Liverpool FC Forum

by **Effes** » Sun Jul 19, 2009 8:48 pm

Sneijder will do a better job than Xabi

by **bigmick** » Sun Jul 19, 2009 9:18 pm

Lando_Griffin wrote:I'll give you an opinion - maybe then you can dismiss it like you do every other, and in months to come, reinvent it as a considerably altered version and continue to revisit it at every available opportunity...

You know - like my opinion that Alonso wasn't as bad as any of your bedfellows were making out, and that a lot of his good work was off-camera and thus unseen by many. That he employed tactical positions and still played a massive part in the prevention of opposition attacks by being in the right place at the right time. By occupying the zones the attackers would prefer to be, and thus negating much of the danger. All of a sudden that becomes "Alonso didn't have a dip in form at all, even though he admitted it himself, blah, blah, blah."

I really believe you spend so much time in isolation that you actually forget the reality, replacing it with your own misguided interpretation.

Just like you will do with the above.

Still - I suppose I am expecting a little too much from someone with a Hitler complex, who feels that he is righteous in his indignation and the rightful leader of the entire World.

Here's a little tip for you, seeing as you obviously lack the intellect to work it out for yourself:

If you really must revisit posts over a year old, might I suggest that you at least have the decency to reflect the opinions stated accurately, rather than regurgitating them with "90% BigMick Bullpats" added?

There's a good girl.

Young? I wouldn't do business with Martin O'Neill if you f*cking paid me, but should Young sign for someone else and we get another chance, I'd pay £15m and not a penny more. He's good, but he isn't THAT good.

*I await with baited breath the rewritten version of "Ashley Young is and I wouldn't buy him if you paid me" in a few months' time...

Your posts are getting stranger and stranger. "Hitler complex"

, "bedfellows", "bullpats added".

Why can't you just offer an opinion on a football matter without giving it all the nonsense, none of which makes any sense?

Anyway, onto the football points. Starting with Alonso's "unseen" work. Yes it's true to say that even during his dip in form he was still in posession of a good ability to read the game, his positional sense was still excellent. Is that your point? because if it is I agree with that. I always did and have said so hundreds of times, but I'm the one distorting the truth of what was written :laugh:

.

That's not all you said on the subject at the time however, that's not all you said to anybody who dared to voice an opinion the perhaps Xabi's form had dipped a smidge. No, in typical Lando style you launched into anyone who didn't see things your way. You attemted to bully, harry and discredit anyone who didn't worship at the same Xabi shrine as yourself. We both know this, but now you are trying to pretend different. Sabre also was of the opinion that Xabi's form hadn't dipped, but he didn't behave in the same was you did, he simply argued his point, it can be done.

Unfortunately of course, as is always the case whenever you really dig your heels in, start foaming at the mouth and turn on the bullying tactics, ultimately you were proven to be totally wrong. Not slightly wrong, but totally wrong. It's almost as if the more abusive you get towards people, the more your tendency to bully creeps in, the more chance you have of being wrong. I've never liked bullies though fella, never have and never will.

On the Ashley Young point, once again I mostly agree with you (I quite often do believe it or not). I don't think we'd get him for 20 million, I even think 30 might be pushing it knowing Martin O'Neill from the GB scenario. Although I think he's an excellent player, there is almost certainly better value available elsewhere.

Anyway nice to see you discussing football again, albeit with the inevitable personal attcks.

by **Sabre** » Sun Jul 19, 2009 9:47 pm

Erm, I don't want to enter in the middle of a tennis game with strong right handed shots from the back of the court, just a comment on what was spoken a year ago.

I think that nobody has denied that Alonso has played better this season than in previous ones. Correct? I guess that implies that Alonso's form has been better. This season everybody has been happy with Alonso's games, and more permissive when he hadn't that a great day. Except for TH and a few that traditionally have been quick to critizise Alonso's game.

A year ago, the discussion wasn't whether his form had dipped. Most of the discussion was about him not providing enough to the team, about the "safety pocket" or something, about opposition learning his game, about his slowlyness, about him needing to occupy higher positions on the pitch, about we could swap him for Barry as he was the better player, among other jewelry that the high standards of newkit football discussion brought as every summer.

