Liverpool FC Forum

by **bigmick** » Thu Oct 29, 2009 3:52 am

Sorry Ramsey :blush:

You know what I mean anyway

He looked like a good player the lad, although the dogs have been barking for him for a long time. I liked the kid who played alongside him too, Eastwood or something. Both kids are under 20 I should think and will make good players.

by **Ben Patrick** » Thu Oct 29, 2009 3:55 am

bigmick wrote:Sorry Ramsey You know what I mean anyway He looked like a good player the lad, although the dogs have been barking for him for a long time. I liked the kid who played alongside him too, Eastwood or something. Both kids are under 20 I should think and will make good players.

they both looked good mick but to be fair we held our own.
And Ramsey isnt a product of their acadamy - he cost about 5 million so fair do's he will be class.
Thought some players stepped up tonight, Degen, especially.

by **JoeTerp** » Thu Oct 29, 2009 4:35 am

Nasri cost them about 12 million

by **JoeTerp** » Thu Oct 29, 2009 4:39 am

they also didn't play only kids, they had some experienced defenders. I thought their RB was pretty good.

Also, Rafa has only recently overhauled the academy set up, while Whenger has had the better part of a decade to bring through his kids, plus once you get the reputation of developing and playing a few youngsters, I would imagine it makes recruiting other talented youngsters much easier.

by **bigmick** » Thu Oct 29, 2009 4:42 am

There's no shame when our kids aren't as good as theirs. As I said earlier, if they had a Champions League for kids and blokes who you've never heard of, they'd p!ss it every year.

by **Emerald Red** » Thu Oct 29, 2009 7:31 am

Effes wrote:
Emerald Red wrote:Years ago this competition held more importance. Not so today. Times change. Am I bothered? 10 years ago, maybe, but not today. Let's be honest, who ever remembers the winners of this in the past couple of seasons? I barely remembered us getting to the final of it a few years ago and losing to a SG OG against Chelsea.

Without sounding "elitist" or descriminatory - but that post smacks of someone who just doesn't "get it"

The fans deserve a day out at Wembley, irrespective of the so-called "prestige" of the competition.

It's not a question of remebering who won a cup years ago.

One of my best days/nights was the 2001 Carling Cup final - me and my mates still talk about that legendary weekend today.

No, it's understandable. I know that we as a club always did treat every competition as serious as the rest, and if it was there to be won, we'd try. Understandable sentiment with the fan's getting the day to go to the big venue as well. But these days I just feel that we really just should concentrate on the bigger prizes more. Picking up a league cup is always a bonus, but it's hardly a championship, or a Big Ears, or even a FA Cup, is it? If going out of the competition potentially means that we hypothetically pick up an extra 3 points in the league, I'd take it.

by **The_Rock** » Thu Oct 29, 2009 7:43 am

Its no disgrace losing to Arsenal's youngsters. Every other team's 2nd stringers will be thrashed by them.

I didn't see the game....from what i read, we created quite a few chances and didn't look to be "over-run" by them. Thats enough for me considering the team we put out had voronin, plessis, degen, the greek guy we probabily shouldn't have bought and.......er kuyt

So lets just concentrate on the league games.... That should be our 1st priority. Can't afford any more slip ups.

by **account deleted by request** » Thu Oct 29, 2009 7:45 am

Emerald Red wrote:
Effes wrote:
Emerald Red wrote:Years ago this competition held more importance. Not so today. Times change. Am I bothered? 10 years ago, maybe, but not today. Let's be honest, who ever remembers the winners of this in the past couple of seasons? I barely remembered us getting to the final of it a few years ago and losing to a SG OG against Chelsea.

Without sounding "elitist" or descriminatory - but that post smacks of someone who just doesn't "get it"

The fans deserve a day out at Wembley, irrespective of the so-called "prestige" of the competition.

It's not a question of remebering who won a cup years ago.

One of my best days/nights was the 2001 Carling Cup final - me and my mates still talk about that legendary weekend today.

