Liverpool FC Forum

by **bigmick** » Thu Oct 25, 2007 3:19 am

In fairness to Red, he is correct that Crouch hasn't been at the races this season. That said, the other two ain't good enough either which does leave us in the sh!t somewhat. While these may not be desperate times (and although two defeats in fifteen games sounds alright, it really doesn't truly reflect where we are) it may be the case that desperate measures are called for.

All things being equal I'd go with Crouch instead of one of the other two (definately instead of Voronin for me but whatever) but it seems that there has been some kind of fall-out so that won't happen. I'm not going to argue the t0ss on that one becasue I don't know the background, but it may be time to consider something radical, particularly if Torres isn't going to be fit for a bit.

By radical I think we could try Babel as a front man, or Lucas off the front man. We couldn't in all honesty do a lot worse than we are now with either option.

by **112-1077774096** » Thu Oct 25, 2007 3:21 am

redtrader74 wrote:
peewee wrote:
redtrader74 wrote:
Kharhaz wrote:
redtrader74 wrote:I don't think any of them are special, Kuyt had the confidence of scoring the winner, however it came about, in a very important game, it may have (before the result) seemed like a good idea for him to play. Voronin, may get better, its quite early, and was one of the better players on Saturday, so surely warranted his spot today. I don't see what Crouch offers in excess of Kuyt or Voronin, and in actuality has many weaknesses in comparison. I know he was top scorer last year, but hasn't looked like scoring this season even in his limited play time.

If his time on the pitch has been limited how can he be expected to score? or indeed look like scoring? He needs a couple of games running to get back to the form he showed last season. Start him against Arsenal he didnt do bad last season against them...

I expect apparently elite strikers to create, score, and take chances presented to them, in the games he has played he has missed headers completely, or put them in the stand. Where he did at least show effort last year he has failed to do so this year.

Like i said, the trio are all average, and therefore i don't see why anybody can be so sure that Crouch playing would have made todays result a positive one. It makes sense that players who have just had the high of playing and winning a derby might just have been in a better postion mentally to do well today.

i think whats being said is the two forwards on the pitch were not doing it so crouch should have been introduced much earlier, he couldn't have done any worse and to be fair he couldn't alter things whilst sat on the bench.

its about time rafa admitted his mistake with kuyt rather than persevere with him, and its about time crouch got a run in the team, like i say he cant do any worse than the other two

Fair enough, i don't understand the very late subs we have been having recently either, if we are going to give a player a chance then at least let them have 20-25 minutes.

Further up people wanted Crouch on from the start.

i can see their reasoning mate, he offers something very different to kuyt and voronin. the problem with crouch now though is that he hasnt been getting games and i am mystified as to why. i can see your point that he looks disinterested or he is not scoring, but the guy needs to be playing, i doubt he is even match fit at the moment as he has hardly played, its about time he got a run, kuyt isn't doing it, voronin is more of a threat than kuyt but the so is reina to be fair

i would like to see crouch get a run, after all the other two are not doing it so like i say he cant be any worse

by **Kharhaz** » Thu Oct 25, 2007 3:25 am

What about giving Craig Lindfield a go? Surely nows the time for one of the youngsters to step up?

by **account deleted by request** » Thu Oct 25, 2007 3:30 am

bigmick wrote:In fairness to Red, he is correct that Crouch hasn't been at the races this season. That said, the other two ain't good enough either which does leave us in the sh!t somewhat. While these may not be desperate times (and although two defeats in fifteen games sounds alright, it really doesn't truly reflect where we are) it may be the case that desperate measures are called for.

All things being equal I'd go with Crouch instead of one of the other two (definately instead of Voronin for me but whatever) but it seems that there has been some kind of fall-out so that won't happen. I'm not going to argue the t0ss on that one becasue I don't know the background, but it may be time to consider something radical, particularly if Torres isn't going to be fit for a bit.

By radical I think we could try Babel as a front man, or Lucas off the front man. We couldn't in all honesty do a lot worse than we are now with either option.

I agree with everything apart from Babel starting up front. He just doesn't look ready. Lucas is worth a try in my opinion, but hopefully it wont come to that, Torres should be fit for Sundays match and with Kewell playing tonight for the reserves(hopefully) he could always play second striker. To be fair even Kuyt, Veronin or Crouch should be ok in the short term with Torres.

by **redtrader74** » Thu Oct 25, 2007 3:31 am

I don't think either of your options are radical Mick. Babel has said he would like to play there, and with Kuyt dropping back so far he looks as though he is defence, why not play a midfielder in the advanced role, although i am not sure if he can do that role off the striker, what about Benayoun??

