Liverpool FC Forum

[stmichael]

Please read the following and don't blast me out of here....

A while ago I was lambasted on this site for suggesting that Stevie G should not have been made captain of Liverpool FC. Whether I was right or wrong about my particular choice of captain seemed irrelevant at the time as I had deeply offended those who felt that Steven Gerrard should be made the on-pitch leader.

Now I should start by telling you that one of my favourite ever Liverpool players was (and always will be) Graeme Souness. Souness had everything, skill, decent pace, fitness, an eye for goal, great passing and a ruthless winning streak. The closest I have seen to Souness is Steven Gerrard although I always sense that something is missing from the young Liverpudlian. I still haven't put my finger on it although it could simply be frustration. It is my opinion that Steven Gerrard actually needs some guidance on the pitch. Such guidance can only come from an older, more experienced player but to me Gerrard lacks inspiration. Dont get me wrong I watched him take Liverpool into the Champions League almost single handedly last season but I feel the club now need to develop him.

The issue of captaincy seems to me to be a problem as I dont think Gerrard is a natural leader. Now some of you will immediately react and say "he is the only one that really gets stuck in" but my response would be that Steven Gerrard would get stuck in whether he was the captain or the tea lady because that is his way. Unfortunately (as our game against Bolton proved) a leader needs to think, communicate and motivate rather than do all the work of his sub-ordinates. Look at other jobs and you'll spot a good leader because he or she will delegate certain tasks to others whilst thinking strategically. He or she will also be an excellent communicator.

I have already identified the person I feel should be Liverpool's captain based on our current squad and would not be at all suprised if Benitez made a change as he appears fearless in the decision-making department. I think Gerrard either needs the support and inspiration of an older player or he needs to be relieved of the captaincy so that he can focus on his game. Unfortunately the latter would be pounced upon by the media who would suggest he was on his way out or something like that.

At the end of the day the most important issue is the team and the way it is driven on the pitch. At the moment there is a distinct lack of inspiration which could be a result of Rafa's massive changes (including the changes he is making to SG's game) or it could be a result of too much pressure on Stevie G. It may also relate to recent stories in the Sunday Mirror. If I was the manager I would sit down with him and find out how to get the best out of him on the pitch before it's too late.

So who then?  it's not like we have candidates jumping out at us is it?

Well I personally believe that Xabi Alonso could be the type of player we need as Captain. He seems self assured, confident and has a fire about him, signifed by his arguing with the ref a couple of times and displacing SG in the centre with a certain nerveless aplomb. Rafa was giving instructions to Alonso too - not Gerrard so perhaps it's a sign of things to come.

Alternatively, perhaps it's all mind games designed to rile Gerrard up and see how he responds. Will he rise to the challenge and the threat Alonso poses to his favoured position? Will he start to show the true drive and inspiration required of a Captain? or will he sulk and give up?

It's great to have a homegrown lad as Captain. It's something romantic that fans can relate to. SG is the embodiment of many a fan's dream: Homegrown lad captaining their hometown club. There's no room for such sentiment though. All that matters is what is best for the team and makes team perform in the most effective manner. If that means egos are trampled on and certain players have to take a back seat or change their role in the team then so be it.

In many people's view, the mere fact that Steven Gerrard considered leaving LFC during the summer despite signing a contract 6 months earlier, despite the honour of being LFC Captain and despite repeated protestations of "love" for the club means he should be stripped of the Captaincy anyway. Harsh maybe - however, the club showed loyalty and faith in SG by giving him the Captaincy. Did he do the same during the summer? Not at all.

at the end of the day this is just an opinion. please let us know if you agree or not.

[woof woof !]

Run St Mick !!!! Run for your life !!!!!  

[anfieldadorer]

please forgive him fellas...





sorry, stmike, seriously. I personally think SG is a type of person who can enjoy the role and so far things looks just fine. Some players probably motivated to play better given the role. Only a personal opinion, i'm not a psychologist

ooops, now i gotta run for my life 

[XSD]

It would be impossible to take the armband away from him now. It would be like a kick in the teeth after just giving him the job, I don't think Rafa will risk that.

[Starbridge42]

Yes indeed.   Head for the hills St Mike!  Your going to be eaten alive when the others get here.

[woof woof !]

I don't agree that Gerrard should be stripped of the captaincy. Although I do agree that he tries to do too much . Rafa should impress on him the fact that "leading by example" i:e trying to do everything yourself,  whilst inspiring can in the longer term be detrimental to Stevie's individual and therefore the teams performance.
On the field ,there is nothing to stop what you term as older more experienced players chipping in with words of advice and encouragement, particularly Sammi who was our previous captain.
Steven Gerrard is much more than our best player and captain ,in this age were 
our team is composed of players from all over the world Stevie is a reminder of the roots from which our beloved club grew.

ps as for Rafa giving Alonso instructions , could it have anything to do with the fact they both speak Spanish and it would be easier to communicate directly ?
I remember Houllier giving orders directly to Biscan but nobody suggested  he could be our next captain . 