No, it's understandable. I know that we as a club always did treat every competition as serious as the rest, and if it was there to be won, we'd try. Understandable sentiment with the fan's getting the day to go to the big venue as well. But these days I just feel that we really just should concentrate on the bigger prizes more. Picking up a league cup is always a bonus, but it's hardly a championship, or a Big Ears, or even a FA Cup, is it? If going out of the competition potentially means that we hypothetically pick up an extra 3 points in the league, I'd take it.

I understand your point of view Emerald but at the moment I would rather have a cup than "a meaningless three points". Obviously if the three points meant we would win the league I would prefer that , but if it meant the difference between coming second, or third with a cup, I would take 3rd and a cup. And yes I would gamble on losing the three points for the sake of a cup this year.

Besides which I think a trophy would take some of the pressure off Rafa AND the team. I am sure some of the players would like a big day out (as well as the fans). Torres is in his third season with us and hasn't had a glimpse of a medal yet!

Liverpool needs to win something this season and if we can't win "one of the big ones" a little one would have been nice.

by **Owzat** » Thu Oct 29, 2009 7:56 am

DAV wrote:I am actually bothered, we put up a good display. So no shame on the performance. I am one who believes if you enter a competition then its serious. Agreed other competitions are more important, but their are only so many cups to win in England and this is one.(and we aint won much as of late) The Finals i went to in 80s were important. And this years final will be important to both the winners and losers, i think its a shame we wont be at wembley for this.
I also think its a shame so many people don't care about this cup anymore.

We should be bothered, exiting the competition before the QFs AGAIN, it exposes our squad strength which is a key factor in our league and Champions League campaigns, and does anyone believe it doesn't bother anyone - managers, players etc?

Sure we could write it off, but our domestic cup campaigns have ended thus in the last three seasons plus this :

League Cup : 06/07 QF, 07/08 QF, 08/09 R4, 09/10 R4
FA Cup : 06/07 R3, 07/08 R5, 08/09 R5, 09/10 TBD

A couple of QFs might not seem so bad, but it is only three rounds in which is as many rounds as we've lasted in the domestic cups since we won one. Last night was our FIFTIETH domestic defeat, it may not bother anyone that we've gone out but perhaps it should. Five defeats in our last six games, since scoring six against Hull we've scored just four in six games.

09/10

Premiership : Lost 40.00%
League Cup : Lost 50.00%
Champions League : Lost 66.67%

Hardly impressive, winning 8/15 but losing 7/15. Defeat away to Fulham and we'll have lost as many as we've won. Nah, there's no 'crisis', as long as we all pretend that beating the mancs makes up for our predicament (being six points off the league leaders already and not affording to lose another CL game or face a likely Champions League exit)

Perhaps we should have a "Premiership" thread, "anyone bothered?". After all Rafa has an affinity for the Champions League so we could just 'believe' we'll win that and save our first league title in 20 years for another season. I'd be a lot less bothered by this defeat if it didn't accompany six others and we're in deep doodoo, on the brink of exit if not already out of it in all three competitions so far. Yes we could still win the league, but it's looking highly unlikely given our current form, four losses already and a six point deficit. It would be a great fightback if we managed it, but before anyone compares it with past history, say last season the mancs fighting back, consider they were chasing a team that had not won the Premiership, had Ronaldo in their side and won more games in a row than we've managed in any of the past five seasons - and 21 wins out of their last 25 games.

by **account deleted by request** » Thu Oct 29, 2009 8:00 am

spot on Owzat

by **akumaface** » Thu Oct 29, 2009 10:45 am

I'm bothered everytime we lose regardless of preseason, CC, Euro or the league. We play to win and it is not correct to have the players think it is ok to lose the game since this cup is not our priority blah blah blah. We must have the correct mentality.

by **Effes** » Thu Oct 29, 2009 10:46 am

Anyone know the average age of the two starting teams last night?

BBC 5 live were leading the sports bulletin with "Rafa refuses to let his teams confidence be
affected, after losing to Arsenal's team of youngsters"

My immediate response was to tell the radio to feck off - that was our B side too!

by **Ben Patrick** » Thu Oct 29, 2009 12:03 pm

agree with you saint...i was watchin it with me son, who is onl 11 granted, but he was asking why we dont take the competition more seriously.
Especially as we havent even played at the new wembley yet or been in a final for a few years.

