Liverpool FC Forum

by **davo_LFC** » Thu Jun 15, 2006 11:12 pm

Fat frank lampard junior was shocking today, how many chances did he miss. Utter w@nk. WHY THE FU.CK does gerrard have to compensate for fat franks difficencies by being forced to stay back whilst that fat kunt goes forward to bloon shot after shot over the bar. He should be dropped for a holding midfielder and gerrard should be let of the leash. Maybe it was an off day for him but i think his presence in the team seriously hinders englands tactics. Sven doesnt have the balls to drop him though so...

by **Bad Bob** » Fri Jun 16, 2006 12:13 am

0asis wrote:
deejay-cgt wrote:drop lampard,bring beckham over in the centre and put lennon on the right and we be sorted

I'd drop Beckham, his freekicks today were woeful and that basically all he offers England, freekicks and crosses, I'd much rather have a midfield of

Downing.......Carrick.......Gerrard......Lennon.

On the contrary...

Beckham delivered two crosses to Crouchy that were inch perfect...only one of which the big lad converted. Were it not for Becks, England might well have been blanked today. Beckham can be inconsistent in his delivery but he also provides service that no one else in the team provides. Dropping him for Lennon would be a mistake, IMO. Lennon came on and caused problems right away but each time he beat his man--which was a fair few times--his final ball was poor. He's the ideal impact sub, not a starter.

As for the Gerrard/Lampard conundrum, I think this all a bit of a tempest in tea cup. TBH. Lampard worked himself into some great positions today and had chances that he ordinarily buries. He didn't but I won't bet against him delivering the goods next time round if he gets into those same positions.

As for Gerrard, goal aside, I thought that he had a laboured game. Everyone talks about Stevie being wasted in the holding role and I agree for two reasons:

1) (to repeat what most are saying) it's preventing him from getting forward into dangerous shooting positions at the edge of the box consistently enough

BUT

2) it's causing Stevie to dredge up some bad old habits--ie too many 'hollywood balls' into tight, well-defended spaces. I thought I was watching the Houllier-era Liverpool there for a while, with some of his passing. He kept trying to thread the needle when the simple pass or driving forward himself would have been a better option. It was evident to me today just how valuable Alonso is to us because he takes over as the string-pulling playmaker and allows Stevie to concentrate on being all-action. When Stevie needs to dictate play with his passing from deep positions it often goes a bit pear-shaped because he doesn't have the patience to build the play up slowly.

Which brings me back to Beckham. Did you notice how he played through the centre on occasion today, with Stevie pushing up the right (before the substitutions)? I know it's been tried with limited results, but it may be worth putting him back in the middle as the holding midfielder and playing Stevie down the right, like this:

J. Cole Lampard Beckham Gerrard

Sure, Beckham has a taste for 'hollywood balls' too but he's a shade more effective at them, I'd suggest. Putting him in the middle would still allow him to deliver tricky balls into the box (providing he pushed out toward the right flank a bit in the attacking end) and it would free Stevie up to maurade about and cause problems. Let's face it, Becks ain't going to beat his man and drive to the byline these days so you might as well play him centrally and let him dictate proceedings from there. Who knows, it might even help the penny drop for Lampard and allow him to start putting his chances away?!?

by **Good Bob** » Fri Jun 16, 2006 12:29 am

A midfield or Lampard, Gerrard, Cole and Beckham won't win anything.

Beckham is allowed to drift infield to much, not his best position. He then causes the team to have a lack of width on the right.

Joe Cole is NEVER a left winger and always cuts inside to his natural position. He's a central midfielder. He then gives the team a lack of width on the right.

Frank Lampard isn't good enough. Anyone who sits there and honestly says he's an international player is clueless.

Gerrard is only performing at 50% playing as a holding midfielder.

