Liverpool FC Forum

by **maypaxvobiscum** » Mon Sep 15, 2008 9:40 pm

spion wrote:I'm sorry to say that I wrote the thread myself & got most of my stats from Liverweb. It became obvious during the Sky sports game that Souness really struggled with the gist of the segways. He must hurt because he realises that in some part he is to blame for the years of hurt.

well looks like i wasnt that wrong after all.

by **maguskwt** » Mon Sep 15, 2008 9:50 pm

it is a bit harsh to put the blame on one manager for our 18 years of failure... surely the owners has to bear the responsibility...

by **Toffeehater** » Mon Sep 15, 2008 9:54 pm

maypaxvobiscum wrote:
spion wrote:I'm sorry to say that I wrote the thread myself & got most of my stats from Liverweb. It became obvious during the Sky sports game that Souness really struggled with the gist of the segways. He must hurt because he realises that in some part he is to blame for the years of hurt.

well looks like i wasnt that wrong after all.

, play nice mate !!

You don't want to get carded again !!

by **crazyhorse** » Mon Sep 15, 2008 11:33 pm

I am not sorry for saying this, but it is my opinion that the first post in this thread is a load of :censored:

.

Souness was not in charge of the club for very long. He inherited an ageing squad of players that was in decline and was under pressure from the start to restructure and deliver a title winning team inside one season. You cannot simply blame one manager for the years after him that produced nothing - you could equally put the same accusations to Roy Evans who arguably had one of the most talented squads of players LFC have had in a generation - he won nothing of note. I am not defending Souness, he failed at the club but at the same time I am trying to illustrate that it is very short sighted to blame just one man for 18 years of not winning the league, that is plain daft.

by **neil** » Mon Sep 15, 2008 11:34 pm

kenny turning down gazza, and didnt Houllier recommend Cantona to Souness? bet these 2 examples of misguided judgement didnt help however the euro ban was crucial, plus Souness as a manager was really :censored:

, really really :censored:

....paul stewart....jesus wept :down:

by **bigmick** » Tue Sep 16, 2008 12:16 am

crazyhorse wrote:I am not sorry for saying this, but it is my opinion that the first post in this thread is a load of .

Souness was not in charge of the club for very long. He inherited an ageing squad of players that was in decline and was under pressure from the start to restructure and deliver a title winning team inside one season. You cannot simply blame one manager for the years after him that produced nothing - you could equally put the same accusations to Roy Evans who arguably had one of the most talented squads of players LFC have had in a generation - he won nothing of note. I am not defending Souness, he failed at the club but at the same time I am trying to illustrate that it is very short sighted to blame just one man for 18 years of not winning the league, that is plain daft.

100% agree with this post.

by **Bermenstein** » Tue Sep 16, 2008 12:31 am

I blame Fergusson ,Wenger & Murihno to a lesser extent.

But Rafa's here to fix that....Come on title No.19

by **hello_red** » Tue Sep 16, 2008 1:05 am

To blame our fall from grace squarely at the feet of Souness is missing the point. He is not the best manager and wherever he has been that has been proved.

Im afraid its much more problematic than that, its our board. We have ploughed untold millions into the squad over the last 18 years and it has brought some success but not what this club is about domestic bliss! It has been rumoured back in the very early nineties we where offerdd a new stadium with seating for upto 70,000 people. In the wake of Hillsborough Liverpool city council wnated to move us to a seated stadium. But the board decided that staying put at Anfield and converting it would be better. Be it for sentimentality or some other reason. Either way this decision alone has cost us greatly! In the 90s United out grew us as a club because there board realised the potential the club had. We where already the dominant force but we never capitalised.

I think the lack of a new high capacity stadium, choice in manager and marketing decisions have cost us dearly.

We could be rivaling Real Madrid for nost successful team ever due to poor deicison making 18 years ago we are not.

Its not one thing its many things... We didnt evolve as a club fast enough.

by **Reg** » Tue Sep 16, 2008 2:39 am

hello_red wrote:To blame our fall from grace squarely at the feet of Souness is missing the point. He is not the best manager and wherever he has been that has been proved.