I can see logic behind valuing other competitions higher but its not like we are winning them regulaly now is it.
I was at the birmingham final in 01 and the united one in 03 and they were brilliant weekends.

One thing i will say is our draws in recent years have been really tough, arsenal away this year, spurs away last year and if i am niot mistaken chelsea away the year before ?

Not easy at all, especially without full first team players being fielded.

by **stmichael** » Thu Oct 29, 2009 12:14 pm

I'm not overly-disappointed as I thought we gave a good account of ourselves.

You have to say we've been unlucky with the draws in the competition down the years anyway. In the last five years we've gone out to chelsea (twice), arsenal (twice) and tottenham. Certainly chelsea and spurs play far astronger sides in this competition than us every year anyway.

Compare this to United who's game at Barnsley was their first away tie in the competition since 2006. In that time they've played teams such as the mighty QPR, Coventry, Wolves and Blackburn. Chelsea pretty much the same.

by **Sir Roger** » Thu Oct 29, 2009 7:47 pm

Owzat wrote:
DAV wrote:I am actually bothered, we put up a good display. So no shame on the performance. I am one who believes if you enter a competition then its serious. Agreed other competitions are more important, but their are only so many cups to win in England and this is one.(and we aint won much as of late) The Finals i went to in 80s were important. And this years final will be important to both the winners and losers, i think its a shame we wont be at wembley for this.
I also think its a shame so many people don't care about this cup anymore.

We should be bothered, exiting the competition before the QFs AGAIN, it exposes our squad strength which is a key factor in our league and Champions League campaigns, and does anyone believe it doesn't bother anyone - managers, players etc?

Sure we could write it off, but our domestic cup campaigns have ended thus in the last three seasons plus this :

League Cup : 06/07 QF, 07/08 QF, 08/09 R4, 09/10 R4
FA Cup : 06/07 R3, 07/08 R5, 08/09 R5, 09/10 TBD

A couple of QFs might not seem so bad, but it is only three rounds in which is as many rounds as we've lasted in the domestic cups since we won one. Last night was our FIFTIETH domestic defeat, it may not bother anyone that we've gone out but perhaps it should. Five defeats in our last six games, since scoring six against Hull we've scored just four in six games.

09/10

Premiership : Lost 40.00%
League Cup : Lost 50.00%
Champions League : Lost 66.67%

Hardly impressive, winning 8/15 but losing 7/15. Defeat away to Fulham and we'll have lost as many as we've won. Nah, there's no 'crisis', as long as we all pretend that beating the mancs makes up for our predicament (being six points off the league leaders already and not affording to lose another CL game or face a likely Champions League exit)

Perhaps we should have a "Premiership" thread, "anyone bothered?". After all Rafa has an affinity for the Champions League so we could just 'believe' we'll win that and save our first league title in 20 years for another season. I'd be a lot less bothered by this defeat if it didn't accompany six others and we're in deep doodoo, on the brink of exit if not already out of it in all three competitions so far. Yes we could still win the league, but it's looking highly unlikely given our current form, four losses already and a six point deficit. It would be a great fightback if we managed it, but before anyone compares it with past history, say last season the mancs fighting back, consider they were chasing a team that had not won the Premiership, had Ronaldo in their side and won more games in a row than we've managed in any of the past five seasons - and 21 wins out of their last 25 games.

I am in two minds over whether Im bothered or not
Firstly, as has been said, part of me is not interested in this competition at all. I see it as a distraction to the more important things like the PL and the CL. But saying that I have been somewhat persuaded to think that way because of our previous attempts. I do agree we should be trying to win everything, but I have accepted the fact that with the squad we have and the priorities being what they are, we cant and wont.
I think with some passion, ambition and the will to win shown by ALL the team last night we could have easily been through to the next round. Unfortunately the rot seems to run deep in the club with regards to the once sought after "league cup"

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