The team lacks creativety as Cole's out of position and the others lack immagination and invention. There's not much pace in there and there isn't the right mix.

by **Fowler_E7** » Fri Jun 16, 2006 1:01 am

if sven had any balls he'd drop lampard for a centre mid who can actually keep possesion and dictate the pace( Carrick) and take Beckham of with 20 minutes to go for Lennon, who can run a tired Left back ragged. Englands game is so one dimensional it's embarrising, how many long ball's are played in the game? are the England team completly unable to short pass to each other? every player is to impatient and wants to thump it long with a "killer" ball, until they learn how to keep possesion they wont win anything

by **Lando_Griffin** » Fri Jun 16, 2006 1:25 am

Only a complete w*nker would play Fat b*stard again for England.

Useless :censored:

.

If it were not for Liverpool, England would be looking at a tricky game vs Sweden, especially as that wankbandit Sven is a swede.

He's also a f*cking cabbage. :angry:

by **account deleted by request** » Fri Jun 16, 2006 1:42 am

A midfield or Lampard, Gerrard, Cole and Beckham won't win anything

I agree they need much more discipline if we have to stick with these four

Beckham is allowed to drift infield to much, not his best position. He then causes the team to have a lack of width on the right

Totally agree

Joe Cole is NEVER a left winger and always cuts inside to his natural position. He's a central midfielder. He then gives the team a lack of width on the right.

Totally agree

Frank Lampard isn't good enough. Anyone who sits there and honestly says he's an international player is clueless

I must be clueless because he is an international player who could do a great job with a real holding midfielder such as Carrick, hes just not as good as Gerrard as central/attacking midfielder so he should be dropped to allow Gerrard the better player more freedom.

Gerrard is only performing at 50% playing as a holding midfielder.

Agree again 100%

The team lacks creativety as Cole's out of position and the others lack immagination and invention. There's not much pace in there and there isn't the right mix.

I agree with the lack of imagination and invention and that the mix is wrong, but I dont really agree that lack of pace is a major problem, Gerrard is quick and the rest are ok. I just think it would be nice to see them pass their way through a defence occasionally instead of "Hollywood balls " or hit and hope crosses. Cole dwells on the ball too long and the other 3 dont seem to know how to play a short passing game.

by **66-1112520797** » Fri Jun 16, 2006 7:11 am

I'm sure the optimists out there, if there are any will see that after todays game the negatives badly outweigh the positives. Where do I start to with that performance ?
As Sven is the first obvious target for yet another laboured England performance, we all know that he lacks the passion and tactical know how, brains whatever you want to call it to be one of the highest paid managers in world football. But for now I'll leave him alone and try and point out what happened out there, from the moment the ball was kicked off. England looked like they expected to turn up and win a match without even breaking sweat. We can forget about watching football when it comes to England as they seem to take a leaf out of ' the Wimbledon route one book'. Of course this is what Sven encourages so the main culprit for this was Ferdinand. He wanted the ball off Robinson and his first line of thought was knock it long to Crouch. The equally frustrating Crouch would either be barged off the ball, not find his target in the knock downs, or the ball would never get to him because the passes were telegraphed all day long. There goes 'Plan A' out the window ! Can SOMEONE answer me this why cant England pass the ball through midfield like EVERY other country in the WC ? It seems that the only players to keep possession for any length of time are the defence, when the balls harmlesly in our own half.

For the first 20 mins Jole Cole looked the liveliest and actually worked well down the left flank with his name sake Andy. The left mid doesnt look like the problem position anymore its the opposite side now that looks like it lacks any purpose about it. Beckham again wasnt doing enough out on the right and with Cara behind him neither looked like causing problems down the T&T left flank. Call me biased but the one player who did retain and keep possession was Stevie in the middle, he's the only player apart from J.Cole who looks comfortable withe the ball at his feet. He passes long he passes it short, most of the time the latter, his passing was excellent whether searching for a player on a run or keeping it simple the ball always looked like getting to its intended player.

Lampard, well the less said the better he was f.ucking awful and always was looking for that "Hollywood" pass. He started bad and got worse, he actually looked out of his depth yesterday. His confidence was gone by the second half and looked like a rabbit caught in the headlights of an oncoming car. With the midfield not producing and the lacklusture Ferdinand looking like a ti.t in a trance with those long balls. It wasnt anywonder Owen could never get in the game, poor bugg.er he had no service all day. And was trying to feed off of any scraps or knock downs Crouch was giving him. To me thats not Crouch's game unlike Heskey whos was, that was the only thing England really got of Heskey. Even with Crouch's height you'd think he'd be a bit better, but he needs it to feet aswell imo.