Maybe we should raid Spurs in Jan once Jol is given the elbow, Keane anyone....creative, pacy second striker??

by **bigmick** » Thu Oct 25, 2007 3:36 am

Kharhaz wrote:What about giving Craig Lindfield a go? Surely nows the time for one of the youngsters to step up?

No mate. With the greatest respect to yourself and Craig Lindfield, introducing youngsters is frankly the last thing we need to do right now. I maintain what I said in the topic starter, things aren't as bad as they probably looked in the Besiktas game and what we need right now is some calm reflection and cool heads.

We are definately entering a defining period of Rafa's tenure. Either we'll pull out of the slight tailspin we are into over the next couple of weeks or our season could practically be over. During those high pressure periods, you really need your tried and trusted leuitenants to be in the team. I would have thought that Rafa will be absolutely crossing everything right now hoping against hope that Alonso is fit for Arsenal. We can argue till the bovine homecoming ball about Masherano/Alonso but I would bet my life that Alonso would be Rafa's most trusted and loyal soldier.

If he is what we need, then I'll cross everything as well.

by **Bad Bob** » Thu Oct 25, 2007 3:39 am

I think Alonso must be fit, Mick, for Rafa to take him all the way to Turkey. Personally, I'll be crossing everything that Torres is fit for Sunday.

by **bigmick** » Thu Oct 25, 2007 3:41 am

redtrader74 wrote:Maybe we should raid Spurs in Jan once Jol is given the elbow, Keane anyone....creative, pacy second striker??

It's not my idea this creative second striker, I think Saint has the copyright on that one. Similarly, Keane as an option has been touted on here by many (Stu in particular) over a long period.

Having said all that, while neither of us Red would win any prizes for originality, if Keane were to turn up and play like he played at Anfield earlier this season then we would look mlike a completely different outfit to the one we are looking at now.

by **account deleted by request** » Thu Oct 25, 2007 5:34 am

Gambling manager fails to mind the gapTony Evans:

Every Rafael Benítez teamsheet is beginning to have the look of a suicide note. Leaving Fernando Torres out of Barclays Premier League matches – and then playing him in the Carling Cup – was eccentric. Deciding, in a match that had become vital against all the odds in what should be a routine Champions League group to qualify from, to start with Jermaine Pennant and Ryan Babel in midfield against Besiktas last night appeared the work of a manager who has lost sight of what he is aiming to achieve. It looked like a gamble. The last throw of the dice.

With three forward-looking players in the midfield, gaps were bound to occur for the home side to exploit. This was not balance; it smacked of a manager who does not trust his strikers to score.BenÍtez’s choices up front appear designed to bring succour to European opposition. AC Milan were shocked and delighted not to see Peter Crouch in Athens in the Champions League final in May. The home side last night must have been pleased to see the combination of Andrei Voronin and Dirk Kuyt.

One of the big Serie A clubs took a long look at Voronin before the scouts decided that he lacked application and heart. Kuyt is short of neither but the absence of a cutting edge in his play is starting to outweigh his attributes. Most worrying is a suggestion from some inside Anfield that being eliminated from this competition might not be a bad thing. What the logic behind this could be is anyone’s guess.

Perhaps it is thought that defeat last night will focus minds. Surely, though, that is the manager’s job. Wins from their three remaining matches would ensure they progress and victory over Arsenal on Sunday would sweep away any suggestion of a crisis. But it is time for BenÍtez to pick a team who will go out and kill off the opposition – not the hopes of the fans.

by **Scottbot** » Thu Oct 25, 2007 6:08 am

It was a horrible game to watch, it was a bit like the Pompey game for me. i just sat there frustrated pretty much from the off. Looking at the game in isolation, i thought we started brightly, created some early chances (like Saturday) but they got themselves a very lucky early goal and the confidence drained out of the team. I see yet another Hyppia must go thread has been started up, don't make him a scapegoat, outr problem is scoring goals not conceding them plus it was Carra who got caught from side for their goal along with a couple of other occasions. Movement was very poor last night, no-one really wanted the ball, the passing was slow and laboured and only Gerrard and Babel were willing to add a bit of space to our play.

As for Rafa, did he freeze on the touchline yesterday? It had a touch of the Champ League final about it. clearly it wasn't working but he didn't know what to do about it. Crouch on the bench for so long, Xabi travelling all that way but not playing?

Big big challenge ahead for the manager and a chance for us to see what he is really made of. Can he get us back up and running and playing the kind of football we saw at the start of the season? i hope so.

