Liverpool FC Forum

by **Ciggy** » Tue Apr 03, 2007 6:07 am

Dr. Jekyll" and "Mr.Hyde

Is the perfect way to describe the LFC players, and is the main reason we have not won the premiership yet.
How can our team play like they did against Arsenal yet a week before they where awful against Villa, that Villa game was unreal it was probably the worst Liverpool performance we have witnessed since we got beat by Southampton two seasons ago when Crouch scored 2 against us.
Alan Hansen said on MOTD after that game worst Liverpool performance in 17 years got met with groans and moans from fans and manager but he was not far from the truth.

We also put in bad performances at the start of this season due to rotation and world cup burn out we wernt ready atall at the start of this season due to that World Cup and new players coming in it damaged us badly, due to us playing CL qualifiers so early on the season before some of our players only had like a 3 week break and they where worn out.

Now on saturday we looked fresh full of energy (Gerrard apart due to saving Englands skin a few days before) like a team of new players, maybe the rotation early on paid off but to late for any title challenge or 2nd place finish.

Two bad performances again the bitters them kunts took 4 points off us this season and that other shower 6 points when they deserved 3 we totally played them off the park at Anfield only for them to get that sucker punch winner from John O'Shea same thing the season before from Ferdinand dying minute winner.

Totally controlled Chelsea at SB before they beat us 2-0 same story couldnt convert our chances.
Failure to break down resiliant defences in the prem when they come to Anfield for a draw.

The difference between us and Chelsea and Man U they never give up searching for that last minute winner, something that we fail to do year in year out.
I dont think we have won a game from a last minute goal this season infact I cant remember the last time we did.

Another pointer shit at corners when Gerrard takes them see the difference on saturday Aurelio has a sweet left foot and Pennant takes a good corner aswell, its time for Gerrard to stop taking the ball away and deciding to take them himself theres more chance of him scoring in and around the box rather than taking corners.

One plus from this and last season we are no longer a one man team, which is good news all round not just all the focus being on Gerrard and not just relying on him to score our goals and get us out the shit.

Which takes me back to this Dr. Jekyll" and "Mr.Hyde thing if we can beat Barca at the Camp Nou, beat Arsenal 4-1, infact on out day beat anyone in one off games.
Why can we not do it over 38 games?
Our we still missing that few extra quality players?
Is it the managers fault?
Is it our current squad of players fault?

I dont think we are that far away from the title in personel terms and maybe the problem is in the last 3rd two quality wingers even though Pennant has been playing well lately think he just could'nt believe his luck at being here.
Gonzales isnt ready yet but I have a feeling he will come good with exprience plus injuries havent helped him settle in yet.
And one more prolific goal scorer.
The defence is great, Reina is great, midfield best in europe.
The final third is where the problem is.
This summer Rafa will be able to buy who he wants and not settle for his 3rd or 4th option.

So maybe depending on what happens with Kewell we may only need 2 or 3 quality players with hunger, energy and a passion to win.
And no more of this " Jekyll and .Hyde" mentality.

Thats when number 19 will be ours once we get rid of this we will be the most feared club on the planet again.
And no one will relish playing against us ever again.

And for now CMON U MIGHTY REDMEN TONIGHT, WE ARE ON OUR WAY TO LIFTING NUMBER 6 IN A COMPETITION THAT NO ONE WANTS TO MEET US IN.

by **Woollyback** » Tue Apr 03, 2007 8:23 am

i think there are 2 main points - one is that we need a better strikeforce, it's as simple as that. in bellamy and crouchy we have 2 good strikers (crouch on his day can be magnificent as we've just seen) but over the duration of a season they're not at the level that's going to win us the league. robbie is clearly past his best. kuyt is the only striker we have who'd have a chance of being picked in a chelsea/man utd side. we desperately need to get ourselves an owen, fowler or rush who's just guaranteed to score for fun all season. we haven't had that since owen lost his form & fitness a few years ago. heskey was a fat useless lummox and cisse was a flop. and the less said said about baros the better.

