Liverpool FC Forum

by **The Manhattan Project** » Sun Apr 29, 2007 8:47 am

Too injury prone.

Give it a few months and he'll sprain his hair in training.

by **99-1177832629** » Sun Apr 29, 2007 8:52 am

i think hith hair ith too long ath well.jutht like thendenth.although it ithnt blonde.

by **66-1112520797** » Sun Apr 29, 2007 8:59 am

cwith eubankth wrote:i think hith hair ith too long ath well.jutht like thendenth.although it ithnt blonde.

Pardon me ?

by **bigmick** » Sun Apr 29, 2007 11:03 am

Bamaga man wrote:Not wanting to cause an arguement or draw things out into this debate, but in your first paragraph you refer to Liverpool in the Chelsea game as lacking balance. Then in your second paragraph stand by the notion that Gerrard is still better wide.

Their slightly contradicting for me Mick, as the balance of the side largely went out the window when Gerrard goes and went wondering in that particular game. You pointed out the full backs, as the culprits. Well in the first half we were largely pinned back at times meaning Arbeloa couldnt get forward as much as would of liked. During the second half he did or at least tried, remember Xabi's overcooked pass to him as he was making the break forward ?
From what I've seen of Arbeloa he does like to get up and support the man infront of him most of the time, he has linked well with Pennant recently which has produced a couple of goals on occasions, but he could not do that atall against Chelsea as Gerrard goes off wondering leaving him isolated. Thus the balance becomes a problem its happened plenty of time when I've seen Gerrard out there.
You also say its easier for him to get into the game from out there, or at least into the final third. Again I disagree as all of my above post points out, because he cant get into the game he wonders, and goes searching for the ball as out wide its just not happening for him, and unlike Pennant its not natural to him.

I do think that the team lacked balance, and in my view it wasn't really because Gerrard played wide right, although it was a factor when you consider everything else.

Firstly and formostly, it seems to me to be unlikely that the Mashcerano/Alonso central midfield pairing is going to provide much in the way of attacking options and therefore balance. Not because neither of them personally offers much of a goal threat (even though neither of them do) but because both of them sit deep, effectively in a holding midfield role. Chelsea effectively played with three central midfielders, allowing Lampard to bomb on and keep our two occupied while Mikkel and Makeleli ensured we couldn't get anything going. I did on another thread go through the various options which could have given the team more balance against Chelsea, eventually plumping I think for Gerrard playing as a central midfielder/second striker with Pennant playing on the right, and with Crouch up top.

Now that seems like a contradiction but it isn't. With a more balanced central midfield pairing than the one we employed (Sissoko somewhere near his best and Alonso for instance) I still like Gerrard on the right. Like I say it's easier to get him into the game when he plays there. If however you play against a Chelsea team set up like it was the other night, you have to further consider your options. This is why I think Rafa was outmanoevred, I think he got it wrong and on this occasion, Mourinho got it right.

As for the two full-backs I thought they were very very poor. Both were the principal culprits for the goal (not Agger as many have claimed) and Arbeloa in particular had a very bad night indeed.

Now it's all ifs and and and pots and pans, and opinions are like erseholes in that everybody has one but that's mine. I do have a theory to back up pretty much most of my ramblings that I've left unexpained here, but wary of boring everybody to tears I've kept the detail quite short. Should anybody be in the slightest bit interested though, I can probably go on about it all a bit more should anybody ask.

by **Stu.Murph** » Sun Apr 29, 2007 11:12 am

Bamaga man wrote:
All that said, I don't think either Alonso or Masherano were too bad the other night. I actually have this theory which it's pointless going into right now that the difference between a really good team, or a really good team performance is very little in truth, just a couple of details. As I said earlier in another thread, I thought that other than the two full-backs who were both desperately poor, everybody else did kind of OK but the team just lacked balance, pure and simple. It's probably the first time I've ever said this but I think Rafa got outmanoevred by Mourinho and Chelsea were set up better.

