Liverpool FC Forum

by **112-1077774096** » Thu Jun 19, 2008 2:18 am

taff wrote:
peewee wrote:well i have heard gerrard come out and say he wants to partner barry and what a great signing it will be, I am yet to hear him say 'keep alonso, i love playing in midfield with him'.

lets leave the decision to rafa, the funny thing is the guys on here bemoaning us going after barry and looking to offload alonso are the same guys who spout the "in rafa we trust" bollox. well if you trust the guy to always do the the right thing then stop questioning it, or are you now admitting that rafa is flawed when it comes to the transfer market?

fair point to be honest, we can always blame the owners

I do trust Rafa but I am still allowed to question a decision especially if we lose a player I rate very highly. Of course he will make mistakes I can accept that but it doesnt mean I dont think that long term he is the best man for the job.

If however we buy or sell players on Gerrards say so then something has gone wrong, great world class player but not the manager, although I am sceptical about SG pulling the strings

it was such a fair point taff that you responded twice

I dont really mean that SG is pulling the strings but I am pointing to him coming out and praising barry and airing his view that they are a good partnership whilst not mentioning his partnership with alonso.

I rate alonso highly, however I will stand by my belief that he has been nowhere near the level he was in his first season and is now down the pecking order to mash (rightly so).

Rafa obvioulsy see's something in barry (but then again he saw something in voronin

). I like barry but i dont think he is worth 15 million, and the people saying they think this is to do with the 6+5 rule bare in mind we are bombing out crouch so its not exactly increasing the english players.

by **Reg** » Thu Jun 19, 2008 2:25 am

Just finished watching the LFC cup final against West Ham and now watching Brazil play Argentina live in the world cup qualifiers.

Another long night looms.... :laugh:

by **taff** » Thu Jun 19, 2008 2:41 am

Reg wrote:Just finished watching the LFC cup final against West Ham and now watching Brazil play Argentina live in the world cup qualifiers.

Another long night looms....

maybe thats why alonso is off nobody takes him seriously

by **taff** » Thu Jun 19, 2008 2:50 am

peewee wrote:
taff wrote:
peewee wrote:well i have heard gerrard come out and say he wants to partner barry and what a great signing it will be, I am yet to hear him say 'keep alonso, i love playing in midfield with him'.

lets leave the decision to rafa, the funny thing is the guys on here bemoaning us going after barry and looking to offload alonso are the same guys who spout the "in rafa we trust" bollox. well if you trust the guy to always do the the right thing then stop questioning it, or are you now admitting that rafa is flawed when it comes to the transfer market?

fair point to be honest, we can always blame the owners

I do trust Rafa but I am still allowed to question a decision especially if we lose a player I rate very highly. Of course he will make mistakes I can accept that but it doesnt mean I dont think that long term he is the best man for the job.

If however we buy or sell players on Gerrards say so then something has gone wrong, great world class player but not the manager, although I am sceptical about SG pulling the strings

it was such a fair point taff that you responded twice

I dont really mean that SG is pulling the strings but I am pointing to him coming out and praising barry and airing his view that they are a good partnership whilst not mentioning his partnership with alonso.

I rate alonso highly, however I will stand by my belief that he has been nowhere near the level he was in his first season and is now down the pecking order to mash (rightly so).

Rafa obvioulsy see's something in barry (but then again he saw something in voronin ). I like barry but i dont think he is worth 15 million, and the people saying they think this is to do with the 6+5 rule bare in mind we are bombing out crouch so its not exactly increasing the english players.

The Crouch debate is interesting although the new rule may or may not apply but we shouldnt have players who arent in our plans regardless of nationality.

I do reckon that Alonso is not as bad while Mash is not world beater we think. Close but not quite there IMO. Even this season a bad one has witnessed some superb play by Alonso while to be honest Mash lost the plot at Old Trafford which is overlooked. I love the both of them in the team but I dont agree with the building one player up while downgrading another.

In Sg defence he doesnt really say much about the other players bar Torres perhaps who has been outstanding, what has SG said about Mash for example. The Barry thing is probably to assure Barry he is wanted by the club, so I wouldnt read too much into that.

My main main concern is we have hoofed the ball from the back and that has not helped the midfield and with his injury we have not seen the best of Alonso. If Agger played all season and Alonso wasnt injured and he still had a shocker then I would be less defensive but as it stands now I think its a mistake

by **LFC2007** » Thu Jun 19, 2008 2:57 am

peewee wrote:well i have heard gerrard come out and say he wants to partner barry and what a great signing it will be, I am yet to hear him say 'keep alonso, i love playing in midfield with him'.

lets leave the decision to rafa, the funny thing is the guys on here bemoaning us going after barry and looking to offload alonso are the same guys who spout the "in rafa we trust" bollox. well if you trust the guy to always do the the right thing then stop questioning it, or are you now admitting that rafa is flawed when it comes to the transfer market?

It's an interesting point, though it's inevitable that those who fundamentally support Rafa will differ in opinion with some of his decisions in certain instances.

