Posted:
Wed Jun 10, 2009 11:17 am
by stmichael
very good in terms of centre backs and central midfielders. however his record of signing wide players, fullbacks and strikers have left a lot to be desired.
the difference is, we can't afford to make expensive mistakes like chelsea and united can. i mean if united got rid of berbatov this summer they'd just go out and spend £25m on another striker and nothing would be said.
i mean rafa has brought in loads of fullbacks over his five years here and a lot haven't made it. however the transfer outlay on these players has been pretty low. compare this with chelsea who have already spunked £40m on right backs in bosingwa, ferreira, boulahrouz, ben haim ect and are now looking at spending another £15m on glen johnson who they sold for £6m a few years back.
Posted:
Wed Jun 10, 2009 1:23 pm
by HacksawJimDuggin
He can only be so good given how financially gagged and bound he is at the moment!!!
Posted:
Wed Jun 10, 2009 2:12 pm
by Owzat
Ok Lando, let's compare the "best XIs" from when when Rafa took over and now.
GK Dudek vs REINA : Reina comfortably (0.0-1.0)
RB Finnan vs Arbeloa : nothing much in it (0.5-1.5)
LB Riise vs AURELIO : just about in favour of Aurelio (1.0-2.5)
CB CARRAGHER vs Skrtel : Carra winning it (2.0-2.5)
CB HYYPIA vs Agger : close, Sami wins it just (2.5-3.0)
RM Smicer vs KUYT : convert Kuyt wins easily (2.5-4.0)
LM Kewell vs RIERA : Riera not much to beat (2.5-5.0)
CM Hamann vs ALONSO : Xabi (3.0-6.0)
CM GERRARD vs Benayoun : no brainer, Gerrard has improved under Rafa though (4.0-6.0)
CF Owen vs Torres : would be close even if I gave it to Torres (4.5-6.5)
CF BAROS vs Babel : not ideal, but Baros (5.0-7.0)
It's difficult to compare a 4-4-2 with 4-3-3/4-5-1 so Mascherano had to be left out. It isn't meant to be a definitive comparison, but does highlight the main areas of improvement - Reina, Riera and Kuyt improving massively on Dudek, Kewell and Smicer (or on any GK, LM, or RM for years) Most of the other positions were pretty good when Rafa took over, you can't tell me Finnan, Riise, Carragher, Hyypia, Hamann, Gerrard and Owen made for a much weaker XI? That's seven, allowing for the switch to using a DM rather than a second CF. The last time we had two quality strikers on the books was Owen and Fowler before Fowler went to Leeds.
So while every position may have been improved, it wasn't like we started off with a side good enough to play in the conference and Rafa waved his magic wand to produce the team we see today. That squad Rafa won the Champions League with was mostly inherited, and Houllier managed 2nd once same as Rafa has in about the same period so the squad can't have been all that bad. And up until they were sold/left, Hyypia, Finnan, Riise and Hamann of those seven cited played important roles. Owen would have had he not been so quick out the door. Maybe Hamann has been replaced with arguably a superior model, but are Hyypia, Finnan and Riise that much worse than our current CB and FB options?
The problem for me is how much Rafa spends in trying to improve a position. Riera and Babel cost a combined £19.5m and neither is a certain starter at LM. He hasn't spend much on RB and it shows, he spent a lot on Dossena and that is still some way from a final solution. And how much has he spent "improving" strikers?
Bellamy £6m
Crouch £7m
Keane £20.3m
N'Gog £1.5m
Morientes £6.3m
Kuyt £10m (now a RM!)
Torres £21m
That's near £75m on strikers from those alone, don't think I've missed any with fees except you might label Babel and Luis Garcia as strikers which would add another £18m. We've a striker who is arguably/probably better than Owen was to show for all those signings, yes we recouped money, but in five years that hardly reflects someone who is great at signing players - got it right at the umpteenth attempt
Posted:
Wed Jun 10, 2009 2:26 pm
by GYBS
One point i will disagree with is the comparison between Owen and Torres - Nowhere near close - Torres is twice the striker Owen ever has been .
Posted:
Wed Jun 10, 2009 9:37 pm
by GYBS
My god imagine you bringing rotation into it - how boring .1. When was bellamy and pennant ever excellent ? Pennant played well during a three month period , bellamy maybe had the odd decent game 2. Crouch - is he better than Torres ? Did he link better with Torres than Gerrard ? Im sure the answer is no to both those questions - solution = back up , did he want that = no , was he offered a new contract = yes , did he turn it down = yes , did he want to leave = yes so off goes crouch . 3. Keane - havent mentioned him but will state my point again about him = not good enough , he leaves gerrard goes back to playing behind Torres = jackpot .
Oh little bit of info for you - I know someone who works at villa(and no not a tea lady) and he has confirmed it to me that City were the only team who made any approach for barry . No 11th hour bid from anyone .