Liverpool FC Forum

by **tonyeh** » Tue Sep 30, 2008 11:40 am

Well, Styles apologised to Bolton yesterday. But a fat lot of good that does. Perhaps a "post-match" red card + 2 match ban should be introduced for blatant divers, once the match has been reviewed. That might stop little fückers like Ronaldo bouncing himself off of the pitch every game.

I can understand it can be very difficult for Ref's to decern between every legit tackle and every bogus dive, so it can be understandable when a Ref awards a free or a penalty to a diver, even when we at home can see an instant replay of the theatrics.

As a Ref, I would be of the opinion that "if in doubt, don't award".

by **RUSHIE#9** » Tue Sep 30, 2008 11:51 am

As a referee I think Rob Styles' credibility is now well and truly gone. Twice in the space of 12 months he's fucked up big style in awarding penalties that never were that have turned a game. Some might say that he has held his hands up and apologised but that has only helped to destroy his credibility. How can he now go onto a football pitch and officiate a game without players questioning his judgement on big decisions and dragging up his past record.

by **Number 9** » Tue Sep 30, 2008 11:59 am

Well since he's apologised and admitted he was wrong Ronaldo should be red carded serve a 3 match ban for cheating!
Never gonna happen though because no one dare annoy sir Alex...it fecking should happen though.
Maybe then Fergie would tell the wee kunt to cut diving out of his game,something he obviously has'nt done till now!
I hate divers...if we had someone that done it as much as Ronaldo id want him out of LFC,no matter how good he was...its the lowest of the low!

by **JoeTerp** » Tue Sep 30, 2008 2:33 pm

Sabre wrote:Much better than the Spanish.

In my opinion its the Spanish linesman that blow a lot of calls, which doesn't even make sense really because there isn't really supposed to be an interpreatation factor with offside (at least in comparison to judging the legality of challeneges constantly throughout a game)

I am very surprised at all of this referee bashing because its not really something that we do in the United States. Very often fans will blame the game on the refs and complain about terrible calls, but nearly never does it make news in the media. Very few referees are known by their name and a majority of them are known for how good they are because they are always doing the big games (then there are a few ones known for scandals)

I am not really sure what all this referee bashing is supposed to accomplish. I think it would only go towards making people not wanting to become referees, and with less competition means the quality will be lower.

Also, sometimes I hear about referees being accountants or watchmakers or having some other main job other than being a referee. I think that is your problem right there. You have a semi-proffesional trying to keep up with world class athletes. And I don't just mean the pace of the game or being in the right place to spot the action. Referees should be full time so that they can watch footage and train constantly with all the other referees so that they can work on consistancy.

by **RUSHIE#9** » Tue Sep 30, 2008 3:30 pm

JoeTerp wrote:
Sabre wrote:Much better than the Spanish.

In my opinion its the Spanish linesman that blow a lot of calls, which doesn't even make sense really because there isn't really supposed to be an interpreatation factor with offside (at least in comparison to judging the legality of challeneges constantly throughout a game)

I am very surprised at all of this referee bashing because its not really something that we do in the United States. Very often fans will blame the game on the refs and complain about terrible calls, but nearly never does it make news in the media. Very few referees are known by their name and a majority of them are known for how good they are because they are always doing the big games (then there are a few ones known for scandals)

I am not really sure what all this referee bashing is supposed to accomplish. I think it would only go towards making people not wanting to become referees, and with less competition means the quality will be lower.

Also, sometimes I hear about referees being accountants or watchmakers or having some other main job other than being a referee. I think that is your problem right there. You have a semi-proffesional trying to keep up with world class athletes. And I don't just mean the pace of the game or being in the right place to spot the action. Referees should be full time so that they can watch footage and train constantly with all the other referees so that they can work on consistancy.

The majority of Premiership referees are full time pro's. They all became full time a few years back in order to raise the standard of officiating in the top leagues over here.
It's quite ironic that since then they have become no better and I would even go as far as saying they have deteriorated.

by **Number 9** » Tue Sep 30, 2008 7:55 pm

JoeTerp wrote:
Sabre wrote:Much better than the Spanish.

In my opinion its the Spanish linesman that blow a lot of calls, which doesn't even make sense really because there isn't really supposed to be an interpreatation factor with offside (at least in comparison to judging the legality of challeneges constantly throughout a game)

I am very surprised at all of this referee bashing because its not really something that we do in the United States. Very often fans will blame the game on the refs and complain about terrible calls, but nearly never does it make news in the media. Very few referees are known by their name and a majority of them are known for how good they are because they are always doing the big games (then there are a few ones known for scandals)

I am not really sure what all this referee bashing is supposed to accomplish. I think it would only go towards making people not wanting to become referees, and with less competition means the quality will be lower.

