Liverpool FC Forum

by **mart** » Sun Dec 09, 2007 11:03 pm

Imo the endless rotation debate is ruining any serious discussion of Liverpool as a club. Do we always have to resort to finding one scapegoat?

by **europian-kings** » Sun Dec 09, 2007 11:09 pm

i think rafa has got to realise that sissoko cant play for us!
we start attacking and he just gives it away to often.
i dont blame rafa for his roatation because i think he too is starting to realise who the better players are, but when you are playing sucsesfully with a 4-4-2 formation i don't see any reason to change it.
as soon as rafa realises sissoko is as usless as a condom with a hole in it, and as soon as he realises his mistake in selling igor biscan the better.....

by **sgs** » Sun Dec 09, 2007 11:24 pm

The problem with the Rafa critics here is not that they are waiting for things to go wrong. No sir! Its that they lack consistency. We know for a fact that rotation is a primary strategy of Rafa. When things go right, u cannot on one hand claim 'he got away with it' and then come back and lambast him for rotation when things go wrong. As Rafa himself says, in this game you have to use your head sometimes. You cannot on one hand say Sissoko is not Liverpool standard, yet ignore the obvious qualities he brings to pressing and ball recovery.

Whenever Liverpool gets a bad result the usual refrain is- 'there goes the season'. I never heard anyone say that when ManU was struggling or after they lost to Bolton. Less than 12hrs ago, we were 10pts adrift of Arsenal...Arsenal has now gone and lost to Boro. Is this then the beginning of the end of their season...

I started supporting 'Pool from high school back in Nigeria in the late 70s. Courtesy of the internet I am able to get a good feel of what other fans are like, even while based in the States. But with the fickle nature of some folks here, I sometimes truly regret that I am able to share this space. Its one thing to be passionate. But passion is no excuse for a lack of thinking (apologies to all Ricky Hatton fans)!

Rafa says this season will be different from any other; that all the top tier teams will drop points. Thus the games between them will take added significance. I believe the man. Nobody will run away with it by January; and we are still in it...

You can of course choose to believe or disbelieve. But in each case the least u can do is use your head, show consistency whatever may be your side of the arguement. Football may be a sport, but its not for the dumb!

Having said all this, if I had to choose- I'll wait for the end of the season...

by **username** » Mon Dec 10, 2007 12:56 am

Just as a note, you notice how at the start of the season, alot of people were saying "I hope we get knocked out so we can concentrate on the league" and now its "out of the 3 i would of prefered to lose to reading"...

damn you guys are fickle

by **holylamb2006** » Mon Dec 10, 2007 1:11 am

well in my opinion rafa just keeps contradicting himself he says torres can play three in a row then the 1st real tackle on torres he takes him off i dnt kno if that is over protecting him or he did get a knock but it didnt look like he got any injury..

gerrards a fit lad he can play three n a row he takes him off ....wen momo was trebbile to say the least he was our worst player on the night and i cant wait for the african nation cup so he can go to it i'm sorry but i would much rather 12 million for him shockin player and i dnt know how people can say that momo can play in the top teams .... harry kewell is having the best 4 games of his life and he gets dropped for what reason i dunno who else voronin takes his place instead of yossi and babel and voronin who equally had a shocking game
shouldnt be playing in this squad i think kuyt is much better than him

rafa said he was only concentrating on the reading game then after 70 mins of the game he decides to give up to a tem who is strugglein this season he (rafa) said we had to protect are big players for the next three games i dnt think this is right these players get paid between 100g - 150g each week and hey work out every day and rafa says they will get tired and again a bit of over protection u must concentrate on the games u are playng then the games next week now dnt get me wrong i want to win the marseille game but

the positives in the game is that we know who the weak links in the team are now :momo sissoko arbeloa and voronin they are the players who shuld be playing for reading and aston villa not for the greatest team in the world

benitez i really hope you pull through these next games and become a great manager for lfc the only thing i doubt is the way you pick teams .... if u were performing well and your confidence is high y should u be dropped all ur doing is dropping their confidence

