artificial feeding to be stopped.

The official inquiry said the disaster was caused by the failure in crowd control by South Yorkshire Police.

Delivering his report into the disaster in 1990, Lord Justice Taylor said the "great majority were not drunk or even the worse for drink," and said that "some officers, seeking to rationalise their loss of control, overestimated the drunkenness in the crowd".

Thousands of documents relating to the disaster are being reviewed by the Hillsborough Independent Panel, in advance of their publication to families.

Mrs May referred to the inquiry when responding to a point of order made in the House of Commons by Labour MP Steve Rotherham.

He said: "There are many who believe this leak could only have come from either a senior politician, a senior civil servant or by the BBC themselves having access to this sensitive documentation."

Mrs May said: "There is a leak inquiry that has been initiated by the Cabinet Office.

"I share the concerns which have been expressed in raising the point of order in relation to the impact leaks of this sort have on what is a very sensitive matter in relation to ensuring the full information is put together by the Hillsborough Panel.

"And information in any document, I believe, should be shown to the families first and should not be leaked to the press in any form."
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