other teams have that little bit of confidence when playing against us as they know even if they get bossed all over the park we just don't have that razor-sharp attack that gives defenders the jitters. imagine defending against chelsea knowing that tw@t drogba's gonna be breathing down your neck right til the last second?

my second point is that it depends on who we're playing and this has been the case for the last few seasons - we play much better against the big sides as they're more prepared to open up and give us a game of football and allow the likes of alonso, mascherano etc to show their class. compare that to playing alehouse sh*tehawks like bolton or the bluesh*te, or the sheff utds and fulhams of this world who just play for a 0-0. we don't have the sharpness up front to finish those teams off. this season has been doubly disappointing given the results against chelsea and particularly man utd where we bossed the game and still lost

i've no doubt we'll be shopping in the summer and a first class striker has to be one of the top priorities. i won't lose any sleep if bellamy goes - he's not that good and he's a horrible little sh*t. i don't want crouchy to go though - he's a great bloke, a great team player and can do a job for us, if not week in week out. robbie will be going in the summer but i think we just have to accept that

by **stmichael** » Tue Apr 03, 2007 1:44 pm

Watched the Villa against the bluesh#te last night. Villa are truly shocking. If we'd actually gone at them the other week we'd have walked all over them.

As for most of our away games early season. That attitude has to change next season regardless of any new signings.

by **club_Levis** » Tue Apr 03, 2007 2:21 pm

Ciggy wrote:.

The difference between us and Chelsea and Man U they never give up searching for that last minute winner, something that we fail to do year in year out.
I dont think we have won a game from a last minute goal this season infact I cant remember the last time we did.

........thats not the only difference, they also have better players offensively.Agree with most part of your thread though, But not as puzzled.To unlock tight defences you need skill and pace something we have been lacking.Hardworking?I dont doubt the lads e.g Kuyt, Sissoko, Crouchy to name but a few.The magic I saw on Crouch's 3rd goal is what you need consistently...will he repeat it frequently? Iam not sure.

That is why am worried when I keep hearing romours on Bellamy leaving in the summer..most fresh ones yesterday indicatin Aston Villa bid for 7 million He is the only striker with genuine pace in the team after Cisse departure.Selling him would be a step backward.

by **RedRoots** » Tue Apr 03, 2007 5:40 pm

club_Levis wrote:
Ciggy wrote:.

The difference between us and Chelsea and Man U they never give up searching for that last minute winner, something that we fail to do year in year out.
I dont think we have won a game from a last minute goal this season infact I cant remember the last time we did.

........thats not the only difference, they also have better players offensively.Agree with most part of your thread though, But not as puzzled.To unlock tight defences you need skill and pace something we have been lacking.Hardworking?I dont doubt the lads e.g Kuyt, Sissoko, Crouchy to name but a few.The magic I saw on Crouch's 3rd goal is what you need consistently...will he repeat it frequently? Iam not sure.

That is why am worried when I keep hearing romours on Bellamy leaving in the summer..most fresh ones yesterday indicatin Aston Villa bid for 7 million He is the only striker with genuine pace in the team after Cisse departure.Selling him would be a step backward.

I won't lose any sleep if we lose bellamy over the summer and 7million would be fine by me, it's all well and good having pace but it's useless without the final product as was proven with Cisse and Gonzalez this year. I'd much rather keep Crouch, pace can be replaced but it's hard to find what Crouchy offers up front.

by **Stu.Murph** » Tue Apr 03, 2007 5:52 pm

Lack of quality is the problem. End of.

by **Stu.Murph** » Tue Apr 03, 2007 7:25 pm

Ciggy wrote:Gonzales isnt ready yet but I have a feeling he will come good with exprience plus injuries havent helped him settle in yet.
And one more prolific goal scorer.
The defence is great, Reina is great, midfield best in europe.
The final third is where the problem is.
This summer Rafa will be able to buy who he wants and not settle for his 3rd or 4th option.

I have to question what you've seen in Gonzalez that just about EVERYONE has missed? I'm really curious and would love to hear your reasoning.

I also find if laughable you say our defence is "great", Reina is "great" and our midfield is "the best in europe"...

