Liverpool FC Forum

mart » Sun Mar 25, 2012 8:55 am wrote:

Benny The Noon » Sun Mar 25, 2012 7:11 am wrote:Starts Devaney - Games Carroll has started


LFC results in last 7 Carroll's starts: WWDWDWW

Last 7 without: DDLLLLL

League games this season:

With Gerrard: W: 4 D: 5 L: 6
Without Gerrard: W: 7 D: 4 L: 4

We should drop gerrard?

No because in the last 14 games, since he returned to full fitness, we've won games with him in the side, and we've lost games without him in the side.

Last 14 games, we've lost NONE of the games where Carroll has started and we've NOT WON ANY of the games where Carroll hasn't started.

If you want to get rid of anyone then look no further than Henderson

£35m for a lumbering oaf - absolute joke. To be fair to him, his looking a lot trimmer in recent weeks but technique, touch isn't there. We need better than him - would get rid.

Doeboy » Sun Mar 25, 2012 10:02 am wrote:£35m for a lumbering oaf - absolute joke. To be fair to him, his looking a lot trimmer in recent weeks but technique, touch isn't there. We need better than him - would get rid.

You have'ne watched him recently then? He's gotten a lot better, and could still be an asset. You would think a game like the Wigan one would have been perfect for him to start

Doeboy » Sun Mar 25, 2012 10:02 am wrote:£35m for a lumbering oaf - absolute joke. To be fair to him, his looking a lot trimmer in recent weeks but technique, touch isn't there. We need better than him - would get rid.

He should be on from the start.
KK has to have faith and belief in him to show people that he is a vital part of he team.
We win more when he starts
FACT!

dawson99 » Sun Mar 25, 2012 10:03 am wrote:

Doeboy » Sun Mar 25, 2012 10:02 am wrote:£35m for a lumbering oaf - absolute joke. To be fair to him, his looking a lot trimmer in recent weeks but technique, touch isn't there. We need better than him - would get rid.

You have'ne watched him recently then? He's gotten a lot better, and could still be an asset. You would think a game like the Wigan one would have been perfect for him to start

I just think his limited as a modern day footballer. His movement, touch is generally poor. In the modern game you need to be more than just a big lump playing up front. For example Llorente at Bilbao is another big guy but touch and control as well as movement compared to Carroll is on another level.  Granted, his been out of shape for most of his time here and fair play to him for sorting it out but that begs the question shouldn't he have realised that he needed to sort it out the day he signed for us? His playing for a huge club and for him to be so out of shape was a disgrace but his sorted it out and I would give him a run until the end of the season but deep inside I know he needs to be jogged on

Benny The Noon » Sun Mar 25, 2012 7:11 am wrote:Starts Devaney - Games Carroll has started


LFC results in last 7 Carroll's starts: WWDWDWW

Last 7 without: DDLLLLL

And in the last 11 Premiership games which I prefer to use as a more accurate barometer Carroll has been heavily involved in nearly all of those games and we won 2 of them. The lad was bought to score goals.That was the fundamental reason for spending £35m unless I have got something very wrong.Scoring the odd goal against Brighton and Wolves simply isn't good enough.

devaney » Sun Mar 25, 2012 10:20 am wrote:

Benny The Noon » Sun Mar 25, 2012 7:11 am wrote:Starts Devaney - Games Carroll has started


LFC results in last 7 Carroll's starts: WWDWDWW

Last 7 without: DDLLLLL

And in the last 11 Premiership games which I prefer to use as a more accurate barometer Carroll has been heavily involved in nearly all of those games and we won 2 of them. The lad was bought to score goals.That was the fundamental reason for spending £35m unless I have got something very wrong.Scoring the odd goal against Brighton and Wolves simply isn't good enough.

No matter how much was spent, you want a striker to score goals.
While Carroll has been lacking in that department we cant ignore that he has been used badly and has not had great service. This season will be looked back on as wasted opportunities by some and total fu'ck up by others. I believe if Carroll had been used constantly from the begining, and was given better service, we would have had a better team, more wins and more points and this discussion, and others like it, wouldnt have taken place

Doeboy » Sun Mar 25, 2012 10:02 am wrote:£35m for a lumbering oaf - absolute joke. To be fair to him, his looking a lot trimmer in recent weeks but technique, touch isn't there. We need better than him - would get rid.