Second half came and the cries of 'Rooney Rooney' were almost embarrasing. 60 minutes have gone Svens getting hot under the collar as he can see tomorrows headlines before him. So he throws on Rooney and Lennon and takes off Cara and Owen. Owen FFS ! Crouch had to go off I'm thinking, just to stop us pumping long balls up to him. With Owen and Rooney on at least we'd have to play some football and probe there defence. Owens a big game player I couldnt believe he was brought off, so then Plan 'B came into the fray. ' Throw the youngens on forget about your formation and all bomb forward at any given oppotunity. In fairness T&T looked the likeliest to score catching us more than a few times on the counter, with just AshleyCole and Terry back with Gerrard covering. Ferdinand went walkabout FFS ! any of the top teams would of punished us on the counter attack we were lucky very lucky. When Lennon came on he actually looked useful, he impressed me with his pace and willingness to track back and take on players, he was more productive in half an hour than Beckham has been through out 150 minutes of WC football. Well not quite as Beckham then produced the cross to set up Crouch to score Englands first. Usually I hit the roof when Liverpool or Engalnd score, not yesterday they had annoyed me so much by the way they looked in expecting a win rather than WORKING for one. I managed a mere clap (so unlike me). The goal eventually came after England upped the tempo slightly, they had been playing at such a slow pace the T&T defence would of had enough time to roll a joint and bun it. The English are well known for an upbeat tempo style, so why play something there not good at ? Finnally the one player who actually had a pretty decent game for the 90 minutes scored a peach of a goal. I was glad for him, he deserved that after being made to cover Lampards @rse all game. Then he comes forward and does what Lampards supposed to do and score a beauty, well done Stevie.

This was how I saw each player ranked against T&T

Robinson 6 - Clean sheet, didnt really have too much to do. But flapped on at least three crosses during the game, didnt inspire me with confidence.

Cara 6 - Shifted to right back, we know he's limited when coming forward supporting the Midfielder (Beckham) and lacks any real pace as he showed. When he managed to get forward once, realised he couldnt beat his man for pace and pushed him over instead. Looked comfortable on the ball and did his defesive duties well.

Ferdinand 6 - Steady in defence, dealt with most aerial threats T&T had to offer, but real wasteful with the ball. The lacklusture kunt eptimised Englands performance.

Terry 7- Apart from giving away three needless fouls in the first half, he became settled as the game went on, didnt really put a footwrong after that. Made a world clearance off the goal line to great defending.

A.Cole 7 - It was hard to pick one as we were so dire but he was my MoM. Bombed down the left flank worked well with Joe cole and was just generally lively. Also he looked good defensively and saved England late in the second half with some timely tackles when they hit us on the counter.

Beckham 6 - Beckham doesnt seem to be able to stamp his authority on a game anymore, and yesterday was no different, an average perfomance from the captain

Gerrard 7 - Obviously couldnt surge forward as much as he would of liked. Did his job well enough and was one of the only few players who could keep the ball on the deck and keep possesion. Wonderful goal too !

Lampard 5 - Woeful !

J.Cole 7 - Looked lively, Our real flair player he produced some nice touches at times worked wellwith A.Cole. Nice to see something a bit different from England in terms of excitement.

Crouch 6 - He really frustrated me yesterday, nothing seemed to be working for him. He tried but for most of the match there was no end product.He Got some silly decisions given against him and the look on his face wound me up more . Eventually scored, but missed an absolute sitter in the first half.

Owen 6 - If this guy, like any striker doesnt get the service he wont score, was unlucky with a header that went wide in the second half. His only chance, apart from that was feeding off scraps.

