Liverpool FC Forum

by **maypaxvobiscum** » Tue Dec 01, 2009 11:53 am

hello,

ive been reading lots of interviews by British people condemning the UK's decision to be part of the EU. i do recall not long ago there was a referendum in Ireland regarding the Treaty of Lisbon which apparently brings many changes to Europe such as:

1) permanent President who has a 2 year term
2) Foreign Minister elected too
3) UK has given up their powers on 40 policy areas.

what policy areas they are, i have no clue but isn't it a challenge to your sovereignty? the British are proud people, proud of their heritage and the way the EU is working, it seems destined for a federal state system similar to the Soviet Union which is bad news for everyone.

yes, you can argue that UK is still sovereign because of factors such as UK's decision not to convert to the Euro Dollar but it was optional anyway, and besides, Denmark hasnt converted either. also, it has lost it powers over former colonies such as Australia. you can argue that if that's the case, why do they have the Union Jack on their flags but im guessing its purely sentimental value and Canada is an example of a country who has a flag of their own identity.

overall, what is the opinion of you guys? is the EU really a bad thing? i heard Blair might be running for presidency but im unsure if he has dropped out of the race. do you guys feel invaded/disrespected that the UK are having to comply with the EU's laws? how would it feel to be UNDER an entity just like how India, Singapore, Canada, Rhodesia, etc were ?

by **Sabre** » Tue Dec 01, 2009 12:05 pm

Uk have to decide their things.

But my personal experience is that my country is old as fúck, with a culture that rivals anybody, and the EU does not imply we lose our pride or our sovereignity.

Yes, it implies some laws and rules, but I don't see that as sovereignity problem but some necessary rules to work together, just as we agree to other rules in the UN context.

by **maypaxvobiscum** » Tue Dec 01, 2009 12:35 pm

EU has an impact even on lifestyle Sabre... the case of Thoburn v Sunderland City Council regarding the use of the metric system.

furthermore, UK government can now be brought to court by their own citizen.

by **JoeTerp** » Tue Dec 01, 2009 4:40 pm

how about individual sovereignity?

:buttrock

by **maypaxvobiscum** » Wed Dec 02, 2009 3:20 am

that too is slightly given up through the social contract theory isnt it?

btw, what does that logo represent Joe?

by **JoeTerp** » Wed Dec 02, 2009 2:08 pm

I don't remember signing any social contract

the symbol represents Voluntaryism

by **account deleted by request** » Wed Dec 02, 2009 2:25 pm

Unlike most countries Britain had a commonwealth and enjoyed advantageous trading with countries all over the world.

We got cheap Lamb from New Zealand, butter and Beef from Australia, Oranges and Apples from South Africa, even advantagous trade agreements with the USA etc etc.

The immediate impact of joining the EEC was the end of those trade agreements with our friends, and the begining of "Rip off Britain" with our former enemies. Meat and Butter almost doubled in price overnight, our industry which relied to a large extent on the cheap raw materials from the old "Empire" and a ready market for our finished goods was decimated.

Can we turn the clock back..... no, so we have to live with what we have, but there is no doubt in my mind that it was a mistake to enter on such unfavourable terms. I would have rather seen an accomodation made, as was first offered to us back in the early sixties, rather than entering as willing mugs.

Bureaucracy gone mad.

by **maypaxvobiscum** » Thu Dec 03, 2009 7:23 am

JoeTerp wrote:I don't remember signing any social contract

the symbol represents Voluntaryism

there is nothing to sign Joe

Social contract describes a broad class of theories that try to explain the ways in which people form states and/or maintain social order. The notion of the social contract implies that the people give up some rights to a government or other authority in order to receive or maintain social order through the rule of law. It can also be thought of as an agreement by the governed on a set of rules by which they are governed.

by **maypaxvobiscum** » Thu Dec 03, 2009 7:38 am

s@int wrote:Unlike most countries Britain had a commonwealth and enjoyed advantageous trading with countries all over the world.

We got cheap Lamb from New Zealand, butter and Beef from Australia, Oranges and Apples from South Africa, even advantagous trade agreements with the USA etc etc.

The immediate impact of joining the EEC was the end of those trade agreements with our friends, and the begining of "Rip off Britain" with our former enemies. Meat and Butter almost doubled in price overnight, our industry which relied to a large extent on the cheap raw materials from the old "Empire" and a ready market for our finished goods was decimated.

Can we turn the clock back..... no, so we have to live with what we have, but there is no doubt in my mind that it was a mistake to enter on such unfavourable terms. I would have rather seen an accomodation made, as was first offered to us back in the early sixties, rather than entering as willing mugs.

Bureaucracy gone mad.

yeah here we go that's one of the effect i was hoping to hear

i also heard pubs are closing down because they have a certain price to which they have to sell their alcohol while supermarkets are allowed to sell it much much cheaper hence the closures..

by **woof woof !** » Thu Dec 03, 2009 8:33 am

maypaxvobiscum wrote:yeah here we go that's one of the effect i was hoping to hear
i also heard pubs are closing down because they have a certain price to which they have to sell their alcohol while supermarkets are allowed to sell it much much cheaper hence the closures..

