Liverpool FC Forum

by **66-1112520797** » Sun Jun 15, 2008 7:14 am

1. With the "gruesome twosome" in charge of the club, do you honestly think they'll leave the club in a finacial wreck and leave us finacially beyond recognition as a top club ?

2. With money apparently being tight for the club to spend on players, would it then be percieved as the "gruesome twosomes" fault for not challenging for the title or Rafa's ?

3. If David Moores was still in charge of the club, and bought Mascharano and Torres aswell as a few others, money permitting of course. And say we yet again failed to challenge for the title, would it be Moores' fault or Rafa's fault for challenging.

4. Why do you think that Rafa is willing to sell Xabi Alonso, and recruit Barry when other areas of the team need more work on, what can you see in that, if money is so tight ?

5. Do you think that in order to challenge for the league next season we should adopt a more expansive game, and throw caution to the wind more, maybe acquiring more "flairy" type players in doing so. Or do you believe that Rafa's seemingly pragmatic approach to opponents week in week out will stand us i better stead for challenging ?

6. Will Rafa rotate us out of form and out of the title race before Novemeber (if that is the case). Or will he get the juggling act of the CL and the Prem right this season, in all, do you think he has learned anything from the previous two campaigns, and even more importantly do you think he'll act accordingly ?

7. Since Rafa has been here, have you seen any sign that he'll bring us number 19, and more importantly do you think he's the man to bring home number 19 ?

Well that was seven

Oh well I was bored so I Thought I'd throw a few questions up.

by **account deleted by request** » Sun Jun 15, 2008 8:35 am

1. With the "gruesome twosome" in charge of the club, do you honestly think they'll leave the club in a finacial wreck and leave us finacially beyond recognition as a top club ?

I hope that before that happens the club gets taken over, my worry is that if we fail to qualify or progress in the CL (we still have to play preliminaries) things could spiral quickly out of control. Failure to get the new stadium started would also set us back significantly.

2. With money apparently being tight for the club to spend on players, would it then be percieved as the "gruesome twosomes" fault for not challenging for the title or Rafa's ?

Rafa's.......I think we have enough "surplus to requirements" squad players WE CAN SELL to buy the players we need, injuries would obviously be more a serious problem with a reduced squad but I think our squad is a little bloated anyway. If we fail to challenge I think it will be Rafa I will be blaming , although not easy to ignore the boardroom problems, its his responsibility to make sure the team is focused on football and results.

3. If David Moores was still in charge of the club, and bought Mascharano and Torres aswell as a few others, money permitting of course. And say we yet again failed to challenge for the title, would it be Moores' fault or Rafa's or fault for not(?) challenging.

Rafa's

4. Why do you think that Rafa is willing to sell Xabi Alonso, and recruit Barry when other areas of the team need more work on, what can you see in that ?

I think there could be many different motives behind the moves, ranging from fall out's behind the scenes, to deciding that if we continue to play 4-5-1 we need more from our 2 holding midfielders, certainly it can't be all about money now, as at best it seems we will break even on the deals and in all likelyhood we will be spending more. Maybe the idea is to reduce the squad (to bring in funds) with Barry's versatility being a key factor to cover for the sales?

Certainly I would have thought that Rafa would be more concerned with strengthening other areas of the team rather than the one area were we seem to be well covered. I would be much happier if we were selling Alonso to fund the purchase of Van Der Vaart rather than Barry for example.

5. Do you think that in order to challenge for the league next season we should adopt a more expansive game, and throw caution to the wind more, maybe acquiring more "flairy" type players in doing so. Or do you believe that Rafa's seemingly pragmatic approach to opponents week in week out will stand us i better stead for challenging ?

I don't think we should turn into Barca, as I believe our best chance is with a strong defence, but we need more game breakers in the team. At the moment we are too dependent on Gerrard and Torres, and have no real flair players, so I would like to see a top quality creative player brought in, and if possible another striker (apart from Torres I honestly dont think ANY of our strikers are good enough) To be honest I think our team needs more intelligent(clever) players, we have some great athletes but no-one who really reads the game in the way that a Dalglish or Beardsley did.

