Liverpool FC Forum

by **big al** » Mon Nov 02, 2009 4:22 pm

I am old enough to remember the days when greedy directors gobbled up all the revenue generated by the biggest football clubs. Players were paid buttons and very often retired on a pitance. Liverpool was actually one of the first clubs to set up a pension scheme for its players to see them through their life after football. Today most will retire as millionaires. Things have changed but what I don't get is why so many fans think that they matter. Also why do fans think they can tell the fat cats at the top to spend their money to make the club better.

As far as I know ownership of a club does not mean you have to dig into your own pocket and buy players just to keep fans happy.

The whole Rafa Benitez out campaign is also falling into the trap of either blaming Rafa for his tactics or blaming the Yanks for not forking out their money.

Both of these have some degree of truth but fans have no rights unlike the big Spanish clubs EPL fans are powerless.

So lets be honest about this, If fans want to change anything at a club the only way is not to go to games.

We all know that this is impossible no true fan will ever do that.

So in the end its just about hoping that things will change because fan power died a long time ago.

Expecting the yanks to put their money in is unrealistic and I think expecting Liverpool to rush out and compete with Chelsea and Man U and now even Arsenal is crazy. This means that Rafa is under grandiose expectations.

Dominating history gives you know right to dominate the future, just look at the romans.

If we finish top four is good enough in the real world not the media hyped world or the living in the past world.

Until the new stadium is build and the money starts running in LFC need to cut its cloth accordingly.

As for Rafa he's perhaps the victim or media hype but I have to say he sometimes brings it on himself, perhaps we all do and perhaps we need Liverpool to be something its not possible to be (YET).

by **fergieisawhiskeynosedtw@t** » Mon Nov 02, 2009 4:30 pm

and your point is? :upside:

by **big al** » Mon Nov 02, 2009 4:41 pm

Did'nt you get it then?

by **Effes** » Mon Nov 02, 2009 4:49 pm

big al wrote:Dominating history gives you know right to dominate the future, just look at the romans.

If we finish top four is good enough in the real world not the media hyped world or the living in the past world.

Great Expectations eh al?

I must admit; I don't know what to expect at the end of the day.

Honestly.

I started going the game in the early 80's - innocently expecting either to win the league or at least come 2nd.
Add at least one Cup win (any cup, even League Cup) - and that was your usual season in that decade.

The thing is - most arguments these days seem to be what we should expect.
That is - arguing how much we've spent according to other clubs, what Rafa has achieved in his first
five years compared to other managers etc, etc.

What I don't like, is we play a B team away to Arsenal in the Carling Cup when I think the first team would have won there.

I don't like the taking off players like Benayoun away to Fulham.

I just think people are too quick to accept such "policies".

I think the fans would have rather liked a Carling Cup Final - we haven't been to the new Wembley yet.

What an era the Cardiff years were eh?

3 of those finals were League Cup finals - so what?!
The fans had a weekend on the ale, and a Cup Final to go to.
It was happy times.

by **big al** » Mon Nov 02, 2009 5:04 pm

Effes I agree with you whole heartedly and that is partly my point. My own minimun expectation would be to win the Carling Cup. Many may call it a Mickey Mouse cup but I think it matters, beating Arsenal would have kept the momentum from the Man U game. The expectations we have though are unimportant. I have never been disappointed in a Liverpool team or manager who give it their all and was beat. I feel that today I am cheated before a game kicks off because it seems each game has a different priority. For me each competitive game is a priority. Things have changed, you gotta ask is it about football or is it about Money, is it about trophies or is it about egos. My point in this post is to emphasise how powerless we really are.

by **Effes** » Mon Nov 02, 2009 5:21 pm

It's about money.

Champs League = Money. Carling Cup = A Trophy only.

Therefore, we play the B team away to Arsenal, irrespective of what the fans think.

Rafa got dog's abuse away to Burnley, so answered with the FA Cup the following year.
Look what can happen when you actually "go for it" in a competition.

I'm not sure Rafa is too bothered about the FA Cup now either - they don't bother
with the Copa Del Rey in Spain.

Surely the fans who travelled from Liverpool to London to see that Arsenal game feel cheated
more than anyone ?

by **big al** » Mon Nov 02, 2009 5:23 pm

6000 of them

by **metalhead** » Mon Nov 02, 2009 9:50 pm

big al wrote:Until the new stadium is build and the money starts running in LFC need to cut its cloth accordingly.

I've been saying that in the past, regardless of who takes over, a new stadium must be build to compete with the likes of Man utd and Arsenal. Without that, we will never go up a level.

by **big al** » Tue Nov 03, 2009 4:15 pm

I'd also like to know whose really to blame at liverpool I suspect that Rafa isnt picking the team. I think sammy Lee is telling him who to pick. Sammys getting it from the head steward. I think the head Steward is getting the team selection from the Kit man who in turn is getting it from the Groundsman I think he's told who to pick by his wife Katka. Katka a real looker back in Moscow they call her the Russian doll.

by **bunglemark2** » Tue Nov 03, 2009 4:19 pm

big al wrote:I'd also like to know whose really to blame at liverpool I suspect that Rafa isnt picking the team. I think sammy Lee is telling him who to pick. Sammys getting it from the head stewart. I think the head Stewart is getting the team selection from the Kit man who in turn is getting it from the Groundsman I think he's told who to pick by his wife Katka. Katka a real looker back in Moscow they call her the Russian doll.