Also, sometimes I hear about referees being accountants or watchmakers or having some other main job other than being a referee. I think that is your problem right there. You have a semi-proffesional trying to keep up with world class athletes. And I don't just mean the pace of the game or being in the right place to spot the action. Referees should be full time so that they can watch footage and train constantly with all the other referees so that they can work on consistancy.

So refs can get decisions wrong all the time and cost teams points and gift points to others and nothing should be said or done about it?? Absolutely wrong and its not "Ref Bashing" either Joe,its people that care passionately about their team and the game as a whole and want it fair.
Im not just talking about LFC,it should be fair for every team and consistant.A win is a win but theres no real glory in winning a game due to a bad decision on the pitch.

The thing about it is Joe that it seems to be getting worse and worryingly the ref standard is falling,we are only just into the season and already we have had two goals disallowed.That is unacceptable.If it keeps going at this rate we will have 12 legitimate goals ruled out by season end..how many points could that cost us?This is just LFC of course,there are other teams out there feeling aggrieved too!
It used to be people never really complained as much because there were never as many bad calls,people would say Ok well it happens to us all and evens itself out over the season!
Unfortunately now its beyond a joke,players and supporters IMO find the respect campaign patronising,how are they expected not to question refs when they are calling white black ffs??
Its high time MORE was said about it and something was done because too many matches are ending with the wrong result.
All people want is fairness....the refs are'nt up to it and its time to get the help of technology!
Then the "ref bashing" will stop!!

by **Sabre** » Tue Sep 30, 2008 9:20 pm

Joe, Rushie, newkit mates: make no mistake, in Spain refs are cráp, and corrupt.

The current spokesman of Real Sociedad was a ref and he told me a lot of anecdotes about Spanish refs, for instance he has been told off because he conceded a penalty against Real Madrid. Spanish refs have instructions from their chairman, Sanchez Arminio, clubs talk with Sanchez Arminio when they think they've been treated harshly enough, and Sanchez Arminio then compensates. Spanish refs are never put two divisions below when they've made an awful game. Spanish refs are never wrong, Spanish ref comittee doesn't admit the refs make mistakes, I they dissmiss 95% of official protest. Spanish refs are able to show 3 cards in a row for protesting a wrong decission. Spanish ref's decissions are as infalible as the word of the Pope.

With the tv, they seem a bit more decent because they feel more watched, but I've seen robberies along the years that would be laughable if they weren't that outraging.

Liverpool wouldn't win the Liga if they were teleported to the Spanish league as an experiment. Because we're not good enough? Oh no!! We ARE good enough to win the Liga. But the refs wouldn't allow us to. How? well imagine a game in which all what has to do the oppo team to get a free kick is to have a trickster player and let him drop in a mini foul. The game changes a lot that way. You CAN help a team a lot without cards and without penalties. And if necessary the refs do that. And they do it often.

The lower the division is, the worse the problem is.

No, Spanish Referees are much worse and corrupt than the English.

As for the linesmen Joe, yeh, sometimes they feel like they want to be a MARCA headline and they make a scandal. Typical.

In America you don't talk about the refs, because they're not in a MAFIA. If you had seen half the robberies I've seen in a football pitch, you'd be reporting me about imprisoned refs.

One of the anecdotes of lower division spanish football is that, a local chairman ordered the police to arrest a ref, such was the robbery he was doing. And the police complied

, I must find it, it's a lot of years ago.

by **JoeTerp** » Tue Sep 30, 2008 10:01 pm

Number 9 wrote:
JoeTerp wrote:
Sabre wrote:Much better than the Spanish.

In my opinion its the Spanish linesman that blow a lot of calls, which doesn't even make sense really because there isn't really supposed to be an interpreatation factor with offside (at least in comparison to judging the legality of challeneges constantly throughout a game)

I am very surprised at all of this referee bashing because its not really something that we do in the United States. Very often fans will blame the game on the refs and complain about terrible calls, but nearly never does it make news in the media. Very few referees are known by their name and a majority of them are known for how good they are because they are always doing the big games (then there are a few ones known for scandals)

I am not really sure what all this referee bashing is supposed to accomplish. I think it would only go towards making people not wanting to become referees, and with less competition means the quality will be lower.