[stmichael]

I don't agree that Gerrard should be stripped of the captaincy. Although I do agree that he tries to do too much . Rafa should impress on him the fact that "leading by example" i:e trying to do everything yourself whilst inspiring can in the longer term be detrimental to Stevie's individual and therefore the teams performance.

that's basically the point i was making woof woof. i personally don't want to see him stripped of the captaincy. i was just offering another side to an argument that is that stevie g should concentrate on improving his own game, rather than having to boot everyone else's #rses into gear aswell.

[Starbridge42]

yeah but thats because Biscan wouldn't captain a 2nd division team, and GH made Hyypia and Gerrard the captains. (not at the same time dumb a**!)

[mynameisred]

I think you raise some interesting points there stmike not how much I agree but I would congratualte you on your insight especially in comaprison of recent threads. However you contradict yourself somewhat when you state that Stevie G himself could use some guidence but what could your choice of Alonso offer to him. Stevie G is a Beckham type captain and leads by example however he needs to learn coz he cannot lead the team this way all the time nobody can perform at the level he is at 52 weeks a year, not even Souness.
Actually and no offence I think you may have missed the most important point on leadership by concentrating on Stevie G. Where were our other leaders against Bolton we often looked like we had none to turn to for ideas or inspiration, granted Stevie was quiet but if you look at Arsenal they have 5 or 6 'leaders in their team. Vieria may be captain but look at the input of Henry, Campbell, Pires and their keeper may be pants but at least he looks like he is is in control (barring crosses anyway).

[azriahmad]

A successful captain needs to be the authoritative figure everyone looks up to next to the manager. He needs to be a motivator as well as being a decent player, and surely must command the respect from his team mates. Leadership quality does not necessarily come with a great deal of talent.

Looking back, our best captain was Graeme Souness for me. There was plenty of example. When we played the scum in the '83 Milk Cup final, we went behind in the 15th minute. Souness was going around rallying the troops and we turned around to win 2-1. Emlyn Hughes was another good captain. So then is Roy Keane and Tony Adams. I am still not convinced that becks is the lind of captain who can rally his men. Roy Keane would kick @ss and rally his troops much better than Becks can.

Having said that, Gerrard is still very young and can surely improve his game further, arguably this should happen first and when he is say 26, he should be given the arm band. Last season he clearly got a great lift from being made the captain but today I see him trying to do too much as the captain. Taking away the arm band from him now is near impossible as it might de-motivate him.

Now is not the time yet to remove the captaincy, unless Liverpool keep suffering catastrophic results and Gerrard suffers a great dip in form due to the extra pressure of being captain. This was what happened to Thommo in the 80s and Souness took over the captaincy and never looked back.

[woof woof !]

yeah but thats because Biscan wouldn't captain a 2nd division team, and GH made Hyypia and Gerrard the captains. (not at the same time dumb a**!)

Damn how come none of us knew that ? 

[LFC #1]

Xabi Alonso may be a future candidate whwn he knows his team mates better, and his english improves.
Carra may be able to to the job as he is a well respected member of the tam, and is our longest serving player in the current sqaud.

Tbh, I have never thought about the issue, whwn Gerrard replaced Hyppia as captain I thought it was a good decision, and have always thought Gerrard was the man for the job, and continue to think this, although you do raise some interesting ideas st.mick (being a bit controversial lately, with the Barso thread as well, what's going on? )

[stmichael]

you do raise some interesting ideas st.mick (being a bit controversial lately, with the Barso thread as well, what's going on? )

it's not aimed to be controversial, it's just aimed to form interesting debate. some of the threads around here recently have been repetitive and boring to say the least.

i'm just waiting for stu the red to read this thread and say "st michael, are you from liverpool? do you go to any games?"

[soworse]

very touchy issue indeed..

espcially since almost everyone takes it for granted that the captaincy is rightfully stevie G's.

But StMike brought up some very relevant issues pertinent to the systemic functioning of LFC as a team on the pitch, and for the better of the team we should analyse the captain's armband even if it means putting our favourite player under the spotlight.

I prefer to look at it this way.

First let's consider why he became captain in the first place.

If memory serves me right, everything happened at the start of the 2003/2004 season when Hyypia hit a bad patch of form. GH decided to ring the changes and on 14th Oct 2003 appointed SG captain of LFC, with Sami and Owen as VCs. The reasons given by GH were 2-fold. Firstly, he felt that SG has reached the level of maturity to express his leadership qualities on the pitch. Secondly, this move served to ease the burden on Sami, to allow him to recapture his form. Fine and dandy, and this may very well be the case, but I would just like to say that when I saw the news (http://www.liverpoolfc.tv/news/archived ... -1315.html), the cynic in me leapt out.

To my raw senses, to make your top 3 assets your Captain and VCs was a blantant/ desperate move to convince them to pledge their futures to LFC. It left a sour taste in my mouth, and despite Sami's own admission that he's OK with the decision, i still felt for the big fella. After all, he captained us to SIX trophies. I've always felt that Sami was a fine leader and for one did not see the sense in passing the baton on to SG when he was only 23. To me, the change in leadership seemed unnecessary.