One last point and in reference to something else Bamaga said earlier in the thread. He alluded to the fact that some people think that gerrard is better on the right, but they have now gone quiet. Just to reiterate my own position, I most certainly think Gerrard is a better player on the right. The reason as I've said many times is that he is easier to get on the ball inside the final third when he starts from there, and that's where he can do most damage. BTW he is of course, as Bamaga rightly points out, by a distance the most creative player in the team. Not necessarily by means of a fifty yard pass, but in the sense that he ceates more danger by a quite considerable margin than anybody else in the team, even Alonso.

Not wanting to cause an arguement or draw things out into this debate, but in your first paragraph you refer to Liverpool in the Chelsea game as lacking balance. Then in your second paragraph stand by the notion that Gerrard is still better wide.

Their slightly contradicting for me Mick as you mentioned in one the "team lacked balance, pure and simple", as the balance of the side largely went out the window when Gerrard went searching in that particular game from right mid. You pointed out the full backs, as the culprits, defensively they were no doubt about it. But in the first half we were largely pinned back at times meaning Arbeloa couldnt get forward as much as he would of liked. During the second half he did or at least tried, remember Xabi's overcooked pass to him as he was making the break forward ?
From what I've seen of Arbeloa he does like to get up and support the man infront of him, he has linked well with Pennant recently which has produced a couple of goals on occasions from the right, but he could not do that atall against Chelsea as Gerrard goes off searching leaving him isolated and having knowone to work with. Thus the balance and shape becomes a problem its happened plenty of times when I've seen Gerrard out there.
You also said its easier for him to get into the game from out there, or at least into the final third. Again I disagree as all of my above post points out, because he cant get into the game he goes searching, and A.Cole really kept him quiet out there. I think its easier for teams to mark him out of a game in right midfield, much easier than it is to pick his bursting runs from the center. Gerrard tends to go searching for the ball when its not happening for him out wide, and unlike Pennant its not natural to him, Pennant for all his downfalls holds a much better balance and shape to the team and provides real width.

Lacking balance does not only mean width and playing the same on both sides of the pitch.

It can mean a large number of things. Width is just a small detail. The balance between defence and attack, the balance between long and short passing, the balance in closing down as a unit... blah de blah de blah.

by **66-1112520797** » Sun Apr 29, 2007 11:23 am

Stu.Murph wrote:
Bamaga man wrote:
All that said, I don't think either Alonso or Masherano were too bad the other night. I actually have this theory which it's pointless going into right now that the difference between a really good team, or a really good team performance is very little in truth, just a couple of details. As I said earlier in another thread, I thought that other than the two full-backs who were both desperately poor, everybody else did kind of OK but the team just lacked balance, pure and simple. It's probably the first time I've ever said this but I think Rafa got outmanoevred by Mourinho and Chelsea were set up better.

One last point and in reference to something else Bamaga said earlier in the thread. He alluded to the fact that some people think that gerrard is better on the right, but they have now gone quiet. Just to reiterate my own position, I most certainly think Gerrard is a better player on the right. The reason as I've said many times is that he is easier to get on the ball inside the final third when he starts from there, and that's where he can do most damage. BTW he is of course, as Bamaga rightly points out, by a distance the most creative player in the team. Not necessarily by means of a fifty yard pass, but in the sense that he ceates more danger by a quite considerable margin than anybody else in the team, even Alonso.

Not wanting to cause an arguement or draw things out into this debate, but in your first paragraph you refer to Liverpool in the Chelsea game as lacking balance. Then in your second paragraph stand by the notion that Gerrard is still better wide.