Also, sometimes I hear about referees being accountants or watchmakers or having some other main job other than being a referee. I think that is your problem right there. You have a semi-proffesional trying to keep up with world class athletes. And I don't just mean the pace of the game or being in the right place to spot the action. Referees should be full time so that they can watch footage and train constantly with all the other referees so that they can work on consistancy.

So refs can get decisions wrong all the time and cost teams points and gift points to others and nothing should be said or done about it?? Absolutely wrong and its not "Ref Bashing" either Joe,its people that care passionately about their team and the game as a whole and want it fair.
Im not just talking about LFC,it should be fair for every team and consistant.A win is a win but theres no real glory in winning a game due to a bad decision on the pitch.

The thing about it is Joe that it seems to be getting worse and worryingly the ref standard is falling,we are only just into the season and already we have had two goals disallowed.That is unacceptable.If it keeps going at this rate we will have 12 legitimate goals ruled out by season end..how many points could that cost us?This is just LFC of course,there are other teams out there feeling aggrieved too!
It used to be people never really complained as much because there were never as many bad calls,people would say Ok well it happens to us all and evens itself out over the season!
Unfortunately now its beyond a joke,players and supporters IMO find the respect campaign patronising,how are they expected not to question refs when they are calling white black ffs??
Its high time MORE was said about it and something was done because too many matches are ending with the wrong result.
All people want is fairness....the refs are'nt up to it and its time to get the help of technology!
Then the "ref bashing" will stop!!

Is there any evidence to show that refs are purposefully screwing teams over? Is there any evidence that shows that they are out of fitness and cannot keep pace with the game? DO you think they are not trying their best? Is there not a system that moves the good referees up the system and the bad ones down? Where are all these great refs at that you are missing out on?

After every game I watch in any sport in America I can think of 5 or 6 calls that were terrible, and the more atrocious ones are pointed out on television, but what can you do?

the only solution really is to have video replay or professional full time well-paid referees that are fined for poor performance.

You can't just say Rob Styles, stop f.ckuing up you w@nker. and from all accounts the standard does not get any better the further you go down the divisions so its not like bringing up the young rising stars of refereeing to replace all the sh.ite regs is going to do any good

by **Sabre** » Tue Sep 30, 2008 10:06 pm

If there were evidences we'd be fighting another Spanish Civil war

Not in current professional football but I can find evidences of 25 years ago. The existing corruption is the remainder of that.

Refs are relegated and promoted a couple of them every season, but there's not a rating as such, they decide it with the finger, leaving often controversial refs many years.

The only system to control a very awful refereing is the "fridge", that is, a couple of games without matches.

by **Number 9** » Tue Sep 30, 2008 10:24 pm

Joe none of that is relevant mate!
FFS im not saying they are purposely screwing teams over or whether they are trying their best or not.
The bottom line is that they are calling way too many decisions wrong and robbing teams points more than ever!
Its also worth noting that Riley and Stiles are two of the worst offenders on a constant basis.No one is asking refs to be perfect but when we have had 2 perfectly legal goals ruled out after only six games i find that a major worry!
That is 1 goal that we have scored in every 3 games we have played stolen from us due to ref incompetence.
That is wrong and cannot continue to happen!
You say people dont go on about refs in the states..thats OK.What happens over the Atlantic has no bearing on my opinion,the EPL or LFC so its not worth talking about and personally i dont care about it!

But I am worried about the standard of reffing here,its dire,has been for ages and is only looking to be getting worse.Things need to change for the good of the game.
I agree with you when you say we should introduce video technology,reluctantly though because I love football the way it is!
But IMO it does have to happen and I think it will soon,until the day it does i feel everyone has the right to be critical of refs when they are wrong...theres not a lot said when they pull a player up to the FA on charges...Its part of football,just because they are "the law" it does not make them above criticism!!

by **Number 9** » Tue Sep 30, 2008 10:29 pm

Sabre wrote:If there were evidences we'd be fighting another Spanish Civil war Not in current professional football but I can find evidences of 25 years ago. The existing corruption is the remainder of that.

Refs are relegated and promoted a couple of them every season, but there's not a rating as such, they decide it with the finger, leaving often controversial refs many years.

The only system to control a very awful refereing is the "fridge", that is, a couple of games without matches.

Thats true mate,refs get relegated and promoted!
BUT Stiles admitted he was wrong giving Ronaldo a pen against Bolton when he dived.He even said sorry to Bolton!

But the FA have not taken action.In fact he is reffing the Spurs game at the weekend in the EPL!
Bang out of order! :nod

by **tonyeh** » Tue Sep 30, 2008 11:47 pm

Not the first time he's apologised for a fuck up either. He had to apologise to Liverpool too, for awarding Chelsea a cheap penalty.