So, the discussion on Alonso wasn't as monotopic as his form had dipped or not, lots of things were said and discussed about Alonso. I'd say Alonso got a lot more stick than his game deserved, and most of the overdefending of Alonso was to this kind of stick.

Some of them things that were discussed, proved to be good opinions, like the one that advocated for Alonso needing to go upper in the field more often. Some of it was fair enough, and a some of it have proved to be bóllocks with the test of time.

So, without wanting to enter this tennis match between Lando and Mick, I'd say the positions of last year of Lando, me and anyone had a lot of subtleties and topics of discussion, and it wasn't about Alonso's form having dipped.

by **heimdall** » Sun Jul 19, 2009 9:49 pm

Good post BigMick, Number 9 and Lando get very frustrated when they can't win an argument don't they. Now in Number 9's case that is mostly down to lack of brains, footballing knowledge and vocabulary but Lando is apparently and certainly by his own modest admissions an intelligent guy although if anyone should be accused of having a "Hitler" complex (btw totally new phrase on me) then it is surely someone who contantly goes around calling everyone else an idiot and sh1tting on their opinions. So maybe Lando is not so smart or is it perhaps some kind of Freudian slip or cry for help or something. I'm not sure, I'm not a physciatrist but when Lando finally does go into therapy one of these days I think that shrink is going to hit paydirt.

by **JC_81** » Sun Jul 19, 2009 9:50 pm

I'll say it again, 32 million for Alonso is good business whatever way you look at it. Personally I'd take it, it's clear his heart's not in it anymore.

by **heimdall** » Sun Jul 19, 2009 9:52 pm

[quote="Sabre"][/quote]
Hi Sabre, what's the latest spanish gossip on Xabi, any news from Uncle Alberto?

by **Sabre** » Sun Jul 19, 2009 9:59 pm

heimdall wrote:
Sabre wrote:

Hi Sabre, what's the latest spanish gossip on Xabi, any news from Uncle Alberto?

I can see only Uncle Alberto at work, but I'll be happy to tell him his prediction of Alonso's deal done for weekend was a load of bóllocks

So yes, both Uncle Alberto and Uncle Albert are equally as good predicting.

The gossip is the one of Marca, who say Real Madrid are fed up of Liverpool and angry at their attitude (Liverpool wasn't ársed to even respond to the 27M offer that expired on July 10th). Marca says Real Madrid has given up, and that Madrid must focus on selling their transferable players before thinking on paying money for anyone else.

Marca (Mark) also says that Mourinho's Inter is already in conversations for Alonso with our club, and that they might put the money on the table if the Ibrahimovic deal goes through.

The fact though is that Alonso goes to Asia, and that Rafa and Purslow didn't allow our important players go on the cheap. Which is nice

by **bigmick** » Sun Jul 19, 2009 10:10 pm

Sabre wrote:Erm, I don't want to enter in the middle of a tennis game with strong right handed shots from the back of the court, just a comment on what was spoken a year ago.

I think that nobody has denied that Alonso has played better this season than in previous ones. Correct? I guess that implies that Alonso's form has been better. This season everybody has been happy with Alonso's games, and more permissive when he hadn't that a great day. Except for TH and a few that traditionally have been quick to critizise Alonso's game.

A year ago, the discussion wasn't whether his form had dipped. Most of the discussion was about him not providing enough to the team, about the "safety pocket" or something, about opposition learning his game, about his slowlyness, about him needing to occupy higher positions on the pitch, about we could swap him for Barry as he was the better player, among other jewelry that the high standards of newkit football discussion brought as every summer.

So, the discussion on Alonso wasn't as monotopic as his form had dipped or not, lots of things were said and discussed about Alonso. I'd say Alonso got a lot more stick than his game deserved, and most of the overdefending of Alonso was to this kind of stick.

Some of them things that were discussed, proved to be good opinions, like the one that advocated for Alonso needing to go upper in the field more often. Some of it was fair enough, and a some of it have proved to be bóllocks with the test of time.

So, without wanting to enter this tennis match between Lando and Mick, I'd say the positions of last year of Lando, me and anyone had a lot of subtleties and topics of discussion, and it wasn't about Alonso's form having dipped.

