Liverpool FC Forum

by **Bad Bob** » Mon Sep 15, 2008 2:25 pm

Sabre wrote:*scratching head*

I don't see a so much improved Alonso, honestly. I don't see that abismal difference.

The difference maybe is that the team has achieved a massive victory and a victory against archenemies just make players better?

I truly don't know where the improvement lies. Yes, perhaps he has ventured a bit more forward, but I don't see a great difference in terms of defensive work, passes that are lost, and the sense he gives to his passing. Not that in this two years you could tell Alonso was the culprit of many against goals neither. In a nutshell, Alonso isn't that good now, Alonso wasn't that poor these two years. IMHO, of course. If someone thinks like Neil that he has improved a lot, tell me where I'm wrong!

Spot on, mate. Alonso looked like much the same player out there to me on Saturday. The difference was that we had better width and better movement up front than usual. As Mick's said, we also had Mascherano bursting forward and opening space. I don't think Alonso is anywhere near as inconsistent as some make out. He's a fairly steady eddy most matches. When we don't ever look like scoring he comes in for criticism but when we win comfortably (esp. against a hated rival) he's seen as one of the best players on the park. So much depends on what goes on around him because he's not really a 'take the game by the scruff of the neck" type (at least not for us...still remember him doing that against Greece for Spain this summer).

by **JC_81** » Mon Sep 15, 2008 5:36 pm

bigmick wrote:I don't think he has improved massively from last season. The significant difference in his pairing with Masherano from last season was that the little Argentine got forward much more than he was doing previously. When he does, the pairing functions much better. That's not because Masherano is massively creative, nor because Alonso can do it better on his own, but simply because in English football having two holding midfielders within five yards of each other all game doesn't work.

Cant say I agree Mick. While the players around Alonso and the movement ahead of him may have helped his game on Saturday, that's not the reason for his better performance imo.

Last season he was a yard off the pace almost every time I watched him play and his passing game wasn't up to scratch. That's got very little to do with the players around him, the opposition, or our tactics, it's down to him.

Still, Saturday was only one game and I'll reserve judgement on whether Alonso is getting back to his best for a few weeks yet. Maybe the Barry fiasco had a positive mental effect on him, he has something to prove to Benitez if not the fans. Against United he was sharper than he has been for a long time, his passing was good, his physical fitness was good and his understanding with Mascherano was good. Big improvement.

by **Number 9** » Mon Sep 15, 2008 5:52 pm

Sabre wrote:*scratching head*

I did'nt know you had Dandruff?

by **Reg** » Mon Sep 15, 2008 6:20 pm

bigmick wrote:
nextgendesign wrote:xabi is the king

As first posts go, it was a bit short.

Could be something to be learnt from that Mick !! :laugh:

by **Sabre** » Mon Sep 15, 2008 6:37 pm

I haven't Barry. Thanks precisely to that shampoo

It's lovely to disagree about something without insulting, I like this thread.

Bigmick's point of Mascherano is crucial, Alonso does need certain type of players around him. More than going forward, the player around him must know doing a very related thing, to be able to run with the ball. But both things are very related. In fact I also find crucial that both players participate more in the attacking part of our game. I think that Riera's presence will allow them that more, indirectly.

In Antiguoko (feeder club), when youngster he spanked all the youngster teams of Spain alongside Arteta.

In Real Sociedad, he converted a relegation team in title challenger with Aranburu.

And in Liverpool he's compatible both with Gerrard and Mascherano.

What does need the player that plays alongside Alonso to be compatible? he has to be a good "driver" of the ball, he must be able to run with the ball comfortably, which is something every player that formed a succesful partnership with Alonso had. And Alonso simply hasn't. Mascherano and Gerrard certainly have that ability.

Bad Bob's point of movement (also mentioned by Stu several times) is also correct IMHO -- you see everyone has a bit of truth. But a good movement is not only good for Alonso but for everyone.