Their slightly contradicting for me Mick as you mentioned in one the "team lacked balance, pure and simple", as the balance of the side largely went out the window when Gerrard went searching in that particular game from right mid. You pointed out the full backs, as the culprits, defensively they were no doubt about it. But in the first half we were largely pinned back at times meaning Arbeloa couldnt get forward as much as he would of liked. During the second half he did or at least tried, remember Xabi's overcooked pass to him as he was making the break forward ?
From what I've seen of Arbeloa he does like to get up and support the man infront of him, he has linked well with Pennant recently which has produced a couple of goals on occasions from the right, but he could not do that atall against Chelsea as Gerrard goes off searching leaving him isolated and having knowone to work with. Thus the balance and shape becomes a problem its happened plenty of times when I've seen Gerrard out there.
You also said its easier for him to get into the game from out there, or at least into the final third. Again I disagree as all of my above post points out, because he cant get into the game he goes searching, and A.Cole really kept him quiet out there. I think its easier for teams to mark him out of a game in right midfield, much easier than it is to pick his bursting runs from the center. Gerrard tends to go searching for the ball when its not happening for him out wide, and unlike Pennant its not natural to him, Pennant for all his downfalls holds a much better balance and shape to the team and provides real width.

Lacking balance does not mean width and playing the same on both sides of the pitch.

It can mean a large number of things. The balance between defence and attack, the balance between long and short passing, the balance in closing down as a unit... blah de blah de blah.

And also the real apparent lack of balance was over both flanks, infact the left wing certainly outweighed the use of the ball than the right did.

Therefore for me both flanks were not evenly balanced as ball distribution was finding its way out left most of the time. Coupled with the fact we lost shape and width when gerrard didnt hold a constant position.

With Gerrard on the right we lacked, Balance, shape and width!

I've just seen Micks explaination to the central mid balance which I understand and agree with. I also see what you are saying too Stu, but "balance' can almost be brought up anywhere on the pitch. Maybe in my other post, shape and width would of been better used therefore my post to Mick originally means feck all

by **Stu.Murph** » Sun Apr 29, 2007 11:25 am

Bamaga man wrote:
Stu.Murph wrote:
Bamaga man wrote:
All that said, I don't think either Alonso or Masherano were too bad the other night. I actually have this theory which it's pointless going into right now that the difference between a really good team, or a really good team performance is very little in truth, just a couple of details. As I said earlier in another thread, I thought that other than the two full-backs who were both desperately poor, everybody else did kind of OK but the team just lacked balance, pure and simple. It's probably the first time I've ever said this but I think Rafa got outmanoevred by Mourinho and Chelsea were set up better.

One last point and in reference to something else Bamaga said earlier in the thread. He alluded to the fact that some people think that gerrard is better on the right, but they have now gone quiet. Just to reiterate my own position, I most certainly think Gerrard is a better player on the right. The reason as I've said many times is that he is easier to get on the ball inside the final third when he starts from there, and that's where he can do most damage. BTW he is of course, as Bamaga rightly points out, by a distance the most creative player in the team. Not necessarily by means of a fifty yard pass, but in the sense that he ceates more danger by a quite considerable margin than anybody else in the team, even Alonso.

Not wanting to cause an arguement or draw things out into this debate, but in your first paragraph you refer to Liverpool in the Chelsea game as lacking balance. Then in your second paragraph stand by the notion that Gerrard is still better wide.

Their slightly contradicting for me Mick as you mentioned in one the "team lacked balance, pure and simple", as the balance of the side largely went out the window when Gerrard went searching in that particular game from right mid. You pointed out the full backs, as the culprits, defensively they were no doubt about it. But in the first half we were largely pinned back at times meaning Arbeloa couldnt get forward as much as he would of liked. During the second half he did or at least tried, remember Xabi's overcooked pass to him as he was making the break forward ?
From what I've seen of Arbeloa he does like to get up and support the man infront of him, he has linked well with Pennant recently which has produced a couple of goals on occasions from the right, but he could not do that atall against Chelsea as Gerrard goes off searching leaving him isolated and having knowone to work with. Thus the balance and shape becomes a problem its happened plenty of times when I've seen Gerrard out there.
You also said its easier for him to get into the game from out there, or at least into the final third. Again I disagree as all of my above post points out, because he cant get into the game he goes searching, and A.Cole really kept him quiet out there. I think its easier for teams to mark him out of a game in right midfield, much easier than it is to pick his bursting runs from the center. Gerrard tends to go searching for the ball when its not happening for him out wide, and unlike Pennant its not natural to him, Pennant for all his downfalls holds a much better balance and shape to the team and provides real width.

