Posted:
Wed Dec 15, 2010 8:40 am
by tubby
The thing is, though, that Rafa signed a contract for control over youth team and transfers but was never actually given the control in the following transfer windows and was sacked a year later having been given £16k to spend in the summer. (It was actually closer to minus £15m as we only paid £5m upfront for Aquilani and won't have paid any more of it since he's been loaned out to Juve). Glen Johnson cost £7.5m as Portsmouth owed us £10m from the Crouch deal (money we would otherwise have never seen again as their administration and relegation has shown). We sold Alonso for £30m 3x what he cost) and Arbeloa for £5m-odd. We spent £12.5m in real terms on their replacements and people still think Rafa was in control of the signings! Rafa set up a deal for Tevez but the owners refused it. He set up a deal for Michael Turner, but the owners refused it. (So he went for Kyrgiakos instead.)
The youth set up has provided us with Kelly, Shelvey, Pachecho, Suso and Wilson - all players bought into the club/academy by Rafa.
It's very easy to blame him for the failure of certain signings, but why do you think he wanted more control over said signings? He obviously wasn't happy with the players he was getting, so he tried to stop others interfering. It makes perfect sense if you ask me, and no-one in their right mind would think that this team is what Benitez wanted.[/quote]
Excellent post that. Some people really seem to have forgotten the constraints Rafa had to deal with. The fact that we were one of the most feared teams in Europe then just goes to show what a great tactician he is.
Posted:
Wed Dec 15, 2010 9:11 am
by rocky29
bavlondon wrote:The thing is, though, that Rafa signed a contract for control over youth team and transfers but was never actually given the control in the following transfer windows and was sacked a year later having been given £16k to spend in the summer. (It was actually closer to minus £15m as we only paid £5m upfront for Aquilani and won't have paid any more of it since he's been loaned out to Juve). Glen Johnson cost £7.5m as Portsmouth owed us £10m from the Crouch deal (money we would otherwise have never seen again as their administration and relegation has shown). We sold Alonso for £30m 3x what he cost) and Arbeloa for £5m-odd. We spent £12.5m in real terms on their replacements and people still think Rafa was in control of the signings! Rafa set up a deal for Tevez but the owners refused it. He set up a deal for Michael Turner, but the owners refused it. (So he went for Kyrgiakos instead.)
The youth set up has provided us with Kelly, Shelvey, Pachecho, Suso and Wilson - all players bought into the club/academy by Rafa.
It's very easy to blame him for the failure of certain signings, but why do you think he wanted more control over said signings? He obviously wasn't happy with the players he was getting, so he tried to stop others interfering. It makes perfect sense if you ask me, and no-one in their right mind would think that this team is what Benitez wanted.
Excellent post that. Some people really seem to have forgotten the constraints Rafa had to deal with. The fact that we were one of the most feared teams in Europe then just goes to show what a great tactician he is.[/quote]
he spent over 220 million over 5 years so dont talkabout constraints plus his man management skills were attrocious.
Posted:
Wed Dec 15, 2010 10:22 am
by tubby
rocky29 wrote:bavlondon wrote:The thing is, though, that Rafa signed a contract for control over youth team and transfers but was never actually given the control in the following transfer windows and was sacked a year later having been given £16k to spend in the summer. (It was actually closer to minus £15m as we only paid £5m upfront for Aquilani and won't have paid any more of it since he's been loaned out to Juve). Glen Johnson cost £7.5m as Portsmouth owed us £10m from the Crouch deal (money we would otherwise have never seen again as their administration and relegation has shown). We sold Alonso for £30m 3x what he cost) and Arbeloa for £5m-odd. We spent £12.5m in real terms on their replacements and people still think Rafa was in control of the signings! Rafa set up a deal for Tevez but the owners refused it. He set up a deal for Michael Turner, but the owners refused it. (So he went for Kyrgiakos instead.)
The youth set up has provided us with Kelly, Shelvey, Pachecho, Suso and Wilson - all players bought into the club/academy by Rafa.
It's very easy to blame him for the failure of certain signings, but why do you think he wanted more control over said signings? He obviously wasn't happy with the players he was getting, so he tried to stop others interfering. It makes perfect sense if you ask me, and no-one in their right mind would think that this team is what Benitez wanted.
Excellent post that. Some people really seem to have forgotten the constraints Rafa had to deal with. The fact that we were one of the most feared teams in Europe then just goes to show what a great tactician he is.
he spent over 220 million over 5 years so dont talkabout constraints plus his man management skills were attrocious.[/quote]
And what was his net spend each year? Something like 25 - 30mil? Tell me do Chelsea, Utd, Spurs or Man City expect to finish in the top 4 with those sort of resources? Your taking the overall figure and skewing it to fit some twisted agenda.
Posted:
Wed Dec 15, 2010 10:36 am
by Ben Patrick
what's Roys net spend out of curiosity ?
Posted:
Wed Dec 15, 2010 12:07 pm
by lakes10
bavlondon wrote:rocky29 wrote:bavlondon wrote:The thing is, though, that Rafa signed a contract for control over youth team and transfers but was never actually given the control in the following transfer windows and was sacked a year later having been given £16k to spend in the summer. (It was actually closer to minus £15m as we only paid £5m upfront for Aquilani and won't have paid any more of it since he's been loaned out to Juve). Glen Johnson cost £7.5m as Portsmouth owed us £10m from the Crouch deal (money we would otherwise have never seen again as their administration and relegation has shown). We sold Alonso for £30m 3x what he cost) and Arbeloa for £5m-odd. We spent £12.5m in real terms on their replacements and people still think Rafa was in control of the signings! Rafa set up a deal for Tevez but the owners refused it. He set up a deal for Michael Turner, but the owners refused it. (So he went for Kyrgiakos instead.)