6. Will Rafa rotate us out of form and out of the title race before Novemeber. Or will he get the juggling act of the CL and the Prem right this season, in all, do you think he has learned anything from the previous to campaigns, and even more importantly do you think he'll act accordingly ?

I think he will have learned quite a few lessons from his past mistakes, but I don't expect him to change his rotation and formation changing ideas, I think it will be more of the same, but with hopefully better players being brought in. We need to challenge this season or I think we will begin to have real problems holding on to some of our best players

7. Since Rafa has been here, have you seen any sign that he'll bring us number 19, and more importantly do you think he's the man to bring home number 19 ?

I thought we were very close to having a title winning team at the end of the 2005/6 season. I thought with a couple of top quality additions we would really come close the following season. We have certainly bought better players (Torres, Masch, Agger) but because we have never really addressed the problem areas of the team ( both flancs and a real lack of creativity) we haven't really progressed. Certainly the team of 2006 was better balanced and played better football than the team of last season even with the arrival of Torres.

No, I think we will win lots of cups and finish top 4, but I don't see us winning the league under Rafa unless we get new owners willing to pump plenty of money into the club. I think if we are to win the league without a massive influx of money (or a very long wait)we would need a change of manager.

by **bigmick** » Sun Jun 15, 2008 11:49 am

1. I don't think they'll leave us a financial wreck no. They were very astute in that they bought the club for a song given it's potential earning power. At some point in the the next eighteen months or so they will sell it IMHo, probably for a sum which will treble their money. By definition, whoever buys it is going to need long arms and not quite so deep pockets, so we'll be Ok financially I should think.

2. It depends how good a job you think Rafa has doine in building the team. If like me you think he has done a very good job of improving the playing staff, and you think that our results in the Champions League where we consistently beat other "top" teams aren't a total fluke, then it follows that you think we ought to be able to challenge for the league. THAT DOESN'T NECESSARILY MEAN YOU THINK WE SHOULD WIN IT. Although it is a fact that we are outgunned somewhat financially, I did post up a couple of days ago that I was under the impression that we were the biggest spenders last season. While I did get pulled in for questioning by the thought police, nobody actually produced any factual evidence to dispute it. Despite that though, I should think that our lack of financial muscle over the last few seasons would mean that if we were to challenge but ultimately fail due to lack of squad depth/resources to go out and buy big if needs be in the January window, then any manager would have a reasonable excuse. To not challenge at all though for four seasons is not in my view something which can be laid at the door of the owners.

3. If David Moores was in charge of the club, the same would apply. It would be nothing to do wiuth the owners. It would though be something else I'm afraid for some fans who are determined never ever, no matter what, to ever find fault with the manager. It would be because the grounds too small or the club shop isn't open long enough.

4. I think Rafa is willing to sell Alonso to recruit Barry because he thinks that Barry is a better player. I don't agree with him. He also probably thinks that Alonso isn't showing anything like the form of his first eigtheen months, and that his contribution going forward is the best part of zero. He also probably thinks that as an out and out holding midfielder who isn't allowed to pass it more than twenty yards, we have better options at the club, and in these feelings I would agree with him. On a personal level, I am a bit disappointed that the option of encouraging Alonso to play out of the pocket a bit more hasn't been further investigated and stuck with. I say this fully aware that any attempts by any poster to discuss the nuances of association football on here does infuriate a certain section of the forum. I'll no doubt be accused now of saying that if Rafa grasped the technical and tactical intricacies as well as me, we would p!ss the league every year.

6. No he won't rotate us out of form. If our form from February onwards last season wasn't enough to convince him that picking a settled team and formation makes sense, then he would be an idiot. He isn't an idiot. Expect to see us fielding a settled team and formation right from the outset next season, even in pre-season. We will as a direct result of this change in stance go very close to winning the league, although you can fully expect to see those who refuse to accept that over rotation has been detremental to our progress year on year, to bafflingly claim that success when not rotating to anything like the same extent is "nothing to do with non rotation". I don't though know the reason why they will say this, I just think that it is so.