As I said in my post Sabre, there was much discussion about Alonso. For those who actually wanted to debate the subject, there was talk of how impact his injuries had had, whether he was being closed down by the opposition centre forward, whether he played in the pocket too much, whether he would benefit from moving furhter up the pitch, whether his contributions in terms of continuity, tempo setting and positional play were enough to offset the fact that he wasn't contributing from an attacking sense any more etc etc. Most people debated the subject fairly objectively, with one or two exceptions.

IMHO there were a couple of people who were overly zealous in their criticism of Alonso. At times, it was implied that he had become useless, and this was not the case. That said, as is always the case on here there were people on the other side of the coin. Some like yourself and Bad Bob argued very sensibly that if there had been any dip, it was extremely marginal and that the reality was that we had kind of become used to Xabi's contribution, taken it for granted etc. Like all opinions expessed in such a way, this one was fair enough.

Others though decided as usual to attack any poster who dared to voice an opinion that "the most important player at the club" possibly wasn't firing on all cylinders. Anybody who dared to disagree with them, even though they are almost alwasy wrong about everything, were gimps, c...s, w@nkers, know nothings, fecking erseholes etc etc etc etc as the "bullying mode" kicked into full throttle.

As history has proven again and again, at that point the argument was over. As soon as this faction resort to abuse, bullying and belittlement, it's only a matter of time before they are proven to be hopelessly wrong, lifes like that. In the cruelest and most crushing of ironies here, the very player who was being worshipped suddenly played a lot better rendering the argument a nonsense. He even said himself his form had dipped, OOOPs!! The bully was wrong again.

It's a bit like the Michael Owen situation. I was/am still undecided on the rights and wrongs of us not signing him. I was still undecided on whether he will be a success for them as well until a couple of weeks back. I now am fairly sure though that he will be a success in a Man Utd shirt. Why? Because the silliness kicked in, the bullying mode got switched on, and now of course it's only a matter of time before they are proven to be ridiculously wrong, again. He'll probably score shedloads of goals now for Man Utd, as sure as night follows day.

by **LFC2007** » Sun Jul 19, 2009 10:45 pm

I remember Lando acknowledging Alonso's form had dipped, that he was perhaps 80% of his best form, but that this was still miles better than most midfielders. IIRC, you more or less agreed, Mick.

It got heated at times when people argued Masch was much the better player and this was effectively fact (Bamaga and co), others argued he wasn't cut out for the Premier League because he didn't have the pace and toughness. Course Lando went over the top at times without a reasonable degree of provocation, but so did others with their own brand of dogmatic realism - mocking those who cared to think otherwise about his standing as a player (and they were quite arguably very wrong in the end). It works both ways.

Sorry, my point is; why all this sh!te with the two of you now? What's changed? Why is he the 'bully' and no longer the 'valued poster'?

by **Sabre** » Sun Jul 19, 2009 10:59 pm

Yes, Lando insulted a la Lando last season, but not you IIRC, but those who were way harsher than you on Alonso (you were quite balanced on the Alonso topic and I hardly remember disagreeing much on Alonso except in the bit of the selling price).

I see that now and during my holidays and even before you and Lando have been exchanging posts. Lando has been abusive with you, and you have winded up him aswell with your prose. And I don't like it nor I'll take sides in two posters I like to read.

The thing is that I've been here long enough to know Lando is not Satanas, and I've been long enough here to appreciate your football input here, which is one of the best, even if I disagree parts of it (partly in rotation, and partly on the manager).

All I know is that you two posted here for 4 years without having problems with each other, and I'd like you come back to that status. No matter how good you think you are writing, nobody of you will convince the regular posters of newkit that the other one is a c..t. The ones who think that are already convinced and no discussion will change that. The others, a majority I think, who like both posters like me, will be already very tired of this bickering.

You have no option but doing a truce!

If you don't then the cards reset of the new rules will come, and the new system will prove to be useless in the first dissapointing draw of the season

.

In a nutshell: Don't fight you two and come back to your normal interaction of 2004-2008.

On Michael Owen, don't get me started. I haven't even read the thread, I always had a soft spot for that player, and I never ever doubted his quality. If the Manchester United doctors think his injury nightmare has been a matter of luck and everything will be fine with them, you know how's Murphy, they may be right. Quite simply Owen is a player that if injuries respect him he has a lot of quality, even if he's not at his best.

I hope he doesn't score a lot of goals because that will be very hurting to me.

