Posted:
Wed Mar 05, 2008 3:14 am
by god_bless_john_houlding
redtrader74 wrote:Bollox zonal?? well sorry but myou have just shown a lack of understanding, because that bollox works.
Zonal marking may work in the european game, stats may suggest it works in england but the truth is, it doesn't. Taking Bolton as the prime example, our last game against Bolton the only time they looked like scoring was through a set piece. They hit the bar, forced cahos in the box and eventually scored through set pieces. The derby earlier this season, all cahos in our box came from set peices (corners, free kicks and long throws.)
Zonal marking doesn't work, which is why when you look most goals we conceed come from set pieces and if they don't score they will certainly cause cahos in our box. Also zonal marking is such a defensive minded way, you see this when we drag EVERYONE back to defend a corner. So if by some flucky chance we defend the corner properly, there's no one in an advanced position to counter attack.
Posted:
Wed Mar 05, 2008 3:46 am
by god_bless_john_houlding
LFC2007 wrote:god_bless_john_houlding wrote:redtrader74 wrote:Bollox zonal?? well sorry but myou have just shown a lack of understanding, because that bollox works.
Zonal marking may work in the european game, stats may suggest it works in england but the truth is, it doesn't. Taking Bolton as the prime example, our last game against Bolton the only time they looked like scoring was through a set piece. They hit the bar, forced cahos in the box and eventually scored through set pieces. The derby earlier this season, all cahos in our box came from set peices (corners, free kicks and long throws.)
Zonal marking doesn't work, which is why when you look most goals we conceed come from set pieces and if they don't score they will certainly cause cahos in our box. Also zonal marking is such a defensive minded way, you see this when we drag EVERYONE back to defend a corner. So if by some flucky chance we defend the corner properly, there's no one in an advanced position to counter attack.
Our defensive record this season hasn't been as good as in our previous two seasons, and this season we've been particularly poor at set pieces, defensively and attacking wise. The system itself has not been at fault, by virtue of the fact that our defensive record has been so good in our previous two seasons in which the system has been implemented. The application of the system by the players has been part of the reason we've conceded more goals (65% of goals conceded I think) from set pieces than usual. We haven't been as focussed, as alert, as forthright in attacking the ball and zones occupied, and also to a lesser extent - the fact that Crouch hasn't played as often this season. When he plays, although not always, he often cleared the ball himself, or helped put-off the opposition from headering the ball. The system is not fundamentally flawed if implemented correctly by the players.
I understand what you're saying but if you look at those earlier seasons, I assume (can't be certain) that the majority of ours conceeded goals come from set pieces. Again if not teams actually scoring, we very rarely seem to win the first header, it's either the second ball defended well or a good save by Reina. I'm not a fan of zonal marking and I doubt it'll change my mind.
Posted:
Wed Mar 05, 2008 5:58 pm
by londonboy77
This will be my first ever post and do you know what, I am not even a Liverpool fan.
As a kid growing up in the 80's the first thing I knew about football was Liverpool but as I grew older and managed to find out a little more about the game I formed my own allegiances. That said, I still find myself following with great interest the club who it all started with for me.
What amazes me is the level of knowledge and the ability to articulate the point of all the posters so I will try to make my point but you may need to bear with me! Nothing I say will be unique or, more likely, even interesting but sometimes the view of an outsider looking in can be enlightening...a little like when your mate tells you your wife is getting fat.
I think it is patently obvious that both the team and squad are not strong enough to win the Premiership however what is worrying is the level of underperformance. There is no way that a squad as good as it is should be struggling to secure fourth spot...a good season for Liverpool at the moment would be a point behind Chelsea...outside chance for the title and given it a good shot, creating a platform to move up into what I fear is fast becoming "The Big Three".
The original post asked how long and how much...
How much? As much as it takes...because you are starting from behind the other three, who will probably spend £150m between them in the summer, you may need more. While Rafa has spent a lot in the past few years, he hasn't spent more than Man U and Chelsea...I think he's actually spent less and certainly has recouped money making his nett spending lower than the others. When he took over the other three had either years of stability and building beneath them or a huge pot of money...or both. I fear in answer to how much, the answer is much, much more.
How Long? Only Champions League success has helped to paper over the cracks and at the risk of contradicting myself I think Liverpool have underperformed. It doesn't look like he has got the best out of his players at times and certainly the team is hugely over-rotated. Stability in the club needs to come from the top but I feel that Rafa has had enough time and it is time to start a new era in the long and illustrious history of Liverpool Football Club.
The new manager will still have to deal with not having the finances or years of building that the other three have had but a manager needs to be brought in who can get the team to over-achieve rather than under-achieve. Need to catch the coat tails of the other three rather than constantly being 20 points behind.
Good Luck, I fear you may need it.
Posted:
Wed Mar 05, 2008 6:22 pm
by dawson99
When abamovich first took over cheatski everyone was moaning and saying how bad it was that cheatski bought the league. Now a few years later we are saying we should do exactly the same thing. Our imaginary perfect teams state how we need to spend £100 million and we are all saying how bad the directors are by not throwing money to win the league.
I say id rather not win the league than win it by just buying everyone for stupid money.
We want the league. rafa wants the league and he needs help to do it. What i dont want is to get in the cheatski mindset of buying it. we have the players, maybe we need one or two... but we dont need to break the bank. Rafa also needs a number 2 far mroe than we need a winger or striker.... thats what i think anyway