7. Yes and no to signs we could win the league under Rafa. I think defensively we have been very well coached with some fairly innovative set ups, while I think under a budget which is substantial but still less than his immediate rivals he has bought pretty well. Yes there have been far too many "options" and "possibility" players, and yes there have been a couple of glaring failures but all managers have those. I know people think it is disloyal/a disgrace/ a cocktail barman getting above his station/somebody thinking he knows rafa's job better than the manager but I think he has built an excellent team of players. Quite why thinking he has built an excellent team of players makes me disloyal/a disgrace etc etc is a constant source of mystery to me but that's not important right now, what is important is that the group of players he has put together are a match for anyone. If they are selected on a fairly regular basis OBVIOUSLY NOT SAYING WE SHOULD PLAY THE SAME TEAM IN EVERY SINGLE GAME HOWEVER, then we will go very close. Next season, they will be selected on a regular basis and we will go very close. Rafa will get another season at least, which is great because he'll deserve it. if he continues to build and improve the team, he may even win us the title if we stick with him which is great too as he deserves it. Saying it though makes you a disgrace. Saying though that we can never ever hope to challenge for the title because Man Utd have got more money than us, Chelsea too, is Ok and makes you loyal/staunch/true.

by **bigmick** » Sun Jun 15, 2008 11:55 am

Sorry I forgot number five. No I don't think we should be looking to play "expansive" football at the moment. "Winning" football is what we need, by whatever means necessary. Normally, teams begin building a dynaty with pregmatism followed by 'icing on the cake' players. The only real exception to this rule would be Wenger, and even in his case he inherited a mean back four and a very workmanlike team wiht the exception of Bergkamp. No, Rafa's counter attacking style is fine by me. I also think that we possess enough quality even before we've made any signings this season to break down anybody who tries to just shut up shop against us. The better teams (other top four sides) come at you anyway so counter attack is fine.

by **Leonmc0708** » Sun Jun 15, 2008 12:14 pm

Yawn - a Rafa bashing love in.

by **lakes10** » Sun Jun 15, 2008 12:33 pm

1. With the "gruesome twosome" in charge of the club, do you honestly think they'll leave the club in a finacial wreck and leave us finacially beyond recognition as a top club ?

A: No they will some how sell us for a lot of money

2. With money apparently being tight for the club to spend on players, would it then be percieved as the "gruesome twosomes" fault for not challenging for the title or Rafa's ?

A: Rafa, he has built a good team but not used it right

3. If David Moores was still in charge of the club, and bought Mascharano and Torres aswell as a few others, money permitting of course. And say we yet again failed to challenge for the title, would it be Moores' fault or Rafa's fault for challenging.

A: Rafa, he has only one thing on his mind , CL

4. Why do you think that Rafa is willing to sell Xabi Alonso, and recruit Barry when other areas of the team need more work on, what can you see in that, if money is so tight ?

A: to keep SG happy and to make sure he stays at the club.

5. Do you think that in order to challenge for the league next season we should adopt a more expansive game, and throw caution to the wind more, maybe acquiring more "flairy" type players in doing so. Or do you believe that Rafa's seemingly pragmatic approach to opponents week in week out will stand us i better stead for challenging ?

A. no we must more wide and sometime open the play up and put our back 4 at risk.

6. Will Rafa rotate us out of form and out of the title race before Novemeber (if that is the case). Or will he get the juggling act of the CL and the Prem right this season, in all, do you think he has learned anything from the previous two campaigns, and even more importantly do you think he'll act accordingly ?

A : Well thats the hard one, i hope that now sammy is at the club things might change, as for Rafa "learned anything" well no, he has a big head and feel he is right all the time, thats why we need Sammy.

7. Since Rafa has been here, have you seen any sign that he'll bring us number 19, and more importantly do you think he's the man to bring home number 19 ?