i agree with sgs that everybody blames the rotation wen we lose but i'm just getting sick of benitez and his ability to choose a side to beat a reading team lets just say rafa underestimated reading

by **112-1077774096** » Mon Dec 10, 2007 1:17 am

Bad Bob wrote:
peewee wrote:
Ciggy wrote:
mantony2552 wrote:Its my name you retard michael antony. Oh i'm sorry perhaps you're better at explaining the unexplainable (rafa's tactics today) seeming you have 3000 posts, wow that makes you such a better fan than me, i must bow to your superior knowledge. I didn't say sack him either, I just meant he invites the criticism onto himself. If he's quite happy to accept the praise, he should also accept the criticism, or is he immune to it with fans like you so far up his a rse. So are you happy that he gave up on a premiership match 65 mins in, you must be. I supported him because I thought the americans were in the wrong, however i'm f uckin incensed today and i will criticise him if i see fit, so stick that in your pipe and smoke it you c ock sucking mother f ucker!

Whos this kunt?

and to think i got a card for no abuse, and this guy doesn't even get noticed by dumb and dumber

That's rich coming from the guy that said this about the WUM.

peewee wrote:whether he is a manc or not mick some of his comments are spot on

i fail to see how my comment is offensive, mick intimated he was a manc based on his post (not his offensive post, his earlier post) and i say they are spot on, i know how much for miss the blatantly obvious on here bob and thanks for giving us an insight into your ability to miss things and punish unwarranted things.

not that i should have to explain this, but sadly it appears everything has to be explained to you, i am surprised you never gave me another card as my post you quoted doesn't deserve one, but that never stopped you carding me yesterday

by **The_Rock** » Mon Dec 10, 2007 4:01 am

Torres 2007 wrote:losing one game is not a disaster. dont panic.

However, if we do not beat Marseille, and lose to the mancs, then that is more of a disaster. going out of the champions league and 9 points behind the scum is unassailable these days.

I also think some players in the current squad, are overated.

Mascherano is not worth 17m, end of. he doesnt surge forward, and doesnt offer anything that Didi Hamann wouldn;t offer.

We'd be lucky to get 17m for stevie g.

Kewell is not a great player IMO. he can run a bit but cannot beat players half the time.

Peter Crouch, I just dont rate him. Depsite his height, he was losing headed challenges. he sort of "crouches" forgive the pun, when he leaps, so his height is of no advantage. also, has no pace and cant dribble.

How can we have 3 strikers V reading and hardly create anything?

Whoa...........which planet you are from ?

Lucky to get 17 million for gerrard when chelsea wanted to pay 30 million for him 2 seasons ago ?

Mash not worth 17 million ? Carrick and Hargreaves are worth around that price....And Mash is better than both of them combined.

Kewell can run a bit ? Kewell can run rings around any player if he is fully math fit...........

R U a LFC fan in the 1st place

As for "How can we have 3 strikers V reading and hardly create anything?"...well u gotta ask Señor rafa for that....

When he plays crouch as a left attacker and voronin as a right attacker....it doesn't take a rocket scientist to notice that it will totally mess up our attack .....

by **jonnymac1979** » Mon Dec 10, 2007 4:42 am

peewee wrote:the newbie speaketh the truth

Still banned him though. He was a bit of a fucking weapon. Probably someone who's been banned before if I gave a fuck about checking the IP address. Which I don't by the way.

Probably from that ToffeeKipper website or whatever it's called.

Was going to start a thread on Sissoko. He's getting an awful lot of stick at the minute and let's be honest, he is playing s*i*e considering how he played during his first season with us. And fuck me, he was worth his weight in liquid 24 carat gold against Barcelona last season. The boy can do a job, and a good one at that. I don't care how bad he's playing at the minute.

There's debate to be had here.