Lacking balance does not mean width and playing the same on both sides of the pitch.

It can mean a large number of things. The balance between defence and attack, the balance between long and short passing, the balance in closing down as a unit... blah de blah de blah.

And also the real apparent lack of balance was over both flanks, infact the left wing certainly outweighed the use of the ball than the right did.

Therefore for me both flanks were not evenly balanced as ball distribution was finding its way out left most of the time. Coupled with the fact we lost shape and width when gerrard didnt hold a constant position.

With Gerrard on the right we lacked, Balance, shape and width!

So you're saying Steven Gerrard had a poor game?

Fair do's.

by **kunilson** » Sun Apr 29, 2007 11:30 am

erm...i dont want woodgate, was wondering why this topic was 6 pages long considering its only Woodgate mentioned in the title, but its the whole alonso saga goin on here. interesting read, too far deep to get into :Oo:

by **66-1112520797** » Sun Apr 29, 2007 11:34 am

Stu.Murph wrote:
Bamaga man wrote:
Stu.Murph wrote:
Bamaga man wrote:
All that said, I don't think either Alonso or Masherano were too bad the other night. I actually have this theory which it's pointless going into right now that the difference between a really good team, or a really good team performance is very little in truth, just a couple of details. As I said earlier in another thread, I thought that other than the two full-backs who were both desperately poor, everybody else did kind of OK but the team just lacked balance, pure and simple. It's probably the first time I've ever said this but I think Rafa got outmanoevred by Mourinho and Chelsea were set up better.

One last point and in reference to something else Bamaga said earlier in the thread. He alluded to the fact that some people think that gerrard is better on the right, but they have now gone quiet. Just to reiterate my own position, I most certainly think Gerrard is a better player on the right. The reason as I've said many times is that he is easier to get on the ball inside the final third when he starts from there, and that's where he can do most damage. BTW he is of course, as Bamaga rightly points out, by a distance the most creative player in the team. Not necessarily by means of a fifty yard pass, but in the sense that he ceates more danger by a quite considerable margin than anybody else in the team, even Alonso.

Not wanting to cause an arguement or draw things out into this debate, but in your first paragraph you refer to Liverpool in the Chelsea game as lacking balance. Then in your second paragraph stand by the notion that Gerrard is still better wide.

Their slightly contradicting for me Mick as you mentioned in one the "team lacked balance, pure and simple", as the balance of the side largely went out the window when Gerrard went searching in that particular game from right mid. You pointed out the full backs, as the culprits, defensively they were no doubt about it. But in the first half we were largely pinned back at times meaning Arbeloa couldnt get forward as much as he would of liked. During the second half he did or at least tried, remember Xabi's overcooked pass to him as he was making the break forward ?
From what I've seen of Arbeloa he does like to get up and support the man infront of him, he has linked well with Pennant recently which has produced a couple of goals on occasions from the right, but he could not do that atall against Chelsea as Gerrard goes off searching leaving him isolated and having knowone to work with. Thus the balance and shape becomes a problem its happened plenty of times when I've seen Gerrard out there.
You also said its easier for him to get into the game from out there, or at least into the final third. Again I disagree as all of my above post points out, because he cant get into the game he goes searching, and A.Cole really kept him quiet out there. I think its easier for teams to mark him out of a game in right midfield, much easier than it is to pick his bursting runs from the center. Gerrard tends to go searching for the ball when its not happening for him out wide, and unlike Pennant its not natural to him, Pennant for all his downfalls holds a much better balance and shape to the team and provides real width.

Lacking balance does not mean width and playing the same on both sides of the pitch.

It can mean a large number of things. The balance between defence and attack, the balance between long and short passing, the balance in closing down as a unit... blah de blah de blah.

And also the real apparent lack of balance was over both flanks, infact the left wing certainly outweighed the use of the ball than the right did.

Therefore for me both flanks were not evenly balanced as ball distribution was finding its way out left most of the time. Coupled with the fact we lost shape and width when gerrard didnt hold a constant position.

