Liverpool FC Forum

by **bigmick** » Sat Sep 20, 2008 8:11 pm

So we drew with Stoke today. Was it an indication of the way things are going to go this season, are we about to begin one of our bliiiiiiiiiiips, or is it simply a blip?

Can we moan given the fact we haven't really got going this season yet, save for one game?

Have we bought the right players, sold the right players, have they settled in yet and can we expect improvement?

What of our rivals, are Manchester United in decline or are they going to mirror last seasons improvement after a slow start, are Chelsea in for the long haul under Scolari, and has Arsene Wenger once again sold a decent portion of his best players and successfully replaced them without spending any money?

And as for us, where does this leave us, are we going to challenge or not?

Here's my take:

Stoke were likely to get a result somewhere against one of the big four, it just so happened to be us. We've had the rub in a couple of games this season and by all accounts we didn't get it today, it happens. Positives are that we can't blame it on rotation or bizarre team selections, once again the manager went with just about his best team (with Gerrard centrally that is).

Our next match (against Everton I believe) now becomes absolutely crucial. We obviously need to win that one and get ourselves going again, extended bliiiiiiiips this season will see us out of it quite quickly I should think. No panic though, credit to the new boys for putting bodies on the line.

A couple of people mentioned that we should have kept Crouch and perhaps not bought Keane. I don't go for that, Keane IS a good player and he WILL perform for us. Yes Crouch was handy for games like today, but Keane is a better player it's that simple. Similarly people continue to be exasperated by Kuyt, which is just as much a waste of time as continually supporting him blindly as others do. He's been here for a few seasons now, he isn't going to change and by and large does the same shift every week. He isn't good enough to play in a title winning team as a right midfielder in a 4-4-2 (and frankly anybody who disputes that is either blind, mad, or deluded IMHO) but we knew that anyway. He does his best, runs around a lot and if you play him against Everton, he will play in a very similar fashion to the way he played today.If we are going to play 4-4-2 and not last seasons 4-5-1, then if we are going to play to our optimum we need a right midfielder who isn't Kuyt IMHO. Now before people jump all over me for "slagging him" off, I'm not I'm simply saying that he doesn't cut it in a 4-4-2.

Probably more worrying for me though than the form of Kuyt (which doesn't alter overly it seems to me) is the form of the strikers. If memory serves we have one goal between them in 8 matches (please allow a 200% tolerance on stats when I use them). Torres obviously is absolutely World Class, Keane based on historical records is absolutely top class, but we need goals. Somehow, from somewhere we need to start scoring freely via our strikers. This needs to happen fairly sharpish I would think or like today we are going to run into problems.

As for our rivals, well it does look like Chelsea will be a point or three stronger this season with Scholari at the helm. Man Utd will be up there, you just know it and I really can't see them losing at Chelsea on Sunday, simply because they don't get beat by big four teams consecutively. I have a hunch that like us with Keane, they may find it hard to shoehorn Berbatov into the set up, but if you finsih ahead of them you'll probably win it. I take the game between them and Chelsea to be a draw, which would mean we haven't lost any ground on either, but we have wasted a great opportunity (again) to open up a wee gap. Arsenal are probably flattering to decive a bit and I have them nailed on for fourth spot, but it has to be said that once again their manager appears to have performed a miracle (and I know it irks people somewhat if you metion that, but remember this is a calm appraisal thread).

So where does all that leave us? Well I still fancy us to go very close. We will though need to play much better than we are, we will need to score much more freely up top, and obviously we need to stick with the sensible selection processes. So far, just about the only selections which looked a bit "styleee" to me were the revolving centre backs at the start of the season, and Lucas in the Champions League game. Provided we stick to this new found sensibility, we should be alright. If we bite the bullet and replace Kuyt with Gerrard, we might properly be in business IMHO.

by **tubby** » Sat Sep 20, 2008 8:21 pm

For me if we were ready and serious about wanting the league then we wouldnt be having blips like this so early in the season. And forget about replacing anyone with anyone. When has Rafa ever caved this quick when it comes to tactical matters. He will try it his way until he is blue in the face or until we are out of the title race. Whichever comes first, probably the latter.

by **7_Kewell** » Sat Sep 20, 2008 8:22 pm

bigmick wrote:So where does all that leave us?

out of the title race by christmas and finishing 4th

by **rafa09** » Sat Sep 20, 2008 8:22 pm

Agree with you completly mate. to many ppl in here losing there heads

by **tubby** » Sat Sep 20, 2008 8:25 pm

7_Kewell wrote:
bigmick wrote:So where does all that leave us?

