Liverpool FC Forum

by **Wilhelmsson** » Wed Aug 08, 2007 12:54 pm

I’m well aware you don’t need 11 top class players to win the league, this goes without saying, you need players who are playing their finest football and it’s important to have wingers who really can deliver on a consistent basis.

Pennant did not achieve this last season. The need for wingers to add more dimension, variety and effectiveness to the lacklustre attacking play Liverpool are confronted with is of crucial importance.

Ray Parlour was a talented player who forged a great partnership with Vieira; the example cannot be used here as Pennant is a winger. Pennant needs to be displaying higher and consistent levels of performance both mentally and physically this season, if he is to silence his critics and supply Liverpool with more creativity, which the teams play lacks in abundance.

The expectation point I was making was simply a prediction, for all I know Pennant might not have been phased by the overwhelming prospect of playing in the red jersey of Liverpool. Several posts identified a possibility of confidence being an issue, so I added what I thought to the discussion. If it’s accurate or inaccurate is irrelevant to the discussion.

Pennant was indeed a scapegoat last season, then again so was Reina, Gerrard, Sissoko and Alonso for much of last season. There will always be fans that do not approve of a particular player, no matter what the circumstances are. I constructively criticise players I deem to warrant criticism and vice versa.

It is a coincidence that Pennant’s form picked up around the time certain other players picked up, however a good player regains his form in his own time and not miraculously when his team mates does. Pennant is his own player and should be looking to self motivate himself and have the drive and conviction to improve his form when he is having a bad patch. He started to display this from January and hopefully can keep the consistent performances which have warmed me to him.

I accept your descriptions of Pennant’s abilities, I will not disagree which such a sentence/sentences, however he needs to add to his game to be a better player. If he can add to his game then he will have won more fans over and even the most ardent critic will have trouble picking faults.

As for jeering, it’s never nice, but it should act as a motivation tool to such players.

by **YAWL** » Wed Aug 08, 2007 1:13 pm

Wilhelmsson wrote:I’m well aware you don’t need 11 top class players to win the league, this goes without saying, you need players who are playing their finest football and it’s important to have wingers who really can deliver on a consistent basis.

Pennant did not achieve this last season. The need for wingers to add more dimension, variety and effectiveness to the lacklustre attacking play Liverpool are confronted with is of crucial importance.

Well he did after christmas, he was one of our most consistant performers.

Ray Parlour was a talented player who forged a great partnership with Vieira; the example cannot be used here as Pennant is a winger. Pennant needs to be displaying higher and consistent levels of performance both mentally and physically this season, if he is to silence his critics and supply Liverpool with more creativity, which the teams play lacks in abundance.

Ray Parlour was part of the Arsenal team that won the league as a wide player. Yes towards the end of his career he played in the centre. But before that he was used at right mid, in a midfield along with Overmars, Viera and Petit. So it's a perfect example.

The expectation point I was making was simply a prediction, for all I know Pennant might not have been phased by the overwhelming prospect of playing in the red jersey of Liverpool. Several posts identified a possibility of confidence being an issue, so I added what I thought to the discussion. If it’s accurate or inaccurate is irrelevant to the discussion.

Pennant was indeed a scapegoat last season, then again so was Reina, Gerrard, Sissoko and Alonso for much of last season. There will always be fans that do not approve of a particular player, no matter what the circumstances are. I constructively criticise players I deem to warrant criticism and vice versa.

Agreed.

It is a coincidence that Pennant’s form picked up around the time certain other players picked up, however a good player regains his form in his own time and not miraculously when his team mates does. Pennant is his own player and should be looking to self motivate himself and have the drive and conviction to improve his form when he is having a bad patch. He started to display this from January and hopefully can keep the consistent performances which have warmed me to him.

I don't think that is fair or true. Wingers have to be in a confident team, they have to get the ball in good positions. At the start of last season we were awful away from home. Everyone playing poorly, we can't have helped a new players such as Pennant. Put this together with the ridiclous booing he received, it can't have been easy.

I accept your descriptions of Pennant’s abilities, I will not disagree which such a sentence/sentences, however he needs to add to his game to be a better player. If he can add to his game then he will have won more fans over and even the most ardent critic will have trouble picking faults.

As for jeering, it’s never nice, but it should act as a motivation tool to such players.

