Liverpool FC Forum

by **taff** » Tue Jan 20, 2009 4:54 pm

Ok Lucas for Sg in the Derby last season changed the game, not robotic but sussed out the need for it and he got slated even after we beat Everton. Go figure that.

Keane is not fit enough for his role neither is Riera but they are going to improve. We play a hard pressing game and like it or not Kuyt does that well.

I still think that Rafa gets it in the neck regardless of other circumstances

by **Leonmc0708** » Tue Jan 20, 2009 5:00 pm

tonyeh wrote:Rafa's sub are rubbish 90% of the time.

Like the following:

Hamman in Istanbul ?

El Zhar against Boro - at one nil down with 7 minutes to go - El Zhar came on and made one and was involved in another.

Babel - against United - came on and scored the winner.

Benayound and El Zhar on against Wigan - whilst losing 2-1. went on to win it 3-2.

Benayoun against Pompey - he came on with 20 left at nil nil, and his run and shot was deflected for the corner that won us the penalty.

by **taff** » Tue Jan 20, 2009 5:05 pm

Thanks Leon for those facts. If it kicked off Id be happy to see you next to me even if I was concerned about catching a stray one off you

by **Thingy** » Tue Jan 20, 2009 5:09 pm

I think youd be a little bit foolish to think Keane will be here next season. I hoped he would be a success but its not happening for him. I think he will be sold for a little over half the price we got him for, and we will be racking our brains out as to what striker Rafa will go for in the summer.

by **SupitsJonF** » Tue Jan 20, 2009 5:20 pm

I dont buy the whole because Rafa rotates him garbage. If thats truly why he went from being a great player at Tottenham to what he is now he isn't a great professional. This is their professional job, and if he cant deal with paying the consequence for his performances or just playing the role as a sub he thinks he is bigger than he is. Masch is world class in his position, do we see Masch becoming a broken man now? Do we see him running up and down the sideline on his own?

Rafa may of played some part in Keanes game, but he has to be weak mentally then to really make him play like this. I think in the Euro Torres was being taken off at odd times and he was mad that he didnt play a full 90, but instead of missing a sitter he scores the winning goal in the tournament. Fought for the spot.

by **tonyeh** » Tue Jan 20, 2009 5:32 pm

Leonmc0708 wrote:
tonyeh wrote:Rafa's sub are rubbish 90% of the time.

Like the following:

Hamman in Istanbul ?

El Zhar against Boro - at one nil down with 7 minutes to go - El Zhar came on and made one and was involved in another.

Babel - against United - came on and scored the winner.

Benayound and El Zhar on against Wigan - whilst losing 2-1. went on to win it 3-2.

Benayoun against Pompey - he came on with 20 left at nil nil, and his run and shot was deflected for the corner that won us the penalty.

Yeh, rubbish 90% of the time.

by **lakes10** » Tue Jan 20, 2009 5:55 pm

Leonmc0708 wrote:
tonyeh wrote:Rafa's sub are rubbish 90% of the time.

Like the following:

Hamman in Istanbul ?

El Zhar against Boro - at one nil down with 7 minutes to go - El Zhar came on and made one and was involved in another.

Babel - against United - came on and scored the winner.

Benayound and El Zhar on against Wigan - whilst losing 2-1. went on to win it 3-2.

Benayoun against Pompey - he came on with 20 left at nil nil, and his run and shot was deflected for the corner that won us the penalty.

yep he has made some good subs, but its also down to who he has on the bench.

Its not just Rafa thats get this wrong, you see it all the time in football, a team is 1 or 2 nill up and thay take their strikers off only to see the other team get a goal in the 85 min and to get a draw in the 90 min. thats football.

so i always say keep them on if they are fit unless we are 3-0 up.

the other side to that if we are 0-1 down then a sub can change the face of the game as you have just stated.

by **Mikz** » Tue Jan 20, 2009 5:59 pm

I wont deny Keane has had a few howlers..but his confidence is shot to pieces. Given any kind of decent service he will come good. We have all seen him before, hes nothing to prove in the premiership and every man woman and child knows hes a cracking player, that scored goals for all his previous clubs and country.
The Nigel Cloughs, Morientes's Collymores Ciises Bellamys (i could go on lol ) all flopped but Keanes a battler and will come good given time .
:nod

by **Raj_Xedos** » Tue Jan 20, 2009 7:00 pm

Mikz wrote:I wont deny Keane has had a few howlers..but his confidence is shot to pieces. Given any kind of decent service he will come good. We have all seen him before, hes nothing to prove in the premiership and every man woman and child knows hes a cracking player, that scored goals for all his previous clubs and country.
The Nigel Cloughs, Morientes's Collymores Ciises Bellamys (i could go on lol ) all flopped but Keanes a battler and will come good given time .

well said mikz......

keano is a top player but can i magine how he feels everytime a substition board comes up.