With Gerrard on the right we lacked, Balance, shape and width!

So you're saying Steven Gerrard had a poor game?

Fair do's.

Your putting words into my mouth again Stu, like when you said I implied Lampard is a better creator of a player than Gerrard.

No, the reason Gerrards game wasnt tip top IMO was evident and has been before when his teamates fail to get him into the game from out wide, they fail to get him on the ball so therefore he cant do nothing with it. He didnt have a bad game but when the team cant get him involved he goes looking for action. He did that he tackled and tracked back well, but didnt have the impact on a game like we know he can and this is all IMO because he played or started out wide, but he still had a decent game.

I'm starting to sound like a broken record, I think I've made my point clear. But for the fear of driving myself insane with repetative posts I'll hold back now.

by **Stu.Murph** » Sun Apr 29, 2007 11:47 am

Bamaga man wrote:
Stu.Murph wrote:
Bamaga man wrote:
Stu.Murph wrote:
Bamaga man wrote:
All that said, I don't think either Alonso or Masherano were too bad the other night. I actually have this theory which it's pointless going into right now that the difference between a really good team, or a really good team performance is very little in truth, just a couple of details. As I said earlier in another thread, I thought that other than the two full-backs who were both desperately poor, everybody else did kind of OK but the team just lacked balance, pure and simple. It's probably the first time I've ever said this but I think Rafa got outmanoevred by Mourinho and Chelsea were set up better.

One last point and in reference to something else Bamaga said earlier in the thread. He alluded to the fact that some people think that gerrard is better on the right, but they have now gone quiet. Just to reiterate my own position, I most certainly think Gerrard is a better player on the right. The reason as I've said many times is that he is easier to get on the ball inside the final third when he starts from there, and that's where he can do most damage. BTW he is of course, as Bamaga rightly points out, by a distance the most creative player in the team. Not necessarily by means of a fifty yard pass, but in the sense that he ceates more danger by a quite considerable margin than anybody else in the team, even Alonso.

Not wanting to cause an arguement or draw things out into this debate, but in your first paragraph you refer to Liverpool in the Chelsea game as lacking balance. Then in your second paragraph stand by the notion that Gerrard is still better wide.

Their slightly contradicting for me Mick as you mentioned in one the "team lacked balance, pure and simple", as the balance of the side largely went out the window when Gerrard went searching in that particular game from right mid. You pointed out the full backs, as the culprits, defensively they were no doubt about it. But in the first half we were largely pinned back at times meaning Arbeloa couldnt get forward as much as he would of liked. During the second half he did or at least tried, remember Xabi's overcooked pass to him as he was making the break forward ?
From what I've seen of Arbeloa he does like to get up and support the man infront of him, he has linked well with Pennant recently which has produced a couple of goals on occasions from the right, but he could not do that atall against Chelsea as Gerrard goes off searching leaving him isolated and having knowone to work with. Thus the balance and shape becomes a problem its happened plenty of times when I've seen Gerrard out there.
You also said its easier for him to get into the game from out there, or at least into the final third. Again I disagree as all of my above post points out, because he cant get into the game he goes searching, and A.Cole really kept him quiet out there. I think its easier for teams to mark him out of a game in right midfield, much easier than it is to pick his bursting runs from the center. Gerrard tends to go searching for the ball when its not happening for him out wide, and unlike Pennant its not natural to him, Pennant for all his downfalls holds a much better balance and shape to the team and provides real width.

Lacking balance does not mean width and playing the same on both sides of the pitch.

It can mean a large number of things. The balance between defence and attack, the balance between long and short passing, the balance in closing down as a unit... blah de blah de blah.

And also the real apparent lack of balance was over both flanks, infact the left wing certainly outweighed the use of the ball than the right did.

Therefore for me both flanks were not evenly balanced as ball distribution was finding its way out left most of the time. Coupled with the fact we lost shape and width when gerrard didnt hold a constant position.

With Gerrard on the right we lacked, Balance, shape and width!

So you're saying Steven Gerrard had a poor game?

Fair do's.