A: The Big shock is yes he can bring us the 19th, if and its a big if, he forgets about the CL for one year.

by **66-1112520797** » Sun Jun 15, 2008 1:12 pm

Leonmc0708 wrote:Yawn - a Rafa bashing love in.

Comment.

by **bigmick** » Sun Jun 15, 2008 9:58 pm

"It depends how good a job you think Rafa has done. If like me you think he has done a very good job of improving the playing staff".

"I should think that our lack of financial muscle over the last few seasons would mean that if we were to challenge but ultimately fail due to lack of squad depth/resources to go out and buy big if needs be in the January window, then any manager would have a reasonable excuse"

"No he won't rotate us out of form"

"I think defensively we have been very well coached with some fairly innovative set ups, while I think under a budget which is substantial but still less than his immediate rivals he has bought pretty well."

"I think he has built an excellent team of players"

"Rafa will get another season at least, which is great because he'll deserve it."

"he may even win us the title if we stick with him which is great too as he deserves it."

"No, Rafa's counter attacking style is fine by me."

The response? "Yawn, a Rafa bashing love in"

This really is a very strange place sometimes. If that is "Rafa bashing" it kind of makes me wonder what I'd have to say to be praising him up?

Lets have a try.

Rather than "very good job of improving the playing staff" I should have said stupendously good job of improving it. Instead of saying it would be OK if financial muscle ultimately led to us falling short of winning the Prem, what I should have said was "as long as we don't get relegated Rafa is the new Shankly". For "very" well coached read "incredibly, unbelieveably well coached" and as for the bit about his budget being less than his rivals,, just stick "miniscule/non existent" in instead.

Where it says that I think he has built an excellent team of players, I should have said the best football team ever on the whole of planet Earth. Also rather than saying he will get another season after the next because he'll deserve it, I should have said he will be the manager for the next fifty years. as for the last bit, the "he may even win us the title" I can only apologise. What I actually meant, obviously, was that he will definately win us the title, fifteen times on the trot. Silly me.

Now, is everybody happy?

by **Scottbot** » Mon Jun 16, 2008 12:11 am

Bamaga man wrote:1. With the "gruesome twosome" in charge of the club, do you honestly think they'll leave the club in a finacial wreck and leave us finacially beyond recognition as a top club ?

2. With money apparently being tight for the club to spend on players, would it then be percieved as the "gruesome twosomes" fault for not challenging for the title or Rafa's ?

3. If David Moores was still in charge of the club, and bought Mascharano and Torres aswell as a few others, money permitting of course. And say we yet again failed to challenge for the title, would it be Moores' fault or Rafa's fault for challenging.

4. Why do you think that Rafa is willing to sell Xabi Alonso, and recruit Barry when other areas of the team need more work on, what can you see in that, if money is so tight ?

5. Do you think that in order to challenge for the league next season we should adopt a more expansive game, and throw caution to the wind more, maybe acquiring more "flairy" type players in doing so. Or do you believe that Rafa's seemingly pragmatic approach to opponents week in week out will stand us i better stead for challenging ?

6. Will Rafa rotate us out of form and out of the title race before Novemeber (if that is the case). Or will he get the juggling act of the CL and the Prem right this season, in all, do you think he has learned anything from the previous two campaigns, and even more importantly do you think he'll act accordingly ?

7. Since Rafa has been here, have you seen any sign that he'll bring us number 19, and more importantly do you think he's the man to bring home number 19 ?

Well that was seven Oh well I was bored so I Thought I'd throw a few questions up.

1/ I don't think it will come to that. look for them to sell when the deadline to sort funds for the ground comes into focus. All hell will break loose when it becomes clear they can't build it (how can they?) and they will sell the club on for a big swag profit.

2/ Fault lies with the manager for not getting the best out of the squad (in terms of the league) last season but the owners will probably bear the brunt and i'm happy to see that happen. They came in with all these promises and turned out to be a couple of bent crooks and deserve everything they get.