I'm sorry but I disagree with jeering our own players. Infact it is totally wrong. It does nothing for their confidence, especially if they are a new player. I don't see how you can defend the booing he received, it was unjust and un-Liverpool.

by **Sean** » Wed Aug 08, 2007 1:39 pm

Pires and Ljungberg were prolific when Arsenal won the title in 02 and 04. When Chelsea won the league in 05 and 06, Robben and Duff chipped in with a share of the goals.. Ronaldo scored over twenty last season for United while Giggs also chipped in with a share.....I think ye know where i'm coming from.....By comparison, we've got Pennant and unfortunately the guy does not score and thats not good enough.

by **YAWL** » Wed Aug 08, 2007 1:47 pm

Sean wrote:Pires and Ljungberg were prolific when Arsenal won the title in 02 and 04. When Chelsea won the league in 05 and 06, Robben and Duff chipped in with a share of the goals.. Ronaldo scored over twenty last season for United while Giggs also chipped in with a share.....I think ye know where i'm coming from.....By comparison, we've got Pennant and unfortunately the guy does not score and thats not good enough.

I agree Pennant has to score more. But so does Alonso, Kewell, even Gerrard. Last season United's midfield scored 20 more goals than ours. Pennant is not the only one who needs to score more.

By the way Giggs only got around 4 goals last season, United also played with Richardson and Fletcher at times. The fact is Ronaldo scored a ridiculous amount of goals last season. I doubt he'll score as many this season, if he does it's going to be incredibly tough.

by **heimdall** » Wed Aug 08, 2007 2:36 pm

Pennant sucks, he can't cross the ball and since that is the primary function of a winger he is by definition sh1t!!

I am so :censored:

that we haven't bought any wingers in this transfer window, that is the reason why we won't win the league this season!!!

Rafa said he was going to buy wingers and he hasn't, and that makes me very :veryangry

by **stmichael** » Wed Aug 08, 2007 2:49 pm

He's earned the right to stay another season simply because he improved week-in week-out from Christmas onwards last season but he does have some serious flaws in his game and there's no point pretending otherwise. He's not that fast, and often has to go past a man a couple of times because they're fast enough to catch up to him again.

To suggest he can't cross is nonsense. He just hasn't got the consistency with his crossing. I'd put my house on him putting in more crosses than Lennon and SWP over the course of a season. The problem is, our movement in the penalty area is nothing short of woeful at times.

I thought we saw the best and worst of him in Athens, skinned defenders, got loads and loads of space to run into - but ultimately, his end product was sometimes woeful. We also saw the worst of Kuyt that night too - with half a dozen crosses planted on the penalty spot that he wasn't on the ball enough to attack. I think Pennant will fare better with a forward who actually attacks the box instead of Crouch (love the bloke mind) who hasn't go the pace to, and Kuyt who doesn't seem to have the inclination. As good as Torres is, I don't think heading is his forte either.

by **YAWL** » Wed Aug 08, 2007 3:30 pm

Pennant is not perfect I agree. He has faults in his game as do most players. He might not be dynamic like Lennon or SWP, however I agree with you he more often than not has a better final ball than the pair of them.

For people to say Pennant can't dribble, that is simply not true and where have you been the last 6 months. His game isn't really about dribbling though, it is about movement of his and others. He likes to pass and move and this means others have to do the same around him.

When they do we usually see the best of Pennant for example:-

Linking up with Kuyt vs Bolton for two of the goals.

Linking up with Arbeloa vs Arsenal for Crouch's first.

by **RedBlood** » Wed Aug 08, 2007 5:50 pm

pennant is going to be a big player for us this season you can see that in pre-season he has so much ability and is still a young player, i think he will make the england team this year if his form carrys on from christmas last season

by **red37** » Wed Aug 08, 2007 6:16 pm

Who gives a to$$ about England.

by **kunilson** » Wed Aug 08, 2007 6:19 pm

hope he does keep on improving and he has earned a season more to show his commitment...

but he should keep his mouth shut in front of the press, thats the one thing about him that has annoyed me....let others talk you up, dont do that yourself!

by **Wilhelmsson** » Wed Aug 08, 2007 6:28 pm

YAWL wrote:
Wilhelmsson wrote:I’m well aware you don’t need 11 top class players to win the league, this goes without saying, you need players who are playing their finest football and it’s important to have wingers who really can deliver on a consistent basis.

Pennant did not achieve this last season. The need for wingers to add more dimension, variety and effectiveness to the lacklustre attacking play Liverpool are confronted with is of crucial importance.

Well he did after christmas, he was one of our most consistant performers.

Ray Parlour was a talented player who forged a great partnership with Vieira; the example cannot be used here as Pennant is a winger. Pennant needs to be displaying higher and consistent levels of performance both mentally and physically this season, if he is to silence his critics and supply Liverpool with more creativity, which the teams play lacks in abundance.

Ray Parlour was part of the Arsenal team that won the league as a wide player. Yes towards the end of his career he played in the centre. But before that he was used at right mid, in a midfield along with Overmars, Viera and Petit. So it's a perfect example.