Im afraid its much more problematic than that, its our board. We have ploughed untold millions into the squad over the last 18 years and it has brought some success but not what this club is about domestic bliss! It has been rumoured back in the very early nineties we where offerdd a new stadium with seating for upto 70,000 people. In the wake of Hillsborough Liverpool city council wnated to move us to a seated stadium. But the board decided that staying put at Anfield and converting it would be better. Be it for sentimentality or some other reason. Either way this decision alone has cost us greatly! In the 90s United out grew us as a club because there board realised the potential the club had. We where already the dominant force but we never capitalised.

I think the lack of a new high capacity stadium, choice in manager and marketing decisions have cost us dearly.

We could be rivaling Real Madrid for nost successful team ever due to poor deicison making 18 years ago we are not.

Its not one thing its many things... We didnt evolve as a club fast enough.

Yeah but you're mixing up points to come up with the conclusion you want.

We extended the Kemlyn Rd and Annie Rd at the expense of squad purchases, a conscious decision to extend the ground - limited budget.

We didnt move from Anfield because the fans were dead against it. Its only recently the fans gave the thumbs up - after the club had wasted so much money buying the houses all around the ground!

Who 'offered' us a 70,000 seater?! Santa came early that year eh?

We have spent the money on players but Souness's players didnt gel, Evans lost control of some brilliant talent, GED wasted money bringing half of France over which Rafa subsequently sent back and replaced with Spaniards and half of eastern europe.

As I said earlier, the board is partly to blame for not kicking Souness, Evans and Houllier out earlier as they were spending fortunes, however they had great partisan support for 98% of their mangerial stay.

Other clubs have spent money and gone nowhere, Spurs, Barcodes etc.. the truth is we just went through a cycle where we were poorly managed, poorly directed and the players didnt have the self belief. When did we bottom out psychologically? ......?

?

If I had to name one 'outsider' who sewed the seeds of the Liverpool revival, put some old style Liverpool Football Club steel back into the veins of the players which we saw on saturaday against Ure, its not Rafa, its Gary McAllister.

Ave that !

by **crazyhorse** » Tue Sep 16, 2008 9:48 am

bigmick wrote:
crazyhorse wrote:I am not sorry for saying this, but it is my opinion that the first post in this thread is a load of .

Souness was not in charge of the club for very long. He inherited an ageing squad of players that was in decline and was under pressure from the start to restructure and deliver a title winning team inside one season. You cannot simply blame one manager for the years after him that produced nothing - you could equally put the same accusations to Roy Evans who arguably had one of the most talented squads of players LFC have had in a generation - he won nothing of note. I am not defending Souness, he failed at the club but at the same time I am trying to illustrate that it is very short sighted to blame just one man for 18 years of not winning the league, that is plain daft.

100% agree with this post.

Thanks Mick

by **crazyhorse** » Tue Sep 16, 2008 9:49 am

As an aside... As a player for me Souness remains a legend. Dont let his contribution to the club as a player be rubbished by his failure as manager.

by **stmichael** » Wed Sep 17, 2008 4:49 pm

crazyhorse wrote:I am not sorry for saying this, but it is my opinion that the first post in this thread is a load of .

Souness was not in charge of the club for very long. He inherited an ageing squad of players that was in decline and was under pressure from the start to restructure and deliver a title winning team inside one season. You cannot simply blame one manager for the years after him that produced nothing - you could equally put the same accusations to Roy Evans who arguably had one of the most talented squads of players LFC have had in a generation - he won nothing of note. I am not defending Souness, he failed at the club but at the same time I am trying to illustrate that it is very short sighted to blame just one man for 18 years of not winning the league, that is plain daft.

Good post.

Souness was a poor manager, but he hardly ruined us. I do, however, think that our relative failure in the 90s was down to the board pursuing the idea that the club manager had to be somebody with long-term connections with the club and not realising that the success of this policy in the past because we had the good fortune of having talented individuals in place. Once we didn't, the policy became a millstone.

by **woof woof !** » Wed Sep 17, 2008 4:56 pm

Personally I find this thread an embarrassment. Are we supposed to nail our failure on one individual or produce a list of all those that contributed to it ?.