You clearly never saw his goal against Everton earlier in the season. He had the touch and technique on that occasion.

The lad isn't going to fulfil his potential if he keeps getting dropped and then playing again. He's an asset to the likes of Suarez and Gerrard as when he's on the pitch teams are constantly marking him allowing them two more space. He really needs a run of games.

Tim LFC » Sun Mar 25, 2012 11:31 am wrote:The lad isn't going to fulfil his potential if he keeps getting dropped and then playing again. He's an asset to the likes of Suarez and Gerrard as when he's on the pitch teams are constantly marking him allowing them two more space. He really needs a run of games.

great post

dawson99 » Sun Mar 25, 2012 11:35 am wrote:

Tim LFC » Sun Mar 25, 2012 11:31 am wrote:The lad isn't going to fulfil his potential if he keeps getting dropped and then playing again. He's an asset to the likes of Suarez and Gerrard as when he's on the pitch teams are constantly marking him allowing them two more space. He really needs a run of games.

great post

Carroll has been heavily involved in nearly all of our last 11 Premiership games and we have won 2 and one of those was against an apalling Wolves. Carroll has been used and apart from the odd moment he has been nothing special. I agree that he has improved but he has improved from a very a very low base level. I have thought from the first game that he played in a Liverpool shirt that he was substantially out of his depth and he has done very little to change my opinion.Carroll is not the only problem but let's not ignore the fact that he is a major part of the problem. Strikers are paid to score goals and anybody that is happy with Carroll's overall contribution is kidding themselves. I would be delighted if the lad came good and proved to be a serious asset to LFC.

Redman in wales » Sun Mar 25, 2012 8:44 am wrote:It's also not just about goals and assists. It's also about what he does for others.

Even yesterday's goal, Carrol didn't touch the ball, but he drew a defender with him, keeping him out of the way of Suarez, or the balls path. Had carroll not distracted the defender, he could have blocked suarez's shot or cleared it off the line.

Ok - that may not be the best example... but there are plenty of other occasions over the last few games where Carroll may not have scored or assisted, but he occupies defenders that the extra man in midfield may not do and he creates space for others.

We are more effective and more successful with him starting, then him not. To re-iterate Benny's stats:

LFC results in last 7 Carroll's starts: WWDWDWW

Last 7 without: DDLLLLL

It's not just co-incidence - it's what he does for the team.

Another intersting line of thought, which backs up this arguement about what he does for others.

In 2012, Luis Suarez has only scored or made an assist when Carroll has been on the field at the same time.

Luis Suarez last 4 goals and last 4 assists have all come when Carroll's on the pitch. Carroll may not score, but he creates the space for others.

Regardless of his scoring record, he certainly adds something when he plays.



And yes for the doubters, it is obviously not just Carroll alone causing the good results when he’s on the field / bad when he’s off. But also the system we employ.

As always it’s never just one thing that’s wrong, but it’s a multitude of things, but some of them can be linked

When we play Carroll, we often revert to a 4-4-2, without him, we seem to play 4-3-3. The better results tend to come when we’re playing 4-4-2.

Thommo's perm » Sun Mar 25, 2012 9:21 am wrote:If you want to get rid of anyone then look no further than Henderson

In Henderson's defence he's been played on the right wing all season.

Boxscarf » Tue Mar 27, 2012 10:17 am wrote:

Thommo's perm » Sun Mar 25, 2012 9:21 am wrote:If you want to get rid of anyone then look no further than Henderson

In Henderson's defence he's been played on the right wing all season.

and why is that, genuinely anybody who still thinks kenny is a great manager can they please try to explain his thinking on this one. Henderson is a central midfielder so why play the likes of Adam and spearing in midfield rather than him? I could understand it if Henderson was versatile enough to play as a winger but he clearly isn't, in my opinion it is bad management.