3/ The blame would lay at Rafa's door but hey, that's football. I like Moores, we all do. He isn't a complete kun..t like these two. He never promised anything he couldn't or wouldn't deliver.

4/ Barry for Alonso is hardly a big spend is it? We're looking at 2/3 mill difference, 5 at the most. that's chump change in today's game.

5/ I don't think he needs to change the way the team plays, at least not in a big way. Ged tried that at the end when things got desperate but he didn't know how to coach a team to play that way. Rafa has taken some small steps this off-season with the arrival of the two new full-backs (if Dossena ever signs) who are both alledged to be attacking players.

6/ I also think he will play a more settled line-up the first few months of the season this time around. I expect to see pretty much the same side and formation we finished up playing last season.

7/ I can't really see it to be honest. The mancs and chelsea are already VERY strong and yet they will both spend big this summer. I don't see how we are going to close the gap without BIG money OR some serious talent coming through the youth set-up.

by **Rush Job** » Mon Jun 16, 2008 12:27 am

lakes10 wrote:1. With the "gruesome twosome" in charge of the club, do you honestly think they'll leave the club in a finacial wreck and leave us finacially beyond recognition as a top club ?

A: No they will some how sell us for a lot of money

2. With money apparently being tight for the club to spend on players, would it then be percieved as the "gruesome twosomes" fault for not challenging for the title or Rafa's ?

A: Rafa, he has built a good team but not used it right

3. If David Moores was still in charge of the club, and bought Mascharano and Torres aswell as a few others, money permitting of course. And say we yet again failed to challenge for the title, would it be Moores' fault or Rafa's fault for challenging.

A: Rafa, he has only one thing on his mind , CL

4. Why do you think that Rafa is willing to sell Xabi Alonso, and recruit Barry when other areas of the team need more work on, what can you see in that, if money is so tight ?

A: to keep SG happy and to make sure he stays at the club.

5. Do you think that in order to challenge for the league next season we should adopt a more expansive game, and throw caution to the wind more, maybe acquiring more "flairy" type players in doing so. Or do you believe that Rafa's seemingly pragmatic approach to opponents week in week out will stand us i better stead for challenging ?

A. no we must more wide and sometime open the play up and put our back 4 at risk.

6. Will Rafa rotate us out of form and out of the title race before Novemeber (if that is the case). Or will he get the juggling act of the CL and the Prem right this season, in all, do you think he has learned anything from the previous two campaigns, and even more importantly do you think he'll act accordingly ?

A : Well thats the hard one, i hope that now sammy is at the club things might change, as for Rafa "learned anything" well no, he has a big head and feel he is right all the time, thats why we need Sammy.

7. Since Rafa has been here, have you seen any sign that he'll bring us number 19, and more importantly do you think he's the man to bring home number 19 ?

A: The Big shock is yes he can bring us the 19th, if and its a big if, he forgets about the CL for one year.

If we were to just forget about the CL we'd be fcked, if Rafa has favoured that comp its because without it and a decent run at that we wouldnt be speaking about winning the prem, more like staying in it. Like it or not we need the CL revenue and without it there would be no possible push for the prem.

by **Kharhaz** » Mon Jun 16, 2008 1:01 am

1) No. One of them will stay one will go. Hicks looks the more likely to get the club. At the minute we are a laughing stock because the two of them have different opinions.

2) Well we have the core of the team, and for me this is important. We have to take into account the costs of Torres and Mascherano, cost of the transfers and wages not only that the contracts offered to other players. Any team anywhere would struggle financially after a season of winning nothing. Except chelsea of course. So the buck would have to stop at rafas door for that.

3) If moores was still in charge we wouldnt have Torres or Mascherano. He was out of funds which is why he had no choice but to sell the club.

4) His interest in Barry has been made clear, however for me at least, I have seen nothing to suggest rafa wants rid of alonso, only rumours.

5) A settled team is a must. Cut out the mass rotation and already we are making progress.

6) We can all only hope that his stubborness has a limit and that he sticks with a more settled side.