:no

by **bigmick** » Sun Jul 19, 2009 11:36 pm

Much has changed on the forum since LFC2007's days, God knows much has changed. People have come and gone, some gone permanently whereas others have come back time and again, and much has changed with the "feel" of the place. People have changed also, people do.

For my part, I spent my first four years on the forum and rarely had a cross word with anybody on it. Over the last eighteen months or so however, things have changed. Some of that has been of my own doing. Whereas previously I would take abuse and bullsh!t off of people and straight bat it away with the "I don't do flame wars on the internet" there came a point where I thought enough was enough. I don't know when or why that was, but that point certainly arrived.

The people who were/are dishing it out would no doubt say that I deserved it, that I had changed from a good poster into an annoying one but whatever, everyone should be entitled to a football opinion without being villified. Now whether it was because of the changing nature of the attacks, whether it was because they hurt or angered more which caused a response, or whether it was because I felt certain people were/are immune from moderational intervention I don't know, but I decided to begin to stand up for myself a bit. See it's one thing someone calling you a c... because they disagree in a football sense, but for me I think the breaking point was when personal stuff comes into the argument, along with thinly veiled bullying language. If some of the people on here said some of the things they have to me over the years to my face, they would have got a bit of a shock and that's for sure.

And on to the most recent "spat" with Lando. By and large I try and give him a wide berth generally for a couple of reasons. He spends most of his time in general chat for starters, whereas I stay to football unless there's nobody there. Equally, because of the fact that if you disagree with him it inevitably descends into ridiculousness it's pointless discussing football with him IMHO, utterly pointless. In the main and as a rule, I avoid him. Sure I see him rampaging through the boards, picking out his latest victim for abuse and showering them with highly literate insults. Normally, they take it for a while, respond, then get banned as has been the case recently (another reason to give the whole thing a miss I'd say). As I've always said with the rules, I don't mind what they are or indeed if there are any at all, as long as they apply to everyone.

Anyway over the last month or so, a couple of times Lando got involved ina couple of discussions I was having and decided to "put me in my place". It was all good, he was talking utter b0ll0cks of course as he always does on all matters football, and as per usual I gave him the swerve. I can't remember the threads and don't as a rule dig up old posts anyway (to quote them at least) but my response on one of them was something like "I heard you loud and clear big fella". He sloped off to have a row with someone else and all was good. It was only a couple of weeks ago though when he began telling the World that "Mick was talking out of his erse and I fecking told him so" that I decided enough was enough. The time has come to expose his buffoonery for what it is.

Much has changed on the forum, but although I have changed one thing hasn't. I've never liked bullies. Never have, and never will.

by **LFC2007** » Mon Jul 20, 2009 12:19 am

I don't know what to say really, other than to echo sabre's comments. Neither of you are cunts in the truest sense of the word and I'm sure both of you know that (deep down :laugh:

). You'd likely get on fine in the real (the real, real) world.

Jerry Springer here :blues:

by **bigmick** » Mon Jul 20, 2009 12:26 am

LFC2007 wrote:I don't know what to say really, other than to echo sabre's comments. Neither of you are cunts in the truest sense of the word and I'm sure both of you know that (deep down ). You'd likely get on fine in the real (the real, real) world.

Jerry Springer here

I may not be one in the truest sense of the word, but I'm one partially is that what you're saying

(If you are it's a fair one) :wwww

by **Ciggy** » Mon Jul 20, 2009 12:31 am

Sabre wrote:The gossip is the one of Marca, who say Real Madrid are fed up of Liverpool and angry at their attitude (Liverpool wasn't ársed to even respond to the 27M offer that expired on July 10th).

Cheeky kunts, we are fed up with them trying to buy our best players, ohhhhhhhh that club makes me so angry. So blind to their own faults think they are above the world. :no

by **LFC2007** » Mon Jul 20, 2009 12:31 am

bigmick wrote:
LFC2007 wrote:I don't know what to say really, other than to echo sabre's comments. Neither of you are cunts in the truest sense of the word and I'm sure both of you know that (deep down ). You'd likely get on fine in the real (the real, real) world.

Jerry Springer here

I may not be one in the truest sense of the word, but I'm one partially is that what you're saying (If you are it's a fair one)

Who hasn't been a c....t?

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