Who's this guy "Stewart" ?

I'd really like to meet Stewart and give Stewart a piece of my mind....

by **big al** » Tue Nov 03, 2009 4:28 pm

Now your post is just silly.

by **supersub** » Tue Nov 03, 2009 8:06 pm

big al wrote:I'd also like to know whose really to blame at liverpool I suspect that Rafa isnt picking the team. I think sammy Lee is telling him who to pick. Sammys getting it from the head steward. I think the head Steward is getting the team selection from the Kit man who in turn is getting it from the Groundsman I think he's told who to pick by his wife Katka. Katka a real looker back in Moscow they call her the Russian doll.

I say delete the russian doll :nod

by **Sabre** » Tue Nov 03, 2009 11:02 pm

Hmmm, I don't agree much of the post but it's a good post, with genuine thoughts.

This season is being a football nightmare. But I personally can't downgrade the club expectations after the progress we saw the last four years, just because we have alligned some mistakes of Rafa and bad luck. I can't say now that the objective is not winning the league.

I'm pro Rafa, but I think this season he put a lot of confidence in some players thinking it was the time they delivered the investment made on them, and it didn't work out. It's a Rafa mistake, and also lots of bad luck in form of injuries.

But I think that even if the owners are not helping and are even destroying the club, we still have a great environment to develop football. Liverpool have Melwood, Liverpool have a squad that has been growing and right now should be doing definitely better, Liverpool have the best crowd of Europe, and Liverpool have more resources than most clubs in England. More than enough ingredients to make a good dish. Liverpool are a top club and the expectations should be high.

I trust Rafa but he must keep Liverpool at this expectations.

Both of these have some degree of truth but fans have no rights unlike the big Spanish clubs EPL fans are powerless.

So lets be honest about this, If fans want to change anything at a club the only way is not to go to games.

We all know that this is impossible no true fan will ever do that.

I disagree the Spanish fans are more protected, and I disagree that the kind of job SOS is doing is powerless.

We're trying to copy SOS concept in a local club here Al (and in fact we'll ask them advice soon), because we see the service they provide to LIverpool fans is huge and a protection we don't have here.

They talk about holding into account whoever owns the club and they even manage to get answers directly from a top club man like Purslow. That pressure, that info, that "holding into account" is something we dream of in Spain, where the board men do their corruption stuff without punnishment, with the silence of the press, and with no SOS-ish organization to keep them under control.

So yes, SOS might have not driven out the Americans yet. True, but they've achieved a lot of things so far. And thus, I can't say they're powerless.

by **made in UK** » Wed Nov 04, 2009 9:21 am

big al wrote:I am old enough to remember the days when greedy directors gobbled up all the revenue generated by the biggest football clubs. Players were paid buttons and very often retired on a pitance. Liverpool was actually one of the first clubs to set up a pension scheme for its players to see them through their life after football. Today most will retire as millionaires. Things have changed but what I don't get is why so many fans think that they matter. Also why do fans think they can tell the fat cats at the top to spend their money to make the club better.

As far as I know ownership of a club does not mean you have to dig into your own pocket and buy players just to keep fans happy.

The whole Rafa Benitez out campaign is also falling into the trap of either blaming Rafa for his tactics or blaming the Yanks for not forking out their money.

Both of these have some degree of truth but fans have no rights unlike the big Spanish clubs EPL fans are powerless.

So lets be honest about this, If fans want to change anything at a club the only way is not to go to games.

We all know that this is impossible no true fan will ever do that.

So in the end its just about hoping that things will change because fan power died a long time ago.

Expecting the yanks to put their money in is unrealistic and I think expecting Liverpool to rush out and compete with Chelsea and Man U and now even Arsenal is crazy. This means that Rafa is under grandiose expectations.

Dominating history gives you know right to dominate the future, just look at the romans.

If we finish top four is good enough in the real world not the media hyped world or the living in the past world.

Until the new stadium is build and the money starts running in LFC need to cut its cloth accordingly.

As for Rafa he's perhaps the victim or media hype but I have to say he sometimes brings it on himself, perhaps we all do and perhaps we need Liverpool to be something its not possible to be (YET).

Good post.

by **lakes10** » Wed Nov 04, 2009 11:06 am

another 20 years?

I was talking to an old west ham player on monday night and what he was saying hit home a bit, the way things are going for liverpool if not fixed by the end of this football year, could see all our big named players go.

what he said to me was that there is no player at our club that would stay if they knew there was no chance of winning anything, i did not go along with that untill he told me about his old days and why he moved from club to club and why other layers moved, yes some of it is now to do with money but thats not what most are looking from the game, they are looking to win even more so if you are a old player.

in his view we are not so big that we could not go down next year if things are not fix and players left.

he said 20 yesr is too long for a club like liverpool to go without winning the big one and a few more years without doing so there might be no turning back with the new money and better players going to other clubs, he see's West Ham with new money coming in being able to over take a lot of other teams in the next few years and man city knocking out liverpool of the top 4, he said "do you know how hard it is for a team to get back to the top once they are outside the top 4, why to you think the top 4 have not changed for years"

he did not feel that Rafa was the wrong man but did feel that some of the things he has done has not helped the club.
i asked him are the owners to blame, he said only in part, it started a long time ago when new money was taken by other clubs and Liverpool sat still

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