Liverpool FC Forum

by **Emerald Red** » Mon Sep 22, 2008 7:59 pm

It's actually gone from the calm thread to the talk absolute w@nk thread.

Oh, and Number 9, I'm from the clean part.

by **bigmick** » Mon Sep 22, 2008 8:36 pm

maguskwt wrote:but then nowadays if you say something positive when we don't win you get told 'shut the up you muppet you don't know what you're talking about'...

No you don't. Something positive is absolutely lovely, but there isn't any need to jump all over someone else's point of view and ridicule it.

Slickrick made the point that we aren't scoring anywhere near as freely as we ought to be, and gets slagged from pillar to post. Why? It's a perfectly fair and reasonable point. Clearly if we continue to score at the rate of a goal a game we won't challenge for the title. Now I'm not necessarily saying we will continue to be goal shy, and you would hope that Torres will soon find his form as well as Keane, but pointing it out is not doom and gloom is it? It's simply making a factual statement.

Similarly Saint was right. All this "we're not out of the title race FFS!!!!" is totally unnecessary. Nobody sensible is saying that we are. You don't lose the title in one match, but in this particular case you do lose two points against your rivals almost certainly. Not doom and gloom, just a statement of probability bordering on certainty.

So we're doing alright. Not playing particularly well, but we're up there. But I called this the calm thread not in a way that I wanted to tell people to be calm, just that as it was going off in the match thread I was hoping people could come on here and be sensible. In my view, it's just as daft jumping on somebody who points out we aren't scoring enough, as it is saying we are currently out of the title race.

by **Effes** » Mon Sep 22, 2008 8:46 pm

by **supersub** » Mon Sep 22, 2008 8:51 pm

Slickrick has every right to make his point but unfortunately he asked anyone who disagreed to remove their heads from their arsenal.Forgive me if, he actually meant sand!

by **Sabre** » Mon Sep 22, 2008 8:53 pm

Bigmick says

Slickrick made the point that we aren't scoring anywhere near as freely as we ought to be, and gets slagged from pillar to post. Why? It's a perfectly fair and reasonable point.

We're not scoring enough, is a fair point which has been raised by several members, and no-one has said anything against that

Slikcrick wrote

- "We have probably the best striker in the world fella,he's been injured but will be back to his best soon!Also Keane will get plenty once he breaks his duck!

Thats a load of absolute nonsense you posted there...how can people actually sit and type that sort of cr@p is beyond me!

But the poster is saying that it's absolute nonsense that we have the best striker of the world and Keane is a good player that will eventually show us his worth..

Which is a tad different I think?

Torres is not the best striker of the world for me but definitely he showed me last season he was what we needed. I won't retire my trust because of a slow start, and I won't say Keane isn't good enough. It would be easy to say he's good if he had scored three already, but the lad seems promising to me despite he seems to need badly his first goal.

Similarly others have said we lack certain kind of players or we have been shíte in corners, criticisms that may be disagreed but no-one has gone mad about it.

I think people jumped on slickcrick not for making a reasonable point but because of doubting our players, one of them being our total hero last season, and the other being a newbie.

by **bigmick** » Mon Sep 22, 2008 9:14 pm

slickrick wrote:any1 else notice we havn't beatin anyone by more than 1 goal yet, we don't have the same fire power goin forward to compete with chelsea and arsenal, utd have started slow but now thet have ronaldo back that will soon chance,

This was the original post of the "sub debate" (now that's a new one :wwww

). I don't think there's anything particularly offensive about it.

by **bigmick** » Mon Sep 22, 2008 9:19 pm

Anyways I shall the bloke to fight his own corner. I do think though, that as per usual there is over-reaction on both sides. On this occasion I think there has been an over reaction from those who are usually quite protective of the manager/team/Kuyt/Alonso during debates (happy clappers for short

). In the main, people were disappointed with the result but I think the reactions were generally fairly sensible.

by **Sabre** » Mon Sep 22, 2008 9:31 pm

Ok fair enough Bigmick, I don't find that particularly offensive now, but it depends on how (and when) you read it, as always, interpretation. If you say Ronaldo will help United that's obvious, but well, expecting Torres and Keane won't be much more productive than until now, can be understood as a bit of lack of trust in these two players, which may be a bit offensive for some fans.

Perhaps many in newkit have the temptation of asking something and are frightened to ask just in case they are slaughtered (yet another debate Mick):

If anyone is wondering something like "Will Torres' second season be a failure, will it be just the Second Season syndrome or permanent damage? will the defenders get the hang of him and know his tricks and is he gonna be neutralised like Alonso was in the second season which he was totally nullified -- or something?