Sissoko for me has been and is a diamond of a find. I personally think he's a top player and as usual Mick's spot on. It's down to confidence with Sissoko. He's lacking it at the minute I think, and it's clearly having an effect. Some might disagree and you are entitled to disagree. It just looks to me though that Sissoko is playing without confidence. It was interesting to watch Liverpool as a team when Gerrard was substituted against Reading. All of a sudden, you were posed a question. What do Liverpool do when Gerrard isn't there? Okay we still lost a game that on paper we should have won, but I thought he looked like he had a firework up his arse once Gerrard left the pitch, considering the consensus/message was clearly "We've lost this, let's not concede a 4th goal.". I thought Sissoko stepped up.

I sound daft here, like Im repeating what Mick has said, but yer, Lucas would just slot in without being noticed. Lucas is impressive in that respect, but you notice Momo's bad performances more because of the high standards he set himself with his previous contributions, when he was irreplaceable a short time ago. I know that Gerrard got the plaudits for the 2006 FA Cup Final, and rightly so, the man proves that he's the best midfielder around week in-week out, but Christ, Momo did a job that day as well mate.

by **jonnymac1979** » Mon Dec 10, 2007 5:01 am

Not calling you 'Christ' by the way Peewee. It's just how we talk in Scouse-land.

FYI For Harry Enfield followers, yes, we do say 'friggin' sometimes as well.

Anyone wants a training course on How To Be A Scouser, phone me, Ciggy or Leon. Leon charges £25 quid for extra tuition though for specific pronunciation of the word "lad". Worth it though. PM me for details. Free fake moustache and 'perm wig' with every booking. Shell-suits sold separately.

by **mungi** » Mon Dec 10, 2007 6:03 am

i think with sissoko he seems to me under pressure to produce motm performances. he needs to enjoy football again and this will ift his confidence.

by **112-1077774096** » Mon Dec 10, 2007 7:13 am

jonnymac1979 wrote:Not calling you 'Christ' by the way Peewee. It's just how we talk in Scouse-land.

FYI For Harry Enfield followers, yes, we do say 'friggin' sometimes as well.

Anyone wants a training course on How To Be A Scouser, phone me, Ciggy or Leon. Leon charges £25 quid for extra tuition though for specific pronunciation of the word "lad". Worth it though. PM me for details. Free fake moustache and 'perm wig' with every booking. Shell-suits sold separately.

you been on the sauce john

i am well aware of scouse speak having been born and raised and spent most of my life there, but cheers for explaining kidda

by **112-1077774096** » Mon Dec 10, 2007 7:17 am

jonnymac1979 wrote:
peewee wrote:the newbie speaketh the truth

Still banned him though. He was a bit of a fucking weapon. Probably someone who's been banned before if I gave a fuck about checking the IP address. Which I don't by the way.

Probably from that ToffeeKipper website or whatever it's called.

Was going to start a thread on Sissoko. He's getting an awful lot of stick at the minute and let's be honest, he is playing s*i*e considering how he played during his first season with us. And fuck me, he was worth his weight in liquid 24 carat gold against Barcelona last season. The boy can do a job, and a good one at that. I don't care how bad he's playing at the minute.

There's debate to be had here.

Sissoko for me has been and is a diamond of a find. I personally think he's a top player and as usual Mick's spot on. It's down to confidence with Sissoko. He's lacking it at the minute I think, and it's clearly having an effect. Some might disagree and you are entitled to disagree. It just looks to me though that Sissoko is playing without confidence. It was interesting to watch Liverpool as a team when Gerrard was substituted against Reading. All of a sudden, you were posed a question. What do Liverpool do when Gerrard isn't there? Okay we still lost a game that on paper we should have won, but I thought he looked like he had a firework up his arse once Gerrard left the pitch, considering the consensus/message was clearly "We've lost this, let's not concede a 4th goal.". I thought Sissoko stepped up.