Anyhow, since it has been done, what I felt was moot, and what was left was to appraise SG as our captain. Just because I think it was unnecessary doesn't mean that SG will not be a good leader.

So how has SG been as the captain of LFC?

for a detailed examination, I refer you to the originating post this thread

The only thing I would like to add to StMIke's analysis is this. A great leader makes the people playing around him better, even if he himself is ****** that day. A captain may be having an off day but he'll always find a way to get the best out of his team-mates. My own opinion of SG is this. As a player, he is VITAL to the team. As captain, SG leads by example and his passion for the club is clear for all to see. But honestly, has he really inspired his team mates to play out of their skin? When SG is having an off day, you can bet 9 times out of 10 we go down. That should not be the case.

Having stirred the ******, now what?
Keep him? Or appoint someone else as captain? If so, who?

Frankly, the moment SG was appointed as the captain, I for one felt that there was no way back. It's easy to say that for the good of the team he should graciously step down and allow someone else to step up to the plate. But in reality, meritocracy will only serve to ingite an outcry from sections of the fans who see SG as their favourite son. SG's morale will definitely be affected to some extent and so will the team's performance. Not to mention that, if a foreigner is chosen, especially someone recently purchased, the whole 'losing our English backbone' argument will be forwarded again. More practically, will SG stay in LFC if we subject him to the indigity of losing his captaincy?

Far-fetched? I can see all this happenning if we switch captains so abruptly. It would not make sense to do this, either from a team-morale perspective nor from a business perspective.

Bottomline? SG is a world-class player but at most an adequate captain. But, time is on his side. And so are the majority of the LFC fan community!

random thought: how about jamie carragher? 

And a disclaimer : No offense to anyone with my views  It's really just how I feel. I'm terribly sorry if I touched on any raw nerves.

[stmichael]

very touchy issue indeed..

espcially since almost everyone takes it for granted that the captaincy is rightfully stevie G's.

But StMike brought up some very relevant issues pertinent to the systemic functioning of LFC as a team on the pitch, and for the better of the team we should analyse the captain's armband even if it means putting our favourite player under the spotlight.

I prefer to look at it this way.

First let's consider why he became captain in the first place.

If memory serves me right, everything happened at the start of the 2003/2004 season when Hyypia hit a bad patch of form. GH decided to ring the changes and on 14th Oct 2003 appointed SG captain of LFC, with Sami and Owen as VCs. The reasons given by GH were 2-fold. Firstly, he felt that SG has reached the level of maturity to express his leadership qualities on the pitch. Secondly, this move served to ease the burden on Sami, to allow him to recapture his form. Fine and dandy, and this may very well be the case, but I would just like to say that when I saw the news (http://www.liverpoolfc.tv/news/archived ... -1315.html), the cynic in me leapt out.

To my raw senses, to make your top 3 assets your Captain and VCs was a blantant/ desperate move to convince them to pledge their futures to LFC. It left a sour taste in my mouth, and despite Sami's own admission that he's OK with the decision, i still felt for the big fella. After all, he captained us to SIX trophies. I've always felt that Sami was a fine leader and for one did not see the sense in passing the baton on to SG when he was only 23. To me, the change in leadership seemed unnecessary.

Anyhow, since it has been done, what I felt was moot, and what was left was to appraise SG as our captain. Just because I think it was unnecessary doesn't mean that SG will not be a good leader.

So how has SG been as the captain of LFC?

for a detailed examination, I refer you to the originating post this thread

The only thing I would like to add to StMIke's analysis is this. A great leader makes the people playing around him better, even if he himself is ****** that day. A captain may be having an off day but he'll always find a way to get the best out of his team-mates. My own opinion of SG is this. As a player, he is VITAL to the team. As captain, SG leads by example and his passion for the club is clear for all to see. But honestly, has he really inspired his team mates to play out of their skin? When SG is having an off day, you can bet 9 times out of 10 we go down. That should not be the case.

Having stirred the ******, now what?
Keep him? Or appoint someone else as captain? If so, who?

Frankly, the moment SG was appointed as the captain, I for one felt that there was no way back. It's easy to say that for the good of the team he should graciously step down and allow someone else to step up to the plate. But in reality, meritocracy will only serve to ingite an outcry from sections of the fans who see SG as their favourite son. SG's morale will definitely be affected to some extent and so will the team's performance. Not to mention that, if a foreigner is chosen, especially someone recently purchased, the whole 'losing our English backbone' argument will be forwarded again. More practically, will SG stay in LFC if we subject him to the indigity of losing his captaincy?

Far-fetched? I can see all this happenning if we switch captains so abruptly. It would not make sense to do this, either from a team-morale perspective nor from a business perspective.

Bottomline? SG is a world-class player but at most an adequate captain. But, time is on his side. And so are the majority of the LFC fan community!

random thought: how about jamie carragher? 

And a disclaimer : No offense to anyone with my views  It's really just how I feel. I'm terribly sorry if I touched on any raw nerves.

brilliant post mate. at least somebody can see where i was coming from.