Liverpool FC Forum

by **woof woof !** » Mon Aug 04, 2008 5:52 pm

Don't see that it's a real problem, it wasn't as if the fella was really gonna figure in Rafa's plans for the first team this season.

Put Leto out on a year loan to some la liga club with the prospect of regular first team footy, sort out his permit in he meantime. He should return a better player, if not then we sell him on.

by **LFC2007** » Mon Aug 04, 2008 6:19 pm

Thank f*ck for that then, it means he'll have to get first team experience on loan, and it means he can't play for us. Good news for all concerned

On his way to Olympiakos

by **Rush Job** » Mon Aug 04, 2008 6:29 pm

Judge wrote:
Lee J wrote:
That left Leto needing a work permit but Liverpool's application was refused by the Department of Work and Pensions.

i bet if he was of asian/muslim/polish/iraq or Iran origin he'd be given the permit and a place to live on full benefits too.

fking country is twisted.

i have to agree with lee here.

if the dept of work and pensions, deny him a permit to work, cause he aint played much, then thats ludicrous, as the spongers from overseas, dont do fu'ck all and get all sorts of permits etc, and benefits, house, car, phone and free health care etc etc etc etc etc

the list goes on

at least the lad has a recognised job, and he's penalised for it

Fu*king government

I wouldnt beleve everything you read in the Mail Judgey, never heard of the DSS handing out car's or phones, or houses for that matter.

by **Judge** » Mon Aug 04, 2008 8:15 pm

Rush Job wrote:
Judge wrote:
Lee J wrote:
That left Leto needing a work permit but Liverpool's application was refused by the Department of Work and Pensions.

i bet if he was of asian/muslim/polish/iraq or Iran origin he'd be given the permit and a place to live on full benefits too.

fking country is twisted.

i have to agree with lee here.

if the dept of work and pensions, deny him a permit to work, cause he aint played much, then thats ludicrous, as the spongers from overseas, dont do fu'ck all and get all sorts of permits etc, and benefits, house, car, phone and free health care etc etc etc etc etc

the list goes on

at least the lad has a recognised job, and he's penalised for it

Fu*king government

I wouldnt beleve everything you read in the Mail Judgey, never heard of the DSS handing out car's or phones, or houses for that matter.

err yes it happens

seen it with my own eyes also

the immigrants also showed me the paperwork

i could not believe my eyes

by **Bad Bob** » Mon Aug 04, 2008 8:41 pm

Let's keep this discussion as near to football as possible, eh fellas? Cheers. :blues:

by **Sabre** » Mon Aug 04, 2008 9:51 pm

LFC2007 wrote:Thank f*ck for that then, it means he'll have to get first team experience on loan, and it means he can't play for us. Good news for all concerned

On his way to Olympiakos

I don't share the apparent "not bother"ness about the decission. If we had the work permission, a loan would still be an option for us, possibly a good one. So this decission is a big nuisance no matter how we look at it.

The point is what's the criteria for the denial. This decission, once again, is bad for us, like the Mark Gonzalez case, who had to be loaned to Spain, and we waited for him and then he didn't answer well to the pressure of a big club. At the least, we lost some precious time with him because of a similar decission, and that costed us.

I think that to be a fringe player of Liverpool is as important as being a key player at a small premier team. Leto fulfills his job, which is not only in official games or reserve games but also in training, and he does his job in a top club. He's as good as to be an argentinian international, so if he doesn't receive this permission, then I don't know who will. Do they apply a known criteria? do they give reasons?

by **The Manhattan Project** » Mon Aug 04, 2008 10:23 pm

Leto should tell the government he's a Latvian who speaks no English and may be a pimp and human trafficker.

He'll get into the country with no problems.

by **LFC2007** » Mon Aug 04, 2008 10:52 pm

Sabre wrote:
LFC2007 wrote:Thank f*ck for that then, it means he'll have to get first team experience on loan, and it means he can't play for us. Good news for all concerned

On his way to Olympiakos

I don't share the apparent "not bother"ness about the decission. If we had the work permission, a loan would still be an option for us, possibly a good one. So this decission is a big nuisance no matter how we look at it.

The point is what's the criteria for the denial. This decission, once again, is bad for us, like the Mark Gonzalez case, who had to be loaned to Spain, and we waited for him and then he didn't answer well to the pressure of a big club. At the least, we lost some precious time with him because of a similar decission, and that costed us.

I think that to be a fringe player of Liverpool is as important as being a key player at a small premier team. Leto fulfills his job, which is not only in official games or reserve games but also in training, and he does his job in a top club. He's as good as to be an argentinian international, so if he doesn't receive this permission, then I don't know who will. Do they apply a known criteria? do they give reasons?

I'm not bothered by the decision as he doesn't look good enough for us, and if he stayed, he'd probably be playing in the reserves for most of the time. I think it would actually benefit him, and us, if he went on loan. He'd probably get more of a chance to play, and at 21, he really does need playing time.

From a legal POV, I can fully understand the decision within the remit they (the Home Office) set out.

A full set of criteria relating to work permits can be found
HERE.

Certainly I wouldn't say Leto is a player of the 'highest calibre', nor a player able to make a 'significant contribution' to the Premier League, and more importantly - I'm almost certain he hasn't played in at least 75% of competive matches for his country in the past two years.

Are the stated criteria fair?

Different question altogether.

by **LegBarnes** » Mon Aug 04, 2008 11:13 pm

Judge wrote:
Lee J wrote:
That left Leto needing a work permit but Liverpool's application was refused by the Department of Work and Pensions.

i bet if he was of asian/muslim/polish/iraq or Iran origin he'd be given the permit and a place to live on full benefits too.

fking country is twisted.

i have to agree with lee here.

if the dept of work and pensions, deny him a permit to work, cause he aint played much, then thats ludicrous, as the spongers from overseas, dont do fu'ck all and get all sorts of permits etc, and benefits, house, car, phone and free health care etc etc etc etc etc

the list goes on

at least the lad has a recognised job, and he's penalised for it

Fu*king government

Judge trust me they dont given any thing like that if they have it , its because they stole it , bought it or how ever they get it.