7) Yes. We have the man to take us forward and to win no.19. If he loves the club as he says then there is no doubt as we are watching the euros rafa is working on no.19 as we speak ( or watch in this case! ).

by **Rush Job** » Mon Jun 16, 2008 1:20 am

Kharhaz wrote:If moores was still in charge we wouldnt have Torres or Mascherano. He was out of funds which is why he had no choice but to sell the club.

Wrong, if Moores was willing to sink the club in debt in the way the yanks have i dare say we'd have more money to spend on transfers than we have now. He sold the club to avoid spiralling debt and to ensure we got a new stadium but....... How can you still not have an understanding of this issue?

by **Kharhaz** » Mon Jun 16, 2008 1:27 am

Rush Job wrote:
Kharhaz wrote:If moores was still in charge we wouldnt have Torres or Mascherano. He was out of funds which is why he had no choice but to sell the club.

Wrong, if Moores was willing to sink the club in debt in the way the yanks have i dare say we'd have more money to spend on transfers than we have now. He sold the club to avoid spiralling debt and to ensure we got a new stadium but....... How can you still not have an understanding of this issue?

We would have one or the other, Torres or Mascherano, not both. Moores wasnt willing to sink the club into more debt and so he had to sell. Why cant you understand this issue? Or is it just easier to blame the yanks? Or indeed blame moores himself, "he sold out", no he didnt, he was at the point where he had to sell, he couldnt take LFC any further.

by **Rush Job** » Mon Jun 16, 2008 2:15 am

Kharhaz wrote:
Rush Job wrote:
Kharhaz wrote:If moores was still in charge we wouldnt have Torres or Mascherano. He was out of funds which is why he had no choice but to sell the club.

Wrong, if Moores was willing to sink the club in debt in the way the yanks have i dare say we'd have more money to spend on transfers than we have now. He sold the club to avoid spiralling debt and to ensure we got a new stadium but....... How can you still not have an understanding of this issue?

We would have one or the other, Torres or Mascherano, not both. Moores wasnt willing to sink the club into more debt and so he had to sell. Why cant you understand this issue? Or is it just easier to blame the yanks? Or indeed blame moores himself, "he sold out", no he didnt, he was at the point where he had to sell, he couldnt take LFC any further.

If Moores was willing to get the club in the kind of debt the yanks have i dare say we'd have Torres, Masch and Villa, put it this way if we under Moores got 200mill in debt the lion's share of that would have gone on transfers ( new stadia aside ), that wasnt the way he wanted to do things so he sold, now we're how much in debt? and how much do we have to spend? Unlike the mancs and chelsea our spending hasnt rose dramatically yet our debt has sored.

by **Kharhaz** » Mon Jun 16, 2008 2:18 am

Rush Job wrote:
Kharhaz wrote:
Rush Job wrote:
Kharhaz wrote:If moores was still in charge we wouldnt have Torres or Mascherano. He was out of funds which is why he had no choice but to sell the club.

Wrong, if Moores was willing to sink the club in debt in the way the yanks have i dare say we'd have more money to spend on transfers than we have now. He sold the club to avoid spiralling debt and to ensure we got a new stadium but....... How can you still not have an understanding of this issue?

We would have one or the other, Torres or Mascherano, not both. Moores wasnt willing to sink the club into more debt and so he had to sell. Why cant you understand this issue? Or is it just easier to blame the yanks? Or indeed blame moores himself, "he sold out", no he didnt, he was at the point where he had to sell, he couldnt take LFC any further.

If Moores was willing to get the club in the kind of debt the yanks have i dare say we'd have Torres, Masch and Villa, put it this way if we under Moores got 200mill in debt the lion's share of that would have gone on transfers ( new stadia aside ), that wasnt the way he wanted to do things so he sold, now we're how much in debt? and how much do we have to spend? Unlike the mancs and chelsea our spending hasnt rose dramatically yet our debt has sored.

But thats an "if". He had to make a choice, and I have no doubt he is regretting the choice he made.

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