I sound daft here, like Im repeating what Mick has said, but yer, Lucas would just slot in without being noticed. Lucas is impressive in that respect, but you notice Momo's bad performances more because of the high standards he set himself with his previous contributions, when he was irreplaceable a short time ago. I know that Gerrard got the plaudits for the 2006 FA Cup Final, and rightly so, the man proves that he's the best midfielder around week in-week out, but Christ, Momo did a job that day as well mate.

you dont become a bad player overnight, sadly for momo the spotlight is on him at the moment and any mistakes are multiplied as they are added to his recent mistakes.

feel sorry for the guy and i have slated him on here in the past, he needs to get a grip and get back to doing what he does best. i think part of the blame here has to be shouldered by rafa, momo scores one goal and rafa suddenly sees him as something akin to kaka and starts playing him as an attacking midfielder, sadly momo has minimal ball control or awareness on the ball, he is simply a destroyer and thats what he should be doing, not trying to go past people or pinging 40 yard balls into the stands

by **dawson99** » Mon Dec 10, 2007 9:24 am

blame has to lie at rafas feet. i said how important saturdays game would be, and rafa blew it.
its just bizarre how hes almost testing the owners to see if they will sack him. and like the commentators said, he did just give up with 20 minutes to go.

sorry but judging by saturday he aint the man to take us forwards, he eralyl needs to buck up his ideas. Arsenal losing yesterday as well just makes it more annoying, we could have made up valuable ground...

to be honest right now i couldnt give a monkeys about tomorrows game, i want the league... gimme an hour tho and it'll be marseille important all the way!!!

by **NJD83** » Mon Dec 10, 2007 10:24 am

Rafa has just got to stop wrapping our players in cotton wool, please, please just play our best team in our best formation when we can, change it when forced to not just to give them a rest they are getting payed a lot of money to play football not be given time off. We also need to forget about the next game and just get the bloody job done that is in front of them, if we had gone and beaten Reading with our strongest team (the one which will play against Marseille) our confidence would be sky high. I believe that when you are winning you don't get tired or need a rest as you are buzzing, only change it if our best team/formation isn't working. Lastly Voronin & Sissoko have to go in January please Rafa or they might just out stay you!!!!

by **Redman in wales** » Mon Dec 10, 2007 10:46 am

dawson99 wrote:blame has to lie at rafas feet. i said how important saturdays game would be, and rafa blew it.
its just bizarre how hes almost testing the owners to see if they will sack him. and like the commentators said, he did just give up with 20 minutes to go.

sorry but judging by saturday he aint the man to take us forwards, he eralyl needs to buck up his ideas. Arsenal losing yesterday as well just makes it more annoying, we could have made up valuable ground...

to be honest right now i couldnt give a monkeys about tomorrows game, i want the league... gimme an hour tho and it'll be marseille important all the way!!!

I kinda agree with Dawson here. Yes, I see the importance of wednesdays game, but we showed an enormous disrespect to reading, and Rafa got it wrong. The players on the pitch were capable of beating reading - but not in that formation. Its been said by many already, but you dont play 4-3-3 with crouch and voronin wide and with Gerrard, momo and masha.... there was no width what-so-ever. we looked uncomfortable and nothing seemed to flow. It was the wrong players for that system. if you dont want to start with yossi, kewell or Babel - then you can't play 4-3-3 - even kuyt's used to playing in a 4-3-3- for holland, but he didn't start either

Its not the end of the world, of course its not. But we're still full of 'ifs' at the moment - IF we beat utd, IF we win our game in hand. I dont think it much matters. Its games like reading where you build up 3 points at a time to challenge for the league.

I dont much care that arsenal lost either. IMHO I think utd will be the ones to beat come May and IF they beat us - they'll go 9 points ahead of us. Arsenal and Chelsea will lose a couple of players to the ACoN and as we're starting to see that Arsenal without Fabrigas and Van Persie are venerable - but utd, as always, are the ones to beat - and I'm not just talking about a match - i'm talking about the league table where games like reading count, as points mean prizes!

Liverpool FC Forum

What do you blame? - If you had to pick one thing or person?

What do you blame? - If you had to pick one thing or person?

Who is online