Subs- Lennon 7 Did really well, much more lively than Beckham
Rooney 6 First game for 7 weeks you couldnt really expect too much
Downing 6 did ok.

by **112-1077774096** » Fri Jun 16, 2006 12:09 pm

Bamaga man wrote:For the first 20 mins Jole Cole looked the liveliest and actually worked well down the left flank with his name sake Andy.

it must be a bummer to sit down and write a great piece of work like this only for a glaring mistake to be found by a reader

by **Ace Ventura** » Fri Jun 16, 2006 1:07 pm

Some decent posts there and good bob the point you are making about Gerrard getting into his old bad habits is spot on.
I said it in the Lampard v Gerrard thread yesterday that all 4 of our midfielders are far to wasteful in posession. It showed time and again yesterday. Beckham Gerrard and Lampard all try and play the killer ball virtually every time they are in posession, not one of them gets it gives it short and moves to create space. Its not hard to do and all of them have the ability to do this. It makes me think it may be down to coaching and tactics, i think they are told to hit the strikers early. It just isnt working, they should watch some of the spanish midfielders in posession, the likes of Alonso Xabi and Albelda are all great in posession and know how to keep moves flowing, and the right time to try and play a killer pass
We really do need to either drop Lampard and play Carrick or get the players to do the simple things and pack the long passing otherwise we will go out before the quarters.

by **66-1112520797** » Fri Jun 16, 2006 1:30 pm

I actually had the misfortune of watching that match again, TBH Gerrard wasnt really that wasteful with the ball. Sure once or twice hit hit em long but he played the pass of the game with the outside of his foot to Beckham. He crossed to Crouchy then Crouchy spooned it on his shin. Another long ball he played was to Ashley Cole only for Owen to intercept lay it back for Lampard to sky. It would be interesting to pick-up the passing stats from yesterday because Gerrard played most of his passes out to feet with the ball on the deck.

With Gerrard shielding the back for its not upto him really to be making the movenment. Ahead of him Lampard, Rooney,Crouch Owen, Cole and Beckham out wide should be making the movenment. All Gerrard needs to do is make himself available for the short options like Alonso does for Liverpool. He really cant keep making forward runs you talk about or the movenment, because of constantly being in fear of leaving the back four exposed.

by **66-1112520797** » Fri Jun 16, 2006 1:36 pm

peewee wrote:
Bamaga man wrote:For the first 20 mins Jole Cole looked the liveliest and actually worked well down the left flank with his name sake Andy.

it must be a bummer to sit down and write a great piece of work like this only for a glaring mistake to be found by a reader

Oh

I was staring at that quote for a while and still couldnt pick up the "glaring" mistake.

I'll leave it there now as a reminder, to always preview your work before you post it.

by **Lionheart** » Fri Jun 16, 2006 1:53 pm

Bamaga man wrote:
peewee wrote:
Bamaga man wrote:For the first 20 mins Jole Cole looked the liveliest and actually worked well down the left flank with his name sake Andy.

it must be a bummer to sit down and write a great piece of work like this only for a glaring mistake to be found by a reader

Oh I was staring at that quote for a while and still couldnt pick up the "glaring" mistake.

I'll leave it there now as a reminder, to always preview your work before you post it.

Yahoo, finally he gets the idea. Hopefully now he'll take his own advice.

by **Judge** » Fri Jun 16, 2006 2:10 pm

peewee wrote:
Bamaga man wrote:For the first 20 mins Jole Cole looked the liveliest and actually worked well down the left flank with his name sake Andy.

it must be a bummer to sit down and write a great piece of work like this only for a glaring mistake to be found by a reader

andy cole, wtf

by **laza** » Sat Jun 17, 2006 5:27 am

Disappointed with England's performance, I really think the talent that is on books they really could produce performances to match the media hype.
Not looking real good though they start peaking at the right time , so says the eternal optimist

by **Scottbot** » Sat Jun 17, 2006 11:09 am

I agree it was a pretty dire performance but the upshot is that England are very unlikely to come up against another team who stick 10 behind the ball like T & T and Paraguay have done so far. I would expect a better performance against the bigger teams who will come out and try to play a bit. That's about as optimistic as i can get.

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