The expectation point I was making was simply a prediction, for all I know Pennant might not have been phased by the overwhelming prospect of playing in the red jersey of Liverpool. Several posts identified a possibility of confidence being an issue, so I added what I thought to the discussion. If it’s accurate or inaccurate is irrelevant to the discussion.

Pennant was indeed a scapegoat last season, then again so was Reina, Gerrard, Sissoko and Alonso for much of last season. There will always be fans that do not approve of a particular player, no matter what the circumstances are. I constructively criticise players I deem to warrant criticism and vice versa.

Agreed.

It is a coincidence that Pennant’s form picked up around the time certain other players picked up, however a good player regains his form in his own time and not miraculously when his team mates does. Pennant is his own player and should be looking to self motivate himself and have the drive and conviction to improve his form when he is having a bad patch. He started to display this from January and hopefully can keep the consistent performances which have warmed me to him.

I don't think that is fair or true. Wingers have to be in a confident team, they have to get the ball in good positions. At the start of last season we were awful away from home. Everyone playing poorly, we can't have helped a new players such as Pennant. Put this together with the ridiclous booing he received, it can't have been easy.

I accept your descriptions of Pennant’s abilities, I will not disagree which such a sentence/sentences, however he needs to add to his game to be a better player. If he can add to his game then he will have won more fans over and even the most ardent critic will have trouble picking faults.

As for jeering, it’s never nice, but it should act as a motivation tool to such players.

I'm sorry but I disagree with jeering our own players. Infact it is totally wrong. It does nothing for their confidence, especially if they are a new player. I don't see how you can defend the booing he received, it was unjust and un-Liverpool.

Jermaine Pennant was certainly one of the better players in the latter part of last season, I have admitted this and you’ll find I have not put forward a case against this ‘fact’.

Pennant however needs to continue this and a six month period has not convinced me that he has the qualities needed in order to a) become a class talent and b) help mould the team into a title winning side.

If Pennant can continue to deliver this level his current level of performance and improve his all-round game, then he will have won me over.

I stand corrected on Ray Parlour; I understand your point and agree with it. Though I still stand firmly behind my initial point about Pennant needing to display higher level of performance on a consist basis.

Wingers do need confidence; however players should be able to motivate themselves, this is a quality which is instilled in the finest human beings in all walks of life. I acknowledge that Liverpool was poor at the start of the season and this no doubt had an adverse effect on Pennant as did the jeering, but it’s up to Pennant to run through the wall and come out fighting on the other side, which he seems to be doing.

I do not advocate the jeering of players from the player’s clubs supporters, however this happens and a player needs to be able to take this on board and use it in a positive manner, by improving and silencing the critics. It should be seen a negative light, but it should also be channelled into a positive piece of motivation.

by **Wilhelmsson** » Wed Aug 08, 2007 6:32 pm

kunilson wrote:but he should keep his mouth shut in front of the press, thats the one thing about him that has annoyed me....let others talk you up, dont do that yourself!

I don’t have a problem with this as long the player in question can walk the walk (old cliché). If Pennant wants to shoot his mouth off in the press, that’s fine, sometimes it’s nice read such positive self belief, but if the player does not produce on the pitch, then that’s when I take exception.

by **kunilson** » Wed Aug 08, 2007 6:44 pm

Wilhelmsson wrote:
kunilson wrote:but he should keep his mouth shut in front of the press, thats the one thing about him that has annoyed me....let others talk you up, dont do that yourself!

I don’t have a problem with this as long the player in question can walk the walk (old cliché). If Pennant wants to shoot his mouth off in the press, that’s fine, sometimes it’s nice read such positive self belief, but if the player does not produce on the pitch, then that’s when I take exception.

self belief is important, and good to have....but i dont like our players doing that sort of thing in public. i dont think thats the sort of image for players at this club, maybe chelsea...

i remember him claiming he should play for England or be in the squad at least, back around November time last year....when he wasn't exactly playing sh.it hot...rafa backed him but i dont think even he believed that :;):

by **Wilhelmsson** » Wed Aug 08, 2007 6:48 pm

Pennant offers more going forward than SWP and Aaron Lennon, therefore I can see why it bothers him and he has a right to use the media in a tactical way to force himself into the England set up.

If he truly wants to represent England on the RW then now is his time to wipe the slate clean and an accomplished season will probably coat over some of his past problems and get him a few caps under his belt.

by **kunilson** » Wed Aug 08, 2007 6:51 pm

if he keeps on improving like he has done, i can see him getting into the England set up. whether that will be good for us tho is something im not sure about.

it could either give him the confidence to step up an extra level in his game and give us better performances....or he could go the michael owen route

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