Still, i'm off to Amsterdam in about 10 minutes so i reckon i might be able to get this result outta my head in a couple of hours!

by **The_Rock** » Thu Oct 25, 2007 6:42 am

European teams don't really know how to play against crouch.... but rafa still insists on picking kuyt and voronin.

Kinda remind me of 2 seasons ago...when rafa kept picking morientes when cisse was scoring goals and was more of a threat.... :no

Stubborness will be the downfall of rafa....

This looks to be another "write-off" season....

by **tel** » Thu Oct 25, 2007 7:44 am

Rafa is a big believer in 2 players competiting for each position in order to keep them hungry and on their toes.

He needs a little competition for his own position.

by **Bretc** » Thu Oct 25, 2007 8:15 am

The behaviour of Rafa is starting to worry me. He reminds me of Houllier during his last days when he was so bloody stubborn. Rafa's rotational policy gotto stop or he will ruin his career at Anfield very very soon. It was his mistake for not signing a backup centre back as cover and leaving us with the aging Hyypia. Hyypia is a legend and I really appreciate his services over the years but clearly, he doesn't have the legs anymore to play in every match. I hope Agger will be back asap and we should let Hyypia retire honourably.

Another problem area - Sissoko. Yes, he can run all day long and put in courageous tackles BUT what is the point when he can't pass!!! Everytime he wins the ball back, he gives it back immediately to the opposition. And yet, Rafa sticks with him instead of giving Lucas a chance. Anyone with common sense knows that it's always logical to start with the form players and condemn the off-color players to the bench or reserves for them to wake up their ideas! It's also a motivation for the form players to keep on improving so as to stay in the team. What Rafa does is the reverse - there is no guarantee of a 1st team place even if one plays well. Long term wise, I dun think this is a good psychological strategy to motivate the team. Rotating for the sake of rotating is stupid. Rotate to cater to different opponents is also stupid in a way - We're Liverpool, why shld we worry about our opponents? We should play our in-form players and let them worry about us instead! :angry:

by **eds** » Thu Oct 25, 2007 8:20 am

The deluded Rafa apologists can make up all the excuses in the world but the sensible fans know that a loss on the weekend to the baby Gooners will probably be the first nail in the Spainards coffin as we would be 9pts adrift and more worrying falling further behind the Scum. So yeah ALL THE PRESSURE IN THE WORLD is on his shoulders and what he can deliver.

Having seen every single game we have played in the EPL this season, I am not confident at all. We were very lucky last week to get 3pts from Woodison, made even harder by Rafa's brain explosion in the 70th minute. We have been average against average sides and have been only a saved penalty away from having our "undefeated" run broken. That same "undefeated" run which so many of the apologists keep on harping about on this forum. Whoooopeeeeed FARKIN DO!

It would be interesting to see how many of these deluded Martians were the ones that stuck with Houllier in his last days, when all was lost. I bet that most of them are still well and truly on the "Rafa knows best, I am not listening to anyone else, NANANANANA blocking my ears, NANANANANA" ship.

As for the farkwits that are telling fellow supporters to fark off for pointing out that we are playing like a dog's breakfast.
You f**kers should all be lined up and shot. The supporters of this club are its soul not some overpayed foreign coach who has NO LOYALTY to this club outside his paycheck! When he goes you can all fark off to Real Madrid with him if you love him so much........

by **112-1077774096** » Thu Oct 25, 2007 9:11 am

eds wrote:The deluded Rafa apologists can make up all the excuses in the world but the sensible fans know that a loss on the weekend to the baby Gooners will probably be the first nail in the Spainards coffin as we would be 9pts adrift and more worrying falling further behind the Scum. So yeah ALL THE PRESSURE IN THE WORLD is on his shoulders and what he can deliver.

Having seen every single game we have played in the EPL this season, I am not confident at all. We were very lucky last week to get 3pts from Woodison, made even harder by Rafa's brain explosion in the 70th minute. We have been average against average sides and have been only a saved penalty away from having our "undefeated" run broken. That same "undefeated" run which so many of the apologists keep on harping about on this forum. Whoooopeeeeed FARKIN DO!

It would be interesting to see how many of these deluded Martians were the ones that stuck with Houllier in his last days, when all was lost. I bet that most of them are still well and truly on the "Rafa knows best, I am not listening to anyone else, NANANANANA blocking my ears, NANANANANA" ship.

As for the farkwits that are telling fellow supporters to fark off for pointing out that we are playing like a dog's breakfast.
You f**kers should all be lined up and shot. The supporters of this club are its soul not some overpayed foreign coach who has NO LOYALTY to this club outside his paycheck! When he goes you can all fark off to Real Madrid with him if you love him so much........

i like the cut of your gib

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