At the risk of jinxing Torres I'll say my honest opinion: I'm not worried, I think he'll be crucial for us this season. Matching last season's numbers won't be easy but he'll definitely provide us a good season.

Come on Fernando!!

by **JoeTerp** » Mon Sep 22, 2008 9:45 pm

Sabre wrote:At the risk of jinxing Torres

maybe you should hang some garlic over your computer until he scores

by **Sabre** » Mon Sep 22, 2008 9:47 pm

I'm not there yet Joe, but I've started remembering Torres in my occasional prayers.

by **tubby** » Mon Sep 22, 2008 9:49 pm

Ok I have made a decision. No more doom and gloom negativity on the league out of my mouth until xmas. But I will still moan about the owners.

by **Roger Red Hat** » Mon Sep 22, 2008 9:54 pm

i go away for 3 days and this is what i come back to? Calm thread? lol

evening all

by **bigmick** » Mon Sep 22, 2008 9:59 pm

The Torres debate is an interesting one Sabes. Clearly he is a superb player, but it was and is probably unrealistic to expect him to match last seasons goalscoring prowess. I said as much last season and absolutely stand by that.

There are two fairly obvious reasons. Firstly and most obviously, teams will have studied our patterns of play, will have noticed where he scores most of his goals from and will defend accordingly. Sunderland funnily enough would only be mildly disappointed about the goal he scored against them I should think.

If I was setting up a team to defend against him as I've said before, I'd try and eliminate the space in behind by defending deeper (particularly now we've sold Crouch and bought Keane but that's another debate). I'd physically ask a question of him (if necessary by kicking him) when he runs the channels, and I'd actively encourage him to drop into the hole and beyond, and wouldn't necessarily be too perturbed about him shooting from distance, particularly off his left side . For balls which are played accross the box, I'd try and ensure that if he's going to score, it will be with his head.

Now none of the above is as simple as it sounds of course. Even if you did manage to defend in such a way, clearly he is from time to time going to score from distance (as he did against Sunderland) or with a header (as he should have done against Stoke). There is no doubnt though, that if you have a plan you have a chance, and by now teams will have a coherent plan. Obviously it makes it slightly easier to implement that plan when we only really have two genuine goal threats, and we play with Kuyt on the right of a 4-4-2, but once again thats another debate entirely.

The other obvious reason he'll struggle to match last seasons tally is that it's the simple law of averages. He had one of those spells through most of last season where everytime he swung his foot it went in. Gerrard had one a couple of seasons back from Kuyts position, and Crouch did too until we managed to successfully rotate the tendency out of him. It never lasts forever though, nobody is that hot for that long.

My guess this season is that Torres will do very well to score 2/3 as many goals as he did last season, which would still have him as one of the very best strikers in the League and therefore on the planet. Gerrard will no doubt score a bagfull as well whilst winning us countless matches, but he will probably display some questionable body language at some point which will give people ample opportunity to forget such things. We are though going to need the goals "topping up" from elsewhere at some stage.

We were still a bit short last season even with Torres shooting the lights out. No doubt Keane will get going and score pretty regularly, maybe even our right midfielder will get off the mark before his non scoring run advances from 26 league games to 30 (I hope that stats right Saint or I'll get slaughtered

). But whatever and wherever, not necessarily now or next week, but pretty soon we are going to need to start playing better and scoring more goals.

No doom and gloom like I say, just saying it as it is.

by **account deleted by request** » Mon Sep 22, 2008 10:20 pm

Number 9 wrote:
slickrick wrote:any1 else notice we havn't beatin anyone by more than 1 goal yet, we don't have the same fire power goin forward to compete with chelsea and arsenal, utd have started slow but now thet have ronaldo back that will soon chance,

We have probably the best striker in the world fella,he's been injured but will be back to his best soon!Also Keane will get plenty once he breaks his duck!

Thats a load of absolute nonsense you posted there...how can people actually sit and type that sort of cr@p is beyond me!
Unbelievable!

Sabre, I think you have got the wrong end of the stick with slickrick

He only said the first part mate....... it was Barry's reply that was saying it was a load of nonsense mate :laugh:

by **DAV** » Mon Sep 22, 2008 10:24 pm

This has probably been mentioned so I will apologise in advance. I'm someone will show the exact results.
Over the year’s teams that have been promoted to the premiership always seem to get results against us at anfield. Examples of this are barnsley,bradford (I think) sheff utd,stoke, birmingham. their are probabley more. Why is this and what causes it??? AS these results against the new boys, seems to happen over and over again.

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