He had service against west brom, look what he did....everytime he gets the service he delivers.......when his confidence is high......

by **GYBS** » Tue Jan 20, 2009 7:03 pm

will see how keane does come the ned of the season - he is still a decent player - not worh 20 mil but still avery good prem striker .

by **SupitsJonF** » Tue Jan 20, 2009 7:07 pm

Was his confidence not low for the Arsenal game? And look at that goal. Before that he didnt play a part in the Hull at home draw and the 3-1 beating of Blackburn, but he still scored a :censored:

class goal at Arsenal.

Rafa is probably only 10-15% of the problem, all the rest is in the strikers head and needs to be held accountable for it.

by **The Good Yank** » Tue Jan 20, 2009 7:23 pm

SupitsJonF wrote:Was his confidence not low for the Arsenal game? And look at that goal. Before that he didnt play a part in the Hull at home draw and the 3-1 beating of Blackburn, but he still scored a class goal at Arsenal.

Rafa is probably only 10-15% of the problem, all the rest is in the strikers head and needs to be held accountable for it.

I agree, Robbie Keane is is a big boy, he doesn't need the blame for his poor performances laid at the feet of the manager. I think he's still not adjusted to playing within a new system. Remember early in the season where he would be pointing to where he wanted the ball, or make a cut one way or the other just as a pass was about to be made in the opposite direction?

He's still doing far too much of that for my liking with the amount of games he has played one would think he'd have done a better job of adjusting by now.

by **Cool Hand Luke** » Tue Jan 20, 2009 8:35 pm

A £20 million, 28 year old man, who has vast experience of the Premiership and who clearly thinks the world of himself has lost complete confidence in himself because, not for the first time in his career, he has been dropped?

Some people need to get a grip.

So what if he got dropped/rested for the Newcastle game. He came back against Preston and was awful.

Stop making excuses for him just because he is a British player who has done well for a couple of second rate Premiership clubs.

by ***_Ruthless_*** » Tue Jan 20, 2009 8:54 pm

Keane is a proven goal scorer at top level football. . . Guys just suffering from lack of confidence at the minute which is making him try too hard.

If he gets a couple of goals and gets his confidence up Rafa must keep him in the side.

Im behind Robbie 100% I still feel he'll do good things for our club.

by **JC_81** » Tue Jan 20, 2009 9:09 pm

Mick, in response to your thread opener, I agree 100%.

I am a big fan of Keane, and I think he is a quality player. But for one reason or another (maybe several) things aren't working out for him at LFC. Of course he has to shoulder some of the criticism (most of it in fact), but a player of his quality doesn't turn to sh.ite over night, so there are definitely other factors involved there. I haven't given up on him yet, but I think Benitez just might have, and if he was shipped out in the summer I wouldn't die of shock.

But yes, we do need another option in attack. Ngog and Kuyt are not serious options as strikers imo - neither are prolific scorers. Kuyt on the right can 'do a job' but realistically that position needs strengthening too. Should, god forbid, Torres get injured again then we'd have serious problems and I'd be all for bringing in a loan signing even until the end of the season, or maybe taking a gamble on someone.

I'll leave myself open to criticism here, but here are my (semi-realistic) suggestions:

(Heskey and Owen I have left out - both have said they are staying at their respective clubs until their contracts expire in the summer. I also won't include Adriano or Crespo, both of whom Mourinho has said he will not let go)

Zigic - target man, rumoured to be wanting a move, but has turned down the Premiership in the past in favour of staying in Spain.

Tuncay - quality imo. I reckon 7-8 million would do it, but we probably don't have that to spend.

Gudjonsson - surely he fancies some first team football by now? Still a quality player

Saviola - again, surely he fancies some first team football by now - I'd take a punt on a loan.

McFadden - don't laugh! Ex-bitter, criminally underused by Moyes imo, too good for the Championship by a mile. Big game player (especially for Scotland). I'd be interested to see what this lad could do surrounded by talented players on the same wavelength as him - maybe 4 million?

Doyle - another that's too good for the Championship. All round play slightly lacking, but knows where the net is. It's a matter of time before he moves to a bigger club imo.

Right, let the insults rain in after that list

:laugh:

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Given that keane is currently rubbish.. - Do we need a new striker?

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