The youth set up has provided us with Kelly, Shelvey, Pachecho, Suso and Wilson - all players bought into the club/academy by Rafa.
It's very easy to blame him for the failure of certain signings, but why do you think he wanted more control over said signings? He obviously wasn't happy with the players he was getting, so he tried to stop others interfering. It makes perfect sense if you ask me, and no-one in their right mind would think that this team is what Benitez wanted.
Excellent post that. Some people really seem to have forgotten the constraints Rafa had to deal with. The fact that we were one of the most feared teams in Europe then just goes to show what a great tactician he is.
he spent over 220 million over 5 years so dont talkabout constraints plus his man management skills were attrocious.
And what was his net spend each year? Something like 25 - 30mil? Tell me do Chelsea, Utd, Spurs or Man City expect to finish in the top 4 with those sort of resources? Your taking the overall figure and skewing it to fit some twisted agenda.[/quote]
still he got 76 players in them years and still could not bulid a team to win the prem and left us with no bench last year and this year.
Posted:
Wed Dec 15, 2010 12:35 pm
by jacdaniel
I think Roy's net spend was something like -2. In other words, we actually made some profit. Been that way for 2 years or so now.
And its the main reason why we're sh.ite these days. It wasn't Rafa's fault he had to shop in the bargain basement and it isnt Roys fault either.
i still don't think Roy is good enough to be our manager though. i think Rafa might have been with a bit more cash.
Posted:
Wed Dec 15, 2010 3:04 pm
by Benny The Noon
Ok couple of points
Konchesky and Skertl are not big name players in a million years
Konchesky is letting us down because he is not good enough and never was
Skertel has never been the same player since his head injury a couple of years ago
Torres - the manager doesnt set up the team to get the best out of him and he looks fed up
Gerrard - he is playing in his favourite position yet its not his best position
Cole - Was never going to be the same player as a couple years ago and we can see that
Pepe - a few errors which are creeping in mainly because of the pressure the back four are putting him under
A few other things -lakes why do you say you dont want this to turn into another thread about Hodgson and yet post countless posts slating previous manager in it ?
Posted:
Wed Dec 15, 2010 3:25 pm
by Ring-of-Fire
lakes10 wrote:bavlondon wrote:rocky29 wrote:bavlondon wrote:The thing is, though, that Rafa signed a contract for control over youth team and transfers but was never actually given the control in the following transfer windows and was sacked a year later having been given £16k to spend in the summer. (It was actually closer to minus £15m as we only paid £5m upfront for Aquilani and won't have paid any more of it since he's been loaned out to Juve). Glen Johnson cost £7.5m as Portsmouth owed us £10m from the Crouch deal (money we would otherwise have never seen again as their administration and relegation has shown). We sold Alonso for £30m 3x what he cost) and Arbeloa for £5m-odd. We spent £12.5m in real terms on their replacements and people still think Rafa was in control of the signings! Rafa set up a deal for Tevez but the owners refused it. He set up a deal for Michael Turner, but the owners refused it. (So he went for Kyrgiakos instead.)
The youth set up has provided us with Kelly, Shelvey, Pachecho, Suso and Wilson - all players bought into the club/academy by Rafa.
It's very easy to blame him for the failure of certain signings, but why do you think he wanted more control over said signings? He obviously wasn't happy with the players he was getting, so he tried to stop others interfering. It makes perfect sense if you ask me, and no-one in their right mind would think that this team is what Benitez wanted.
Excellent post that. Some people really seem to have forgotten the constraints Rafa had to deal with. The fact that we were one of the most feared teams in Europe then just goes to show what a great tactician he is.
he spent over 220 million over 5 years so dont talkabout constraints plus his man management skills were attrocious.
And what was his net spend each year? Something like 25 - 30mil? Tell me do Chelsea, Utd, Spurs or Man City expect to finish in the top 4 with those sort of resources? Your taking the overall figure and skewing it to fit some twisted agenda.
still he got 76 players in them years and still could not bulid a team to win the prem and left us with no bench last year and this year.[/quote]
76? I think you need to stop reading Sky's pages.
Rafa signed about 40 players for the first team, many of whom were replacements rather than additions. (He sold 46 first team players as well, which itself shows he was never given the funds to replace some players, let alone improve/increase the squad.)
The rest were all for the youth side, which is alright if, when it comes to comparing signings with other clubs, you also include THEIR youth players in the numbers. Even then, there'll be no mention of the fact that Rafa was reinventing the youth set up and had to replace a lot of dead wood and sub-standard reserve players. That's the problem with dickhead journos with a hard-on for Rafa - they skew the figures wildly as they know that there are people out there who believe everything they read.
For the record, Rafa's spending was as follows:
Bought: £229,125,000.
Sold: £148,130,000.
Net Spend: £80,995,000. (Divided by 6 = £13,499,166.70 per season.)
Question these things and it's easy to see the agendas and lies. It's also easy to see the lengths some scumbags will go to to defame one of the greatest managers in our history.