In the last year three pubs within' my immediate area have closed. Don't have any stats Maypax but I think one of the major reasons for pub closures is the ban on smoking . Most regular drinkers are also smokers who don't want to spend the evening knocking back a few pints and all the time gaspin' for a cig. City cente pubs will usually survive but yer surburban pubs that rely on the custom of the locals will struggle. Certainly me and the missus, both smokers, don't nip out for a drink at our "local" anymore.

by **SouthCoastShankly** » Thu Dec 03, 2009 9:49 am

woof woof ! wrote:
maypaxvobiscum wrote:yeah here we go that's one of the effect i was hoping to hear
i also heard pubs are closing down because they have a certain price to which they have to sell their alcohol while supermarkets are allowed to sell it much much cheaper hence the closures..

In the last year three pubs within' my immediate area have closed. Don't have any stats Maypax but I think one of the major reasons for pub closures is the ban on smoking . Most regular drinkers are also smokers who don't want to spend the evening knocking back a few pints and all the time gaspin' for a cig. City cente pubs will usually survive but yer surburban pubs that rely on the custom of the locals will struggle. Certainly me and the missus, both smokers, don't nip out for a drink at our "local" anymore.

I can understand that you choose not to go for a drink at your local due to the smoking ban, that is personal preference. But the closing of pubs cannot be simply put down to the smoking ban. In fact before the global recession hit and the smoking ban was still in place, pub closures were hardly seen. The smoking ban was not a factor for most peoples drinking habits.

The real reason for pub closures in the recession. Punters have chosen to drink at home, leaving a pub visit to a minimum.

by **Sabre** » Thu Dec 03, 2009 10:03 am

woof woof ! wrote:
maypaxvobiscum wrote:yeah here we go that's one of the effect i was hoping to hear
i also heard pubs are closing down because they have a certain price to which they have to sell their alcohol while supermarkets are allowed to sell it much much cheaper hence the closures..

In the last year three pubs within' my immediate area have closed. Don't have any stats Maypax but I think one of the major reasons for pub closures is the ban on smoking . Most regular drinkers are also smokers who don't want to spend the evening knocking back a few pints and all the time gaspin' for a cig. City cente pubs will usually survive but yer surburban pubs that rely on the custom of the locals will struggle. Certainly me and the missus, both smokers, don't nip out for a drink at our "local" anymore.

But that's more related to the PC antismoker Brigade than the EU.

Our laws in that sense are not restrictive and in a good Rock'nRoll pub you still can smell the atmosphere of the smoke instead of the atmosphere of the sweat of the customers.

I don't think that all those rules are related to be part of the UE, it would be interesting to clarify which ones are.

by **made in UK** » Thu Dec 03, 2009 10:05 am

SouthCoastShankly wrote:
woof woof ! wrote:
maypaxvobiscum wrote:yeah here we go that's one of the effect i was hoping to hear
i also heard pubs are closing down because they have a certain price to which they have to sell their alcohol while supermarkets are allowed to sell it much much cheaper hence the closures..

In the last year three pubs within' my immediate area have closed. Don't have any stats Maypax but I think one of the major reasons for pub closures is the ban on smoking . Most regular drinkers are also smokers who don't want to spend the evening knocking back a few pints and all the time gaspin' for a cig. City cente pubs will usually survive but yer surburban pubs that rely on the custom of the locals will struggle. Certainly me and the missus, both smokers, don't nip out for a drink at our "local" anymore.

I can understand that you choose not to go for a drink at your local due to the smoking ban, that is personal preference. But the closing of pubs cannot be simply put down to the smoking ban. In fact before the global recession hit and the smoking ban was still in place, pub closures were hardly seen. The smoking ban was not a factor for most peoples drinking habits.

The real reason for pub closures in the recession. Punters have chosen to drink at home, leaving a pub visit to a minimum.

That sounds more feasible.

by **loopyliverpool** » Thu Dec 03, 2009 11:12 am

Pub closures are down to the recession and pub chains charging their Landlords excessive rents and making them buy certain beers which they also overcharge them for. As far as I am aware it has nothing to do with the EU. A Landlord on the radio the other day said he had his pub company come and clear him out of everything he possessed - his locals all clubbed together and gave him the necessarys to continue trading - cutlery, tables, glasses etc. He was left to buy his own beer and he found he was getting it for less than half the price he was paying to the pub chain company. There is no doubt that the recession is also a factor but greedy pub chains can also be cited!

by **maypaxvobiscum** » Thu Dec 03, 2009 1:22 pm

ahh i finally found that video that gave me the impression EU's directives are causing an indirect effect to the closure of pubs.. this is a video interview with some pub owner.

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