Your putting words into my mouth again Stu, like when you said I implied Lampard is a better creator of a player than Gerrard.

No, the reason Gerrards game wasnt tip top IMO was evident and has been before when his teamates fail to get him into the game from out wide, they fail to get him on the ball so therefore he cant do nothing with it. He didnt have a bad game but when the team cant get him involved he goes looking for action. He did that he tackled and tracked back well, but didnt have the impact on a game like we know he can and this is all IMO because he played or started out wide, but he still had a decent game.

I'm starting to sound like a broken record, I think I've made my point clear. But for the fear of driving myself insane with repetative posts I'll hold back now.

I'm just pointing out you contradict yourself.

Your reasons for Gerrard being more creative was if we need a goal or him setting a goal up.

So I put forward the Lampard arguement.

Now you're saying we lacked balance because Gerrard played on the right (last season he played there most of the time and we hardly ever lacked balance), a wide midfielders job is to give balance, if you don't do your job you have a poor game do you not?

You've then expanded that he played well but its his teamates fault for not giving him the ball in a wide area to hurt us... So you're effectively saying his its his teamates responsibility for the lack of width?

I'm confused.

by **bigmick** » Sun Apr 29, 2007 11:54 am

My thing is that if the set-up and balance of the team isn't right, then the individual parts contained within find it very hard to function to anywhere near their maximum. Hence without the balance and with the screener in front, we couldn't get Gerrard on the ball. I'll come back to this at the end. Football at the highest level though is a little like that scissors, rocks and blanket game (or whatever the feck you call it) in that the way other teams set up against you has a direct effect on the way you are able to play.
I've long had this theory that when Chelsea don't have the ball, the key to unbalancing their defensive set-up is to disturb the triangle which is formed between Makeleli and the central defenders. If you are not very careful, your strikers end up contained within the confines of a very tight isosoles shape and getting the ball into them becomes bordering on impossible, and retaining it once it gets in there out of the question. Makeli simply turns around and pickpockets the ball from the feet or off the chest of the centre forward, that's if Terry or Carvalho don't steal it on the way in.
If you get the balance right though, you can disturb it by having a striker with pace running the channels or a midfielder marauding in behind enemy lines and distorting the shape. Unfortunately on Wednesday Bellamy had desperate trouble getting into the game, partly because he got (unluckily) given offdside a couple of times, and partly becasue our central midfield lacked any depth (in that Alonso and Masherano were standing next to each other) and therefore it was very difficult to get an angle to slip him in. I would also like to have seen Crouch, as at least with him you can feed it over the top of Makeleli and Mikkel, it gives you a bit of an out ball. Crouch but not central would work for me, in between the full-back and where the central defender would normally stand.

As for the screener, I've seen it a few times now that people have noticed Zenden recieved the ball more often than Gerrard. I would venture that was not by any means an accident as far as Chelsea were concerend, they would after all far prefer the Dutchaman milkfloating down the left touchline with the ball than they would Gerrard bombing down the right, even with the excellent Cole in attendance. Most of the time it was Lampard when they got fully set who screned Gerrard from view, standing ten to fifteen yards in front of him and in between the ball carrier and our captain. On the odd accasion we sprung posession, Mikkel was doing it. The result is that when Mascherono or Alonso looked up they saw Gerrard marked by Cole and with another blue shirt in between them and him, whereas Bolo was positively crying out to be given the ball on the left. It's not a coincidence, it's good defensive thinking and it requires a team who can move the ball forward with fluidity and balance to overcome it. Don't write off Sissoko please, at his best he is the most destructive midfield player in the premiership to such systems.

by **66-1112520797** » Sun Apr 29, 2007 11:58 am

I'm just pointing out you contradict yourself.

Your reasons for Gerrard being more creative was if we need a goal or him setting a goal up.

So I put forward the Lampard arguement.

Now you're saying we lacked balance because Gerrard played on the right (last season he played there most of the time and we hardly ever lacked balance), a wide midfielders job is to give balance, if you don't do your job you have a poor game do you not?