out of the title race by christmas and finishing 4th

Christmas is too optimistic. I say November and thats being posative imo.

by **rafa09** » Sat Sep 20, 2008 8:32 pm

CHRIST the negativity here is doing my head in. The samaritans would have a field day in here.Shall i pass out the razor blades :angry:

by **J*o*n*D*o*e** » Sat Sep 20, 2008 8:44 pm

i think you`ll probably find the people being negative where never positive

by **bigmick** » Sat Sep 20, 2008 8:45 pm

rafa09 wrote:CHRIST the negativity here is doing my head in. The samaritans would have a field day in here.Shall i pass out the razor blades

No. No need for razor blades, but rather than dismissing peoples opinions as "negativity", you might want ot offer some imput yourself. Some "positivity" perhaps?

by **ruskiy playmaker** » Sat Sep 20, 2008 8:51 pm

How can we not feel negative? We had a chance to have the best start in the league ever and once again the team blew it against a pathetic Stoke side. On top of that Arsenal have found their form and they overtook us in the league.

by **NANNY RED** » Sat Sep 20, 2008 8:56 pm

Im calm Mick :laugh:

ive just had a couple of herbal ones.

Chilling out on a Saturday night babysitting my bitters granddaughter with her kit on singin feed the Yak to me and im calm :laugh:

by **rafa09** » Sat Sep 20, 2008 9:01 pm

I AM POSITIVE. This time next week all the posts will be were great fantastic etc etc When we beat the BITTERS.And tell me when have i been negative?

?

by **bigmick** » Sat Sep 20, 2008 9:14 pm

rafa09 wrote:I AM POSITIVE. This time next week all the posts will be were great fantastic etc etc When we beat the BITTERS.And tell me when have i been negative? ? ? ? ?

I'm not saying you are being negative :no

Feck me I'm asking for an opinion which isn't a one liner or a generalisation of other peoples input. What do you actually think? Why are you positive? I asked about twenty questions in the topic starter, have a bash at one of them if you can be bothered. If you can't (and I don't blame you frankly if this is so), then there seems little point in dismissing other peoples views if you yourself don't have any.

I've talked a couple of times about the demise of the forum in some respects, this thread and some of the replies contained within it are a perfect illustration of what I'm talking about.

by **bigmick** » Sat Sep 20, 2008 9:17 pm

NANNY RED wrote:Im calm Mick ive just had a couple of herbal ones.

Chilling out on a Saturday night babysitting my bitters granddaughter with her kit on singin feed the Yak to me and im calm

Sometimes some of us OOTers forget what you scousers have to put up with Nan. I'm calm too, Sunday morning and we're off out for a bit of lunch later on. No doubt the kids won't eat anything but will still find room to stuff some dessert in later on, before puking it all over the car on the way home. S'all cool though, even the fact that MIL is coming isn't going to put me in a bad mood today I'm determined. Never know your luck, might even get her sat next to the kids on the way home :;):

by **crazyhorse** » Sat Sep 20, 2008 9:20 pm

Its a point. We did not win but should have. Every team has off days, and you cant always get the result that you want or deserve. This point may well be vital come May.

by **Bad Bob** » Sat Sep 20, 2008 9:26 pm

Good post, Mick. The problem at the moment is the way Torres and Keane are misfiring. Some will say it's proof positive that the two can't play together. For me it's proof that Keane's still shouldering far too much pressure and Torres is still coming off and injury, after coming off a long Euro, after coming off a long and fruitful first season for us. Neither are off to the races yet but they are getting chances--hell, we could have had 5 today if they'd taken their chances. Once the sharpness returns (Torres) and once some of the pressure is relieved (Keane after one goes in off his a.rse) I back both to quickly get back near their best.

I'm also glad that you have pointed out that it wasn't team selection nor tactics nor Dirk Kuyt that cost us points today. Hopefully a few of your shipmates will take that on board because it's true. Today we put out virtually our strongest team and absolutely dominated the match, albeit without scoring. Arguably Rafa could have opted to play Gerrard or Babel down the right instead of Kuyt but there's absolutely nothing to suggest the outcome would have been any different. Stoke carried zero attacking threat today and simply opted to park the bus in front of their goal for 95 minutes. The fact that some of our best players--including our two world class ones--couldn't find a way through is deeply frustrating but not utterly disastrous. If I were a betting man I wouldn't be putting too much money on Torres, Gerrard, Keane, Alonso and the rest all forgetting their shooting boots on the same afternoon again.

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