Lets just blame everybody, the board , the management , the players and the fans.

Right , now that we've got that sorted can please f'ucking move on.

by **redmikey** » Wed Sep 17, 2008 5:18 pm

the blame can't lie with any manager imho even though souy would be a good place to start....... speedie,dicks,ruddock, and a massive self love issue

the blame is with the appointment of parry and even before that with the clubs old fashioned bootroom ideas of doing thing, you only have to see how desperate we were to sell to see the mess that we had got into and are still in at the moment with moores running the club like a small time project and not a world leading brand that we should be now. we shouldn't be surprised really if you saw the way the pools died on its feet at the first sign of competition

manure were a big club that were no where near us in the 70 and 80s, but now they are by far the best branded and sold club in the world, while i hate saying that the people behind the scenes saw in the early 90s that football was changing completely and they built there stadium bigger and sold there soles with a flag on it, while there are pro's and con of selling up there success was built on getting in an young manager from scotland who was a risk at the time, not promoting people who weren't ready for the job king kenny,souy,..... or never wanted it evan(yet i still think we played the best football under roy but the board never supported him at all)

i know bring the king into is a bit mad but my mum could have won the league with the team he had and while he bought well in the market, he has shown since leaving that he was never a great manager imho

rafa is the best for an age and while i think he can win us the league the game has changed so much that i don't think we will because chavski manure will just keep spending to get the cream of the players in. you just watch if manure are shrugging in jan that they don't go and spend 30-40 mill

by **burjennio** » Tue Sep 23, 2008 1:31 pm

Lets be honest, 18 years without a title cannot be blamed on a man who was in charge of the club for a mere 3. Souness was the wrong choice for Liverpool, but people in charge, as well as most fans saw what he had done at Rangers and thought he would be the right move. Unfortunately people didnt realize at the time that it wasnt Souness that had transformed Rangers but rather chairman David Murray by pumping cash into the club on a scale never witnessed previously in Scottish football, bringing up top talent from south of the border and totally steamrolling the competition. Almost in a mirror image of the Liverpool situation Celtic, a club whos methods were still firmly in the past went into freefall, incredibly falling out of the top 2 (unthinkable today) and being overtaken by Alex Fergusons old team Aberdeen as the side fighting it out for the major honours. It took Celtic 10 years to modernise and catch up to their biggest rivals, something many would say Liverpool has yet to do.

What i am trying to say is that I believe the modernisation of the club has had more to do with Liverpools fall from grace than any other factor, tho there are many that have contributed. If you started a hypothetical timeline I think it would look something like this (feel free to add)

1991 - Daglish leaves LFC after 4-4 draw with Everton in the FA Cup 5th round.

1991 - Graham Souness appointed manager as Liverpool finish 2nd behind dourfests Arsenal who lose only 1 game and bore the nation to flock to watching rugby like never before)

1992 Disappointing league finish is forgotten as Liverpool beat the worst football team to reach Wembley since Led Zepplin.

In a side note Howard Wilkinson decides that Lee Chapman can fire Leeds Utd to title glory again without Eric Cantona, who he then sells to Man Utd for the price of a kit kat. Tw@t

1994. The famous 3-3 with Man Utd at Anfield goes to show that while they have Cantona, Giggs and Hughes, we have Clough, Dicks and Hutchison. errr

1995- Roy Evans takes control and decides that defending is like sooooooo overrated and outscoring every one is the way forward. That or he didnt know how to defend in the 1st place

1996- With a 3 piece combo of Fowler, Macca and Colly Liverpool become the nearly men of English football by 1st beating Newcastle 4-3 to give themselves a chance of league glory only to go to coventry and lose the next week. Handing Utd the 1st part of the double they would complete against us in the FA Cup final despite having 11 split side injuries laughing at Liverpools white suits. Then follows the wilderness years.

Il finish this later, ive got to get back to work

:upside:

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