You've then expanded that he played well but its his teamates fault for not giving him the ball in a wide area to hurt us... So you're effectively saying his its his teamates responsibility for the lack of width?

I'm confused.

Am I talking to a three year old ?

He didnt keep balance and rarely has this season on the right, and do me a favour forget about last season its over. We're talking about the present.

Okay, how do I explain this to somebody who gets easily confused

Earlier on this season, when Pennant didnt even appear to be on the pitch. He would just stay out wide and almost hide or ghost through games. He never went looking for the ball, maybe then he did lack the confidence just to go searching for it. Gerrard doesnt or never has that problem, if he is being starved of the ball out wide and is failing to make an impact on the game, he wont stay out there and hide, he'll try and do something about it, which is a good thing but can also be a bad thing. As I've seen Finnan exposed by oncoming wingers and a fullback which have doubled up on him while Gerrard has gone roaming, thats the problem it causes. Gerrards work ethic is their, but being disciplined enough to stay in position sometimes isnt and thats why I dont think he should be deployed out wide, although he does work hard in terms of looking to make something happen.

by **66-1112520797** » Sun Apr 29, 2007 12:08 pm

As for the screener, I've seen it a few times now that people have noticed Zenden recieved the ball more often than Gerrard. I would venture that was not by any means an accident as far as Chelsea were concerend, they would after all far prefer the Dutchaman milkfloating down the left touchline with the ball than they would Gerrard bombing down the right, even with the excellent Cole in attendance. Most of the time it was Lampard when they got fully set who screned Gerrard from view, standing ten to fifteen yards in front of him and in between the ball carrier and our captain. On the odd accasion we sprung posession, Mikkel was doing it. The result is that when Mascherono or Alonso looked up they saw Gerrard marked by Cole and with another blue shirt in between them and him, whereas Bolo was positively crying out to be given the ball on the left. It's not a coincidence, it's good defensive thinking and it requires a team who can move the ball forward with fluidity and balance to overcome it. Don't write off Sissoko please, at his best he is the most destructive midfield player in the premiership to such systems.

But surely in that well written post Mick you have identified why Gerrard shouldnt start in RM. If he starts in the center he can coast or manouvre he was into gaps being exposed, also from that position I think he's harder for a team genrally to pick up, harder anyway than being out wide. Even if that means going out wide to support Pennant, or run the channel between center half and full back. I think having him in the center means he can not only come from deep which he's world class at but can look or run or pass left or right in order to open something up.

BTW good post Mick.

by **bigmick** » Sun Apr 29, 2007 12:08 pm

In fairness though Bm I actually think that Gerrard went looking for the ball the other night to get round the screen in front of him. Unfortunately, he simply walked into the Makeleli Mikkel axis. He was effectively strangeld out of the game.
Also ot's worth bearing in mind that he went walkabout on this occasionfairly safe in the knowledge that Ashley Cole wasn't going to venture over the hlaf-way line. In actual fact Chelsea committed very few people forward all night, there were only two players involved in the goal for example, which makes it all the more infuriating that firstly Riise decided to go walkabout while the score was 0-0 in the away leg of a Champions League semi-final, and that Arbeloa who only had to stay awake and in front of one player, singularly failed to do so.

by **bigmick** » Sun Apr 29, 2007 12:15 pm

Bamaga man wrote:But surely in that well written post Mick you have identified why Gerrard shouldnt start in RM.

Well I certainly think if you are going to play Alsonso and Mascherano centrally against Makeleli, Mikkel and Lampard, and Zenden on the left with Kuyt and Bellamy up top, Gerrrard shouldn't start on the right, no.
If however you play Sissoko and Alonso, with Riise wide left and Crouch uptop with prferably Bellamy upsides, you could play Gerrard wide right then becuase it would be much harder to screen him out. I think though that if Chelsea are going to set up like that at Anfield (which they probably will) I'd play Gerrard as the farthest forward of a central three, with Pennant wide right and Crouch up top. ind anybody to play left-back and play Riise wide left and we may be able to win it. I still like Gerrard wide right though if the team is set up right.

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