Liverpool FC Forum

by **JBG** » Thu Sep 09, 2004 9:35 am

Man UTD's midfield is not as strong as it was but I completely disagree with your assessment of our midfield A.B.

Ours might look good on paper but then Diouff (twice African player of the year, star of African Nations Cup 2002 and one of the stars of 2002 WC), Diao, Cheyrou, Ziege, Heskey, Finnan etc all looked great on paper when Houllier bought them.

How do we know Alonso, Garcia and Nunez won't be huge flops? We don't.

The last 15 years has taught Liverpool fans a harsh lesson in football: transfer values and reputations mean absolutely nothing and until we see a few months of our midfield operating together in a consistant and cohesive fashion our midfield amounts to absolutely zero at the moment. Alonso and Garcia have only played one match (in which our undoubted best player Steven Gerrard was played out of position) and Nunez hasn't featured at all.

They could amount to a decent midfield but no football game or no trophy was won on paper. Greece look poor-ish on paper but they were extremely well organised and played as a cohesive unit and won the European Championships.

With respect, both you and the Man UTD fan are wrong (as are all the others) who say stuff like: Smith, RVN, Rooney and Saha=bets strikeforce in the world or Djemba Djemba, Giggs, Scholes and Ronaldo are not a great midfield (anyway, Keane would be playing there).

Football isn't as simple as that.

Sometimes I think a lot of people here on this forum either didn't follow Liverpool during the Graeme Souness days or have forgotten about them. Souness bought what he saw as the supposed best available talent in England (at that time Liverpool were the major power in the transfer market) and his signings, on paper, looked excellent, and even when the team struggled, Souness still claimed we were the best "on paper" and blamed the poor form on injuries and settling in problems of new players. He was fooling himself and a lot of fans.

Alonso has a very good pedigree in Spain but Garcia and Nunez are unknown quantities, indeed Nunez played less for Madrid than Luke Chadwick played for Man UTD. I hope they'll all work out but there's no guarantee.

by **who the hell is diarra** » Thu Sep 09, 2004 9:51 am

Uuuuurrrgh you mentioned Souness JBG i gotta go n lie down now

by **106-1093504160** » Thu Sep 09, 2004 10:03 am

jbg, can u ban guests from posting so we only know who we are dealing with?

by **JBG** » Thu Sep 09, 2004 11:28 am

I cannot ban anyone, even guests.

The webmaster, LFC, is the only person who can ban members, and banning is an absolute last resort.

Even Man UTD fans can come here and post their opinion, but in fairness that last Manc was an absolute non starter with his insulting username.

by **maximus** » Thu Sep 09, 2004 11:56 am

I think JBG has hit the ail on the head, the our midfield is better than yours debate is a non - starter. this is just playground stuff you used to argue when , jeez..........even my nephew (7 yrs old - a manufactured media/press Chelsea 'supporter') informed me that Chelsea are better than Liverpool because we are in the bottom half of the EPL!!! he also went onto tell me that Chelsea are a bigger club than Liverpool because they have more money!! Hes too young to understand I supposse (but not too young for a clip round the ear though!!)

The facts are history does not lie and Manure have been the most successful side in the EPL since its inception, and they have still got the same manager, who lets be far is the nucleas of the club, his transfer dealings (overall) are commendable.

Rafa is a good coach, there is no doubt about that, 2 la liga titles in 3 years speak for themselves, however he is plying his trade in a different country with different ways and culture, and Rafa, like all his signings will have to adapt, and that will take time.

To say that Nunez is a class player is a spurious statment! We have not even seen the guy train ffs!!! and as for Garcia, seems like a bit of a journeyman on paper.............but again time will tell.

by **JBG** » Thu Sep 09, 2004 12:54 pm

Exactly Max, exactly.

I'm a sceptical fan by nature and I think I have every right to be sceptical after having all my hopes dashed by the Souness, Evans and Houllier days.

I (and many others) learned the very harsh lesson that you cannot judge a player one way or another until he gets a decent chance to prove himself.

By the same token you cannot say that just because a player played for a certain club he's automatically brilliant.

I pride myself on watching a hell of a lot of football, and as well as the English game I try to see as much European stuff I can in satellite. I know a reasonable amount about the Spanish game and I never heard of Nunez before he came here, had only a vague awareness of who Garcia was, and while I knew of Alonso and had seen highlights of him play last season and the year before, much of what I knew about him emanated from good reports from other sources and not my own actual first hand experience.