I think Mascherano Alonso, Gerrard-Alonso are different pairings, with different aims, but both compatible. The latter would require a more "sitting deep" Alonso, and the former requires that both Alonso and Mascherano alternate going forward.

What it won't work never is a Alonso-Hamman partnership, it would be incompatible, we'd struggle to make the transition from defence to attack with the ball controlled.

Alonso-Sissoko? the other day Bigmick missed that pairing. I miss it when we haven't the ball, not when we have it. Sissoko wasn't a good "driver" of the ball -- please tell me how you tell the ability to run with the ball in english.

by **zarababe** » Mon Sep 15, 2008 8:28 pm

Reg wrote:
bigmick wrote:
nextgendesign wrote:xabi is the king

As first posts go, it was a bit short.

Could be something to be learnt from that Mick !!

Sabe what does Alonso senior say re:Alonso's future ?

by **bigmick** » Mon Sep 15, 2008 9:40 pm

Reg wrote:
bigmick wrote:
nextgendesign wrote:xabi is the king

As first posts go, it was a bit short.

Could be something to be learnt from that Mick !!

Fair one Reg, he might well be onto something the lad

.

by **Toffeehater** » Mon Sep 15, 2008 9:52 pm

Reg wrote:
bigmick wrote:
nextgendesign wrote:xabi is the king

As first posts go, it was a bit short.

Could be something to be learnt from that Mick !!

oh the irony !

by **Bad Bob** » Tue Sep 16, 2008 1:08 pm

From today's Echo:

Xabi Alonso's rebirth has left Spanish ace fully focused

Sep 16 2008 EXCLUSIVE by Tony Barrett, Liverpool Echo

Alonso’s rebirth has left Spanish ace fully focused

IT is only a matter of weeks since Xabi Alonso's very future as a Liverpool player was in question as Gareth Barry looked set to take his place at Anfield.

On the day of the Reds’ last foreign trip to take on Standard Liege in a Champions League qualifier there were even doubts about whether Alonso would feature in that game as an appearance would have left him cup tied and possibly reduced his transfer value.

But a groin injury to Steven Gerrard and Javier Mascherano's involvement at the Olympics left Rafa Benitez with no option but to play Alonso, and from that moment on the Spanish midfielder has shown why so many Liverpool fans were so distraught at the idea that he might depart.

Tonight, Alonso will again play away in Europe for Liverpool, only this time without any of the doubts which shrouded his last appearance, and he insists the only thing on his mind now is doing well for the club he has come to love since joining from Real Sociedad four years ago.

"It has been a bit of a strange time for me but now I am absolutely focused on Liverpool," he said.

"I am looking forward to the rest of the season and hopefully we will do well because we know how important that is to the fans.

"I have always really appreciated the support of the Liverpool fans and they are really special.

"They know when a player is committed to the club and I always try to give 100% for them because the best way I can repay them for their support is on the pitch."

That support was most apparent when Liverpool took on Lazio in a pre-season friendly at Anfield when the Kop repeatedly chanted Alonso's name in a show of solidarity with a player who seemed to be heading for the exit door against their wishes.

But when the move for Barry collapsed, Alonso's immediate Anfield future was secured and the 26-year-old now wants to look forward instead of back, even though his gratitude for such emphatic backing from the Liverpool fans is as clear as could be.

The future begins tonight when the Reds take on Marseille in their first fixture of this season's Champions League group stage, and Alonso believes the whole team is going into the clash at the atmospheric Stade Velodrome with spirits raised by Saturday's long awaited victory over Man United.

He said: "The team has started the season very well. It was important to pick up as many points as we could early on in the Premier League and we have done that.

"To get ten points from our first four games is a good start and we are delighted about that, but there is still a lot of hard work to be done.

"The result on Saturday was very important in terms of confidence because it was the first big test of the season against one of our big rivals and we passed it.

"In the last few seasons we have managed to beat Arsenal and Chelsea at home but we hadn't managed to beat Man United, so it was important for us to do that.

"It was also important because it sent out a message that Anfield will be a difficult place for any team to come to this season.