If you're looking for a contradiction, IMO, you can't go far wrong with the; 'Pako was obviously the brains behind it' line, a line that took its place alongside the 'Rafa's reign has been a disaster' one.

by **account deleted by request** » Thu Jun 19, 2008 12:49 pm

What I find strange about the proposed transfer of Alonso is that we gave him a 5 year contract only last season, (usually you have to pay extra to sign a player for 5 years rather than the more common 4 years)especially after there where strong rumours that Rafa had tried to p/x Alonso for Eto'o just before he was offered a new contract. Again with Sissoko we gave him a new contract just before we sold him.

Maybe the contracts were given out before Rafa realised how little money our two owners really had ?

by **stmichael** » Thu Jun 19, 2008 12:53 pm

As far as I can see, the main problem is that Rafa has had success with the 4-2-3-1 formation and obviously is wanting players who suit this formation and I dont think Alonso does, neither do Pennant and Crouch which is why I expect them both to leave aswell.

by **Sabre** » Thu Jun 19, 2008 12:59 pm

stmichael wrote:As far as I can see, the main problem is that Rafa has had success with the 4-2-3-1 formation and obviously is wanting players who suit this formation and I dont think Alonso does, neither do Pennant and Crouch which is why I expect them both to leave aswell.

That could also explain why Balague or someone close to Rafa said we wouldn't sign another top class striker because we already have one.

In an scenario of a lone striker, you can't afford to buy Villa to have one of them in the bench.

As for S@int's point, I wondered the same, but I think it's just a ruthless measure of Rafa for the players that he consider quality, but not irreplaceable. With the absence of release clauses in England, that gives you full control of the negotiation. That's the only explanation I find, unless Rafa's opinion on Alonso has changed this year due to a major fall out.

But Alonso has told the local press Benitez has all the team behind him only 2 weeks ago... so that doesn't seem to be the case.

by **stmichael** » Thu Jun 19, 2008 1:20 pm

Sabre wrote:In an scenario of a lone striker, you can't afford to buy Villa to have one of them in the bench.

Exactly.

Villa is an exceptional player but I don't believe he would fit in to our current system. Or at least you will be limiting his impact.

His movement across the back line is exceptional but that's because he's given to do so from a central starting point. Drifting outwide is natural instint for a striker, drifing inside from out wide is not. He may adapt brilliantly but it would still be a big gamble to make given the amount of money we are talking about. Its not a great comparison but look at Henry. At Arsenal he was a central striker but often drifted out left, it worked as it was a natural movement. He had the freedom to make that movement. At Barca he's played immediately on the left, it is a forced move and not a natural one. He's not used to drifting inside from out. He's not looked comfortable at all.

If we were to sign Villa he'd have to play upfront alongside Torres and we'd have to adjust the team accordingly imo.

It's all hypothetical of course because we were never in the race to sign Villa in the first place anyway, and anyone who thought we were is naive in the extreme.

by **account deleted by request** » Thu Jun 19, 2008 1:40 pm

Originally Posted by George Costanza TLW
I've read what you've said elsewhere Coop. I just disagree with it.

Villa is an exceptional player but I don't believe he would fit in to our current system. Or at least you will be limiting his impact.

I agree completely about his movement across the back line but thats because he's given to do so from a central starting point. Drifting outwide is natural instint for a striker, drifing inside from out wide is not. He may adapt brilliantly and you could be spot on but its a big gamble to make given the amount of money we are talking about. Its not a great comparison but look at Henry. At Arsneal he was a central striker but often drifted out left, it worked as it was a natural movement. He had the freedom to make that movement. At Barca he's played immediately on the left, it is a forced move and not a natural one. He's not used to drifting inside from out. He's not looked comfortable at all.

If we were to sign Villa he'd have to play upfront alongside Torres and we'd have to adjust the team accordingly. IMO of course.

by **Sean** » Thu Jun 19, 2008 1:51 pm

I reckon it would be a mistake to sell Alonso. Noe that Riise has gone, I'd be happy to see Barry here as a first choice left back that can also provide midfield cover.

by **banana** » Thu Jun 19, 2008 4:05 pm

Did anyone watch Alonso last night. He was amazing. Completely tearing the greeks apart with brilliant passing. His positioning was top class and he was by far the best on the pitch last night. miles ahead of Iniesta and Fabregas.

Selling him = massive mistake forced upon Benitez by the owners

by **Ian Rush's Right foot** » Thu Jun 19, 2008 4:12 pm

banana wrote:Did anyone watch Alonso last night. He was amazing. Completely tearing the greeks apart with brilliant passing. His positioning was top class and he was by far the best on the pitch last night. miles ahead of Iniesta and Fabregas.

Selling him = massive mistake forced upon Benitez by the owners

i agree, he was top draw, hit the post, almost scored from the halfway line, and directed the game.

but tbh, it was only Greece

by **Richj** » Thu Jun 19, 2008 4:27 pm

Alonso was on another level last night, His passing is something else.Will be sad to see him go.

by **Lando_Griffin** » Thu Jun 19, 2008 5:01 pm

Ian Rush's Right foot wrote:
banana wrote:Did anyone watch Alonso last night. He was amazing. Completely tearing the greeks apart with brilliant passing. His positioning was top class and he was by far the best on the pitch last night. miles ahead of Iniesta and Fabregas.

Selling him = massive mistake forced upon Benitez by the owners

i agree, he was top draw, hit the post, almost scored from the halfway line, and directed the game.

but tbh, it was only Greece

You're right - it WAS only the reigning European Champions... :Oo:

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