But the problem here isn't really Styles (although he was chronically wrong on Sat), it's cheating diving feckers like Ronaldo, that make the refs job harder than it should be.

Diving in the box, looking for a cheap free, is not gamesmanship or whatever, it's downright bloody cheating...especially when it's on the end of some quality defending like Samuel's effort and even more galling when it turns a game.

I was a bit tounge in cheek with my last post about cards for the likes of this, but I am coming around to it big time, especially in the light of the overturning Terry's red card by the FA last week.

Perhaps, if there is a clear mistake made due to a player dilberately diving in the box, maybe that penalty goal could be overturned and the goal dis-allowed. That'll certainly go someway to minimising this nonsense. :veryangry

by **Kharhaz** » Wed Oct 01, 2008 12:08 am

I read a topic on LFC.TV about referees, and now reading this its time something is done. It is, like barry says, getting beyond a joke. There was a topic before the season started on here about what we need and I mentioned "consistency from referees" and low and behold im right. I dont think its down to bad decisions or mistakes from refs its down to maintaining the integrity of the league. Before the season started there was talk of playing 39 games with the last games being abroad. This can be achieved by ensuring that english clubs, no, the TOP english clubs make the top 4 and dominate europe as we have done recently. The decisions made by the FA lately (in this I include the referees) are ridiculous. Is it convenient that we had a bad linesman to disallow our goal against stoke? no I dont think so, is it convenient that Terry has his red card over turned while Cahill's remained. Is it coincidence that united got a penalty for nothing while struggling at home?

We can play as well as any other team but for me, from what ive seen so far, this season has already been mapped out. And the refs will play a big part.

by **Number 9** » Wed Oct 01, 2008 12:22 am

tonyeh wrote:Not the first time he's apologised for a fuck up either. He had to apologise to Liverpool too, for awarding Chelsea a cheap penalty.

But the problem here isn't really Styles (although he was chronically wrong on Sat), it's cheating diving feckers like Ronaldo, that make the refs job harder than it should be.

Diving in the box, looking for a cheap free, is not gamesmanship or whatever, it's downright bloody cheating...especially when it's on the end of some quality defending like Samuel's effort and even more galling when it turns a game.

I was a bit tounge in cheek with my last post about cards for the likes of this, but I am coming around to it big time, especially in the light of the overturning Terry's red card by the FA last week.

Perhaps, if there is a clear mistake made due to a player dilberately diving in the box, maybe that penalty goal could be overturned and the goal dis-allowed. That'll certainly go someway to minimising this nonsense.

Goals can never be taken away after games mate and never should be!I know its not fair but goals change the whole concept of a game and how its played by both teams whether they are legit or not!
For example in UTDs game v Bolton.Bolton seemed to be hanging on until that pen.After that went in they attacked a bit more as they were going for the point.UTD scored again because Bolton were committed and had abandoned their initial plan to park the bus!
No one can say how the game would have went if they had not got that pen.Maybe(unlikely) Bolton would have won...maybe it would have stayed 0-0 or maybe UTD would have gone and won 2-0 because they may have played with more urgency later in the game while chasing 3 points??
Its the decisions that change games,and Ronaldo should be punished but he wont be!Sadly we all know in reality if he was a player from Hull or Boro,maybe even us ffs he'd take the book on the head and taste the law after the ref has more or less said it was a dive!
Nothings happening though Ronaldo is uncarded and Stiles is reffing again this weekend!
Disgrace!! :veryangry

by **Owzat** » Mon Nov 24, 2008 2:15 pm

tonyeh wrote:On the back of todays awful match control form Mike Riley in the Liverpool - Everton game (which comes off a bizarre perfomace from the Man Utd - Chelsea match) and the unbelievably poor "penalty" decision awarded to yet another ronaldo dive by Rob Styles in the Man Utd - Bolton game...how do you feel that referees perform generally?

Compared to what?

If we didn't sit watching multiple replays and in slow motion then we'd probably not be sure either. Refs get one replay and are asked to make a judgement. Plenty of fans go to games, reckon the refs made lots of errors when in fact they are further away and probably get more things wrong in their minds than the refs actually get wrong.

Chelsea had two goals not given, both were correct. But we judge referees by number of mistakes not number of correct decisions. Why they can't bring in TV replays for crucial decisions I do not know, be better getting results right than slagging off refs every week and dreading it when we find out who the ref is

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