Liverpool FC Forum

JoeTerp wrote:not sure if you know this sundance but Barca might look a lot different next year. new coach and most likely a lot of different players. I don't think its quite fair yet to say what their playing style will be. Look at the two different Real Madrid teams that one the league in the last two seasons, they had a different style of play

stmichael wrote:

JoeTerp wrote:2nd XI:
                              Cavalieri
  Degen/Carra   Skrtel                Hyypia     Insua/Arbeloa
                              Plessis
                Lucas                      Alonso
   Kuyt                                                Silva
                     Keane/Babel/Nemeth

Don't know how much those three would cost and I don't know what we have to spend, but I would be willing to sell Carson, Itandje, Finnan, Pennant, Aurelio, Voronin, and Yossi, in addition to the already sold Riise, Guthrie, Crouch, Kewell, Le Tallec which is worth about 17M. But only as long as I knew the money was going directly into bringing in a player that is actually worth 18M.

People might say you cannot sell all those players we would lack depth. Well that full 2nd string
of players doesn't look to bad to me, and if we get more than one injury to a position at the same time (would be terrible luck) we aren't going to challenge for the title anyway.  I don't see Voronin's experience being of any use to the team when there are so many players ahead of him. He isn't even a real striker FFS. I actually like Pennant but he certainly is not needed, and I think he could be worth more to the club in the form of cash (if in fact we are as short on cash as rafa is having everyone believe). Aurelio might seem like a controversial sell but if Dossena is worth his price tag, he should be a clear step better (would want to see him in action before dealing)  And if we keep Arbeloa, who is just as capable a back up as Aurelio and having Insua around as well, Aurelio (who is the best LB at the club still on the books that has played in a red shirt) suddenly has much lower value to our team than he could on the market.  Selling Yossi could be considered as another radical idea because he has not played poorly for us, but I don't see how exactly he is going to fit into our team. I think he really wants to play as a second striker but I think it would be hard for him to unseat Gerrard. And if it was between having both Riera and Yossi in the squad or just David Silva, I am taking Silva every time.

inglis5 wrote:Reina

             Degen    Carragher  Agger    Dossena

                       Mascherano    Barry

                  Gerrard      Keane    Babel

                                 Torres
                     
Now I've got several problems with this, although it looks pretty good, I don't think that Keane is a creative second striker or somebody you would want to play in the hole. I also think that by putting Gerrard there with nobody outside him you are restricting him. I also would like to see Babel play more on the right and go outside rather than cutting in each time. Also, Mascherano plays best just in front of the back 4, on his own.

Bad Bob wrote:An interesting set of line-ups, mate, but I disagree with a few of your points.  First, I think Keane does play "in the hole" a fair bit and quite effectively for Spurs, with Berbatov the classic target man.  I think he'll suit that role behind Torres, operating "between the lines" across a wide swath of the pitch while also getting into the box on a consistent basis for support. 

As for Babel on the right, I'd like to see what happens with him there.  My worry, though, is that he's not a winger by nature and thus, while he might skin a fair few fullbacks along the touchline, he won't get up to much with his crosses and cutbacks.  I have a suspicion that Rafa plays him on the left to encourage him to cut infield onto his right foot and run at defenders/have a lash from distance.  He won't do much of that if he starts wide right.

On to Masch and I disagree that Masch likes to "sit" in front of the back 4 on his own Makalele style.  If you watched him last season, he liked to burst forward a lot: either to bring the ball out of our half or to hunt for the ball when our opponents had possession in midfield.  Indeed, I think that was part of the appeal of the 4-2-3-1 for Rafa: Masch could cover a large part of the pitch while Alonso (or Lucas) stayed home.  If they ventured forward, Masch would sit back.  But, my point is that I don't think Masch is the conventional shield the back 4 type and we might hinder his game a lot if we ask him to sit back there by himself while Gerrard occupies himself in the opponents' final 3rd.

On a last note, I think it is far from certain that we will be getting Barry this summer so teamsheets that have Barry inked in rather firmly (and there are a quite a few I've seen on the boards these days) seem a lot less certain than they did a couple of weeks ago.  We may again be looking at Alonso and Masch playing in behind a "3" who in turn play in behind Torres.  Where Keane fits in that 3 and what that means for Gerrard, Babel and Kuyt is an interesting question.  I guess I'm saying that I'll be a little surprised to see us go to a straight 4-4-2, even if we sign Keane given our lack of natural wide players and Rafa's comments that the fullbacks will provide width this campaign.

Yep, can't really argue with anything you say there. Still not sure that if we ar going to spend (the reported) £20 million on a second striker then there isn't a better player out there...

With regards to having two holding players, I think the true benefit of this system would come about with at least one top quality winger. Last season there was so much frustration that we'd dominate the central midfield area but there were only limited options out wide. I love Kuyt and I think he does a tremendous job for us defensively (which is especially important in the big games) but against lesser sides you perhaps need somebody with more invention and trickery with the ability to beat the man and put a quality ball. Then again, if you're employing overlapping full backs then perhaps it isn't necessary to have traditional wingers?

As for Barry coming, you're right, it may not happen. Personally I would still prefer to see Alonso stay at the club. The only benefit I can see of Barry, in comparison, to Alonso, is his versatility. He can play in 3 or 4 positions while Alonso can arguably play in 1 or 2.

Babel's certainly a conundrum. I think that long-term he'll play him in a more central and advanced position. Where Babel would probably excel is in a 3 man (interchanging forward line) similar to what Man U play. This year will be very important for him, I've always presumed that Rafa has been playing him out wide because of the lack of quality wingers at the club and that would be addressed with their arrival in the summer. As it looks like this won't happen perhaps he feels we don't need them?

So, if I take all of what you say on board then how does this look?

                               Reina

                     Carragher      Agger       
    Arbelo                                         Dossena
                    Alonso    Mascherano
            Gerrard                          Babel
                         Keane
                                Torres
                   
Anyway, if we can't even figure out what Rafa is doing then I'm not sure the opposition will either. In Rafa I will continue to trust