My girl friend is an higher executive officer in Border and immigration.

They dont give them any thing apart from basic to live on as they are not alowed to work while goverment is deciding to let them stay here or not.

by **Scottbot** » Mon Aug 04, 2008 11:22 pm

The irony is Rafa will be gutted and most of us are happy. I'm sorry but this lad is shocking and i'm relieved he won't be playing in a red shirt this season.

This kid makes Voronin look like the White Pele.

by **Reg** » Mon Aug 04, 2008 11:32 pm

The Manhattan Project wrote:Leto should tell the government he's a Latvian who speaks no English and may be a pimp and human trafficker.

He'll get into the country with no problems.

No way he´s gonna get that work permit unless he´s a lesbian.

by **Sabre** » Mon Aug 04, 2008 11:39 pm

Thanks for the link LFC2007, and I understand your views.

Work permits will be issued to international players of the highest calibre who are able to make a significant contribution in footballing terms to the development of the United Kingdom game at the highest level (i.e. clubs competing in the Premier Leagues and Football Leagues in England and Scotland, the Welsh Premier League and the Irish Premier League in Northern Ireland).

I can agree the aim of the rule, as otherwise a Conference team could make scatter gun tactics with lads coming from Africa and offer a lot of small shitty contracts. And since there are a lot of lower teams, there would be a lot of players that could use the pretext of football to stay in the country.

But I disagree the arbitrary conditions that are later set and that are based in FIFA rankings. Gonzalez, was denied the permit because Chile hadn't a high position. Leto's problem is different, his nation is so powerful in terms of football that playing "A" games would be not only expensive for him, but for most of English professional players (bar the international regular ones).

If you look at the quoted text, I think Leto fulfills the criteria. More even so if they consider Irish and Welsh leagues as top ones. Let's remember that working as a footballer can be understood broadly, as there are conference leagues and a lot of lower divisions. Certainly playing at Liverpool, even as a reserve, with possibilities to have minutes, should be considered as top football.

Gonzalez wasn't good enough for Liverpool, correct, but he might be very good for Bolton or Betis in Spain, other smaller, yet top division clubs. Same thing applies to Leto, IMHO, it's very harsh to deny him a work permit if we attend to what it is quoted. Not good enough for Liverpool doesn't mean not good enough for another top division club.

by **Kharhaz** » Mon Aug 04, 2008 11:48 pm

As easy as it is to say "oh yeah but if it was united..." it would be wrong. United had a player called Jovan Kirovski a few years back and he scored a load of goals for there reserves, a definite prospect for the future but united were denied a work permit for him and so he left for germany. Seems a bit harsh with Leto but he hasnt played a premiership game has he? A season on loan at a club that will give him games will benefit him immensely.

by **LFC2007** » Mon Aug 04, 2008 11:56 pm

Sabre wrote:Thanks for the link LFC2007, and I understand your views.

Work permits will be issued to international players of the highest calibre who are able to make a significant contribution in footballing terms to the development of the United Kingdom game at the highest level (i.e. clubs competing in the Premier Leagues and Football Leagues in England and Scotland, the Welsh Premier League and the Irish Premier League in Northern Ireland).

I can agree the aim of the rule, as otherwise a Conference team could make scatter gun tactics with lads coming from Africa and offer a lot of small shitty contracts. And since there are a lot of lower teams, there would be a lot of players that could use the pretext of football to stay in the country.

But I disagree the arbitrary conditions that are later set and that are based in FIFA rankings. Gonzalez, was denied the permit because Chile hadn't a high position. Leto's problem is different, his nation is so powerful in terms of football that playing "A" games would be not only expensive for him, but for most of English professional players (bar the international regular ones).

If you look at the quoted text, I think Leto fulfills the criteria. More even so if they consider Irish and Welsh leagues as top ones. Let's remember that working as a footballer can be understood broadly, as there are conference leagues and a lot of lower divisions. Certainly playing at Liverpool, even as a reserve, with possibilities to have minutes, should be considered as top football.

Gonzalez wasn't good enough for Liverpool, correct, but he might be very good for Bolton or Betis in Spain, other smaller, yet top division clubs. Same thing applies to Leto, IMHO, it's very harsh to deny him a work permit if we attend to what it is quoted. Not good enough for Liverpool doesn't mean not good enough for another top division club.

According to the text:

Change of employment
A club wishing to sign a player from another United Kingdom club must submit an application to the sports and entertainments team, UK Border Agency. If the work permit criteria are satisfied, a permit will be issued for the period of a player's contract, up to a maximum of five years.

Loans
If a player is moving to another club on loan then the new club must make a fresh application before the player can play for them. If the player does not meet the criteria and the club have requested a panel, the panel will be arranged.

Therefore the decision to grant a permit is based partly on the club which the player intends to sign for - hence stipulations for changes of employment i.e. signing for another club, permanently or on loan. So, if Leto had come from Lanús to Bolton, the consideration of the panel would be different. He would probably have a greater opportunity of playing, and hence he'd have an actual capacity to make a 'significant contribution', making the likelihood of a permit being granted higher. It's the club that makes the application on behalf of the player - so the application is club-specific.

by **kunilson** » Mon Aug 04, 2008 11:59 pm

unfortunate situation for us........but not something that will effect us that much i don't think.

I remember Leto being good on the ball but lacking when crossing....who knows he could have turned out to be good.

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