"In the first 10-15 minutes we did not control the midfield as we would have liked to have done, but after that Dirk (Kuyt) dropped a bit deeper and that helped us a lot because we got more control.

"We also stopped giving the ball away as much as we had been doing and our performance got better as the game went on."

Alonso played a key role in that victory and was named man of the match by several commentators as, after a difficult opening 20 minutes, he and Mascherano managed to wrestle control of midfield.

Their combined performance in the Reds’ engine room was key to Liverpool's eventual victory, and Alonso believes his own form is now at the kind of level he wants it to be following a season when injuries took their toll last time around.

"I am in a good moment right now," he said.

"I felt good during the games in pre-season and also at the European Championships with Spain even though I did not play so many games.

"Last season I had a couple of problems with foot injuries and when I came back for the second time there was a spell when I was not pain free, but by the end of the season I felt like I was playing well and the team was also doing well.

"Now I just have to keep on doing my best for the team because there is a lot of competition for places, especially in midfield, and if I do well then hopefully I will stay in the team."

His army of fans at Anfield would like nothing better than for Alonso's name to appear on the team sheet more often than not, and given the way he has started the season it would be something of a surprise if the likeable Spaniard was taken out of Benitez's starting eleven.

But for now, he is just concentrating on doing everything he can for the team as it looks to continue its unbeaten start to the season against a Marseille side which is also still to taste defeat.

"It will be tough," said Alonso. "But we have confidence and hopefully we can keep our run going."

----

A nice read with some good insights. The point about Dirk helping the Masch and Xabi seize control of the midfield is another point for the pro-Kuyt contingent. I also found it interesting to hear that Alonso struggled with the foot injury longer than most of us realized last season. Top lad and I'm made up he's still with us. Oh, and Stevie had some nice remarks about him yesterday too! :;):

by **Sabre** » Tue Sep 16, 2008 1:57 pm

We know nothing of football, I think we got better in the pressing, and the player who really knows what's going on gives credit to Kuyt.

It sems though Alonso gives much importance to the men playing on the wings, last season gave a bit of stick to Babel's decissions while he was here on holidays (he said so in a mild way) and now he credits Kuyt.

I missed those remarks of Gerrard mate, in the official site?

P.S. Bad Bob, the initial question of the thread, is it good or bad that alonso wants to stay, has been widely discussed. Perhaps if S@int agrees you may rename it to "the Alonso thread" to discuss the things related to Xabi?

by **Bad Bob** » Tue Sep 16, 2008 2:42 pm

Sabre wrote:I missed those remarks of Gerrard mate, in the official site?

From yesterday's Echo, mate:

Liverpool FC 2 Manchester United 1: Steven Gerrard tribute to Xabi Alonso

Sep 15 2008 by David Prentice, Liverpool Echo

Gerrard’s backing for star Alonso

REDS skipper Steven Gerrard saluted the mental strength of fellow Reds midfielder Xabi Alonso.

The Spaniard endured a summer of constant speculation about his future – at one point seeming bound for Juventus – but he has now featured in all but 45 minutes of Liverpool’s six matches this season and was excellent against United.

“I would like to say a word for Xabi,” declared Gerrard. “This has been a very difficult time for him right up to the transfer window shutting.

“He didn't know whether he was coming or going, but he got man of the match against United and that says a lot about him.”

It was Alonso’s ball into the penalty area which led to Liverpool’s equaliser and Gerrard added: “It was a great win but the most pleasing thing was the performance.

“They got an early goal and that was a blow, but the reaction from our side, the character shown and workrate, produced a lot of positives. We got even stronger.

“When you get a win against the best side in the league you know it will put you in good stead for the future. We realise it is only early days and of course it does not mean we will go on and win the league.

“Now the belief will be there when we go away to the other top sides like United and Chelsea because they know we are capable of beating them.

“We are only a few games in, but we believe we can be in the hunt come March and April. We want it really badly and the fans can see that.”

“You can understand when the manager says this was a game worth more than just three points. If you beat teams like United, it is bound to help you for future games.