I challenge any Liverpool fan to say that they have followed Garcia, Nunez and Alonso's (as well as Josemi's) careers before they came here and just because Nunez played for Madrid ("played" is an interesting interpretation of his contribution to Madrid's first team) and Garcia played for Barcelona (ditto) doesn't automatically mean they're brilliant.

I mean, Man UTD are in roughly the same league as Madrid yet just because Luke Chadwick played for them you wouldn't automatically say "he's great coz he played for Man UTD".

The point is we simply don't know how good or how bad they'll be: Garcia could be the new Pires or he could be the new Cheyrou.

We just don't know.

I'm not having a go A.B. but people who say Gerrard+Alonso+Garcia+Nunez=great midfield obviously learned nothing from the last 15 years at Liverpool and that kind of talk is more suited to the junior playground rather than serious football talk.

by **A.B.** » Thu Sep 09, 2004 1:00 pm

I am confident in Rafa and the players that he has bought. I've seen what Garcia and Alonso can do in Spain and I am sure that they can do the same for Liverpool, otherwise Rafa wouldn't had bought them. La Liga and Premiership are in some ways the same as far as competion goes, and I think the players in our midfield will do us good this year, whether you believe it or not.

The past is the past, Houllier brought players who can play in France but the French don't have a strong league to be honest, they never had and never will. Compare the La Liga and Championet and there is a huge difference in the quality of the players.

I did not say that Nunez is a world class player but he has talent, some didn't believe that Josemi would be a good signed yet he has played great thus far.

If the Manchester fans can praise thier players then so will I, I am getting tired of their nonsence.

by **A.B.** » Thu Sep 09, 2004 1:03 pm

Oh yes I forgot to say that I never said that our midfield was the best or whatever, I simply stated that our midfield is better than Manchester Utds IN MY OPINION. I've seen all the games in the Premiership so far,Manchester's midfield hasn't looked aggressive and there is no execuse for them because none of their midfielders were injured during the four games they played.

When did I say that Smith,Nistelrooy and Saha were the best strike force? The partenrship between Smith and Saha is just as poor as Cisse's and Baros. Just as we need time for our strikers to gel, Smith and Rooney have to do the same.

by **maximus** » Thu Sep 09, 2004 1:18 pm

A.B. wrote:I did not say that Nunez is a world class player but he has talent

How do you know that, every pro footballer has varying degrees of talent, otherwise they would not be pro footballers

Have you followed his carreer??

That means nothing, sorry mate, you are getting carried away

by **A.B.** » Thu Sep 09, 2004 1:24 pm

I bet you were the same one who said that Josemi might suck when we signed him, and now you are probably praising him and will do the same with the rest of our players who you or others have critisized in the past.

Rafa has shown that he has an eye for talent. If you can not see that by now, then you might have a problem.

I have faith in the players, under Houllier players such as Biscan were horrible because they played in the position they shouldn't had.

So according to your statement every player has talent, I am not sure that the rest of the Liverpool fans would agree with that because some don't think that players such as Biscan have any talent.

by **106-1093504160** » Thu Sep 09, 2004 1:24 pm

does anyone remember Ali Dia who played pro football for southampton but only one game. He was registered as a pro football player, but in fact had got forged papers saying this, and southampton were sucked in. So its fair to say that not all pro footballers have TALENT, or even World CLASS. This should mean something to someone.

by **A.B.** » Thu Sep 09, 2004 1:29 pm

judge wrote:does anyone remember Ali Dia who played pro football for southampton but only one game. He was registered as a pro football player, but in fact had got forged papers saying this, and southampton were sucked in. So its fair to say that not all pro footballers have TALENT, or even World CLASS. This should mean something to someone.

Mind teling that to maximus.

You don't have to agree with me about Alonso,Garcia,and Nunez doing some good for Liverpool this season but please don't be a hypocrite 3-5 games from now and say "I knew that Alonso was going to do us good from the start". That has happened in the past.

Either you have faith in the players or you don't, it can't be both. If you all can wait 15 years, then you can wait this year or the following year for the Premiership title.

by **106-1093504160** » Thu Sep 09, 2004 1:31 pm

i love liverpool, so it dont matter who plays as long they WIN

by **A.B.** » Thu Sep 09, 2004 1:33 pm

"i love liverpool, so it dont matter who plays as long they WIN "

You can't expect us always to win, its football. Sometimes you win and sometimes you don't.

by **Ciggy** » Thu Sep 09, 2004 1:35 pm

judge wrote:i love liverpool, so it dont matter who plays as long they WIN

so do I alan so do I :love:

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