“I’m sure the United players will realise that we want this title really badly. I know it’s only a few games in, but we want to be there come March and April.And I must make a special mention of the supporters, they were unbelievable.”

United were the only title rival Liverpool had not defeated in the league during four previous seasons under Benitez.

And Gerrard added: “It’s certainly up there with our best results in the Premier League in recent years. We’ve had a lot of big performances at Anfield, notably in Europe. But we’ve had a bit of criticism for our performances in the past when the other so-called top three have come here.

“This is a big statement for the future but it’s important that we keep our feet on the ground. We’ve just got to take the positives and use them to our advantage for the games coming up.

“The pleasing thing for me was, while watching three-quarters of the game from the bench, I could see how together we were.

“It would have been easy for us to sulk over the first goal and become nervous in our play, but we reacted perfectly.

“The character and work-rate from the players was fantastic. The longer the game went on, we became even stronger.”

Gerrard added: “It was hard to sit and watch from the bench, but I think the manager did the sensible thing with me. I’d only had one full training session. My heart was saying I was desperate to start, but there are another 40-50 games hopefully this season.

“The game came a little bit soon for me, but I got part of it. The atmosphere in the training room was fantastic after the game.

“I wasn’t ready to start. I’d been training on my own for the last 10 days. The most I could have played was 20-25 minutes.”

P.S. Bad Bob, the initial question of the thread, is it good or bad that alonso wants to stay, has been widely discussed. Perhaps if S@int agrees you may rename it to "the Alonso thread" to discuss the things related to Xabi?

Sounds reasonable. Whadya say, Saint?

by **Fo Dne** » Tue Sep 16, 2008 3:49 pm

stmichael wrote:He looks like a different player at times when playing for Spain.

It seems that with Spain, he is surrounded by technically good players who move around all game - he always has options and this brings out the best in him because he sees the pass very early so the ball moves around the pitch very quickly when Spain attack.

Lets just hope he steps up to the plate in Gerrard's absence tomorrow, a bit like he did in the Derby a few years back after Gerrard got sent off.

That was posted on LFConline the other day...

by **Sabre** » Tue Sep 16, 2008 4:02 pm

“I would like to say a word for Xabi,” declared Gerrard. “This has been a very difficult time for him right up to the transfer window shutting.

“He didn't know whether he was coming or going, but he got man of the match against United and that says a lot about him.”

Thanks for that Bob, proper words from a captain.

Better late than never, we'd say, as back then in those uncertain days of summer Alonso didn't hear his captains defending his situation but rather saying sign Barry who's my friend.

by **Kukilon** » Tue Sep 16, 2008 6:24 pm

Sabre wrote:
“I would like to say a word for Xabi,” declared Gerrard. “This has been a very difficult time for him right up to the transfer window shutting.

“He didn't know whether he was coming or going, but he got man of the match against United and that says a lot about him.”

Thanks for that Bob, proper words from a captain.

Better late than never, we'd say, as back then in those uncertain days of summer Alonso didn't hear his captains defending his situation but rather saying sign Barry who's my friend.

Hehe that's what I thaught also when I read Gerrards statement.

As it looks right now it seems that Alonso has understood that he has either got to raise his levels or move. Playing well will help him whatever happens and if he continues like he has done this season I'd rather have him here than some other CM. Alonso seems like a real pro and if there is one person on our team that could deal with this situation and make a come back it's him. If I was in his position I'd say " :censored:

it" and move somewhere where I was really wanted.

The sad part is that if we need money for right winger Alonso would be the perfect player to sell since he will bring us quite a lot of cash and we are quite stocked with CMs.

by **tubby** » Sun Sep 28, 2008 7:39 pm

Great pass yesteday from Alonso to Keane to set up Torres' first goal. He also set up Torres' goal against Sunderland and supplied the cross that was eventually headed down to Gerrard for the winner against Boro. He may have left his shooting boots at home this year but he is still looking sharp with his passing.

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