Take the rose tinted specs off. If we're as good as you say we aren't then why aren't we top of the league and storming everything?

The answer... because we're nowhere near as good as you say we are.

by **Ciggy** » Tue Apr 03, 2007 10:16 pm

Stu.Murph wrote:
Ciggy wrote:Gonzales isnt ready yet but I have a feeling he will come good with exprience plus injuries havent helped him settle in yet.
And one more prolific goal scorer.
The defence is great, Reina is great, midfield best in europe.
The final third is where the problem is.
This summer Rafa will be able to buy who he wants and not settle for his 3rd or 4th option.

I have to question what you've seen in Gonzalez that just about EVERYONE has missed? I'm really curious and would love to hear your reasoning.

I also find if laughable you say our defence is "great", Reina is "great" and our midfield is "the best in europe"...

Take the rose tinted specs off. If we're as good as you say we aren't then why aren't we top of the league and storming everything?

The answer... because we're nowhere near as good as you say we are.

Thought you where banned? So why are you here?

by **Sabre** » Tue Apr 03, 2007 10:35 pm

I also find if laughable you say our defence is "great", Reina is "great" and our midfield is "the best in europe"...

Take the rose tinted specs off. If we're as good as you say we aren't then why aren't we top of the league and storming everything?

The answer... because we're nowhere near as good as you say we are.

FWIW Stu, we're likely to be in the best four of the most relevant competition in Europe, so Ciggy might have a point. A clean sheet and three goals away in a CL quarter of finals, is not something that anyone can do.

by **zarababe** » Tue Apr 03, 2007 10:40 pm

Ciggy wrote:
Stu.Murph wrote:
Ciggy wrote:Gonzales isnt ready yet but I have a feeling he will come good with exprience plus injuries havent helped him settle in yet.
And one more prolific goal scorer.
The defence is great, Reina is great, midfield best in europe.
The final third is where the problem is.
This summer Rafa will be able to buy who he wants and not settle for his 3rd or 4th option.

I have to question what you've seen in Gonzalez that just about EVERYONE has missed? I'm really curious and would love to hear your reasoning.

I also find if laughable you say our defence is "great", Reina is "great" and our midfield is "the best in europe"...

Take the rose tinted specs off. If we're as good as you say we aren't then why aren't we top of the league and storming everything?

The answer... because we're nowhere near as good as you say we are.

Thought you where banned? So why are you here?

Lord no.. is is stu the busy decorator

by **Stu.Murph** » Tue Apr 03, 2007 11:37 pm

Ciggy wrote:
Stu.Murph wrote:
Ciggy wrote:Gonzales isnt ready yet but I have a feeling he will come good with exprience plus injuries havent helped him settle in yet.
And one more prolific goal scorer.
The defence is great, Reina is great, midfield best in europe.
The final third is where the problem is.
This summer Rafa will be able to buy who he wants and not settle for his 3rd or 4th option.

I have to question what you've seen in Gonzalez that just about EVERYONE has missed? I'm really curious and would love to hear your reasoning.

I also find if laughable you say our defence is "great", Reina is "great" and our midfield is "the best in europe"...

Take the rose tinted specs off. If we're as good as you say we aren't then why aren't we top of the league and storming everything?

The answer... because we're nowhere near as good as you say we are.

Thought you where banned? So why are you here?

Why not?

by **tubby** » Wed Apr 04, 2007 1:24 pm

Stu.Murph wrote:
Ciggy wrote:
Stu.Murph wrote:
Ciggy wrote:Gonzales isnt ready yet but I have a feeling he will come good with exprience plus injuries havent helped him settle in yet.
And one more prolific goal scorer.
The defence is great, Reina is great, midfield best in europe.
The final third is where the problem is.
This summer Rafa will be able to buy who he wants and not settle for his 3rd or 4th option.

I have to question what you've seen in Gonzalez that just about EVERYONE has missed? I'm really curious and would love to hear your reasoning.

I also find if laughable you say our defence is "great", Reina is "great" and our midfield is "the best in europe"...

Take the rose tinted specs off. If we're as good as you say we aren't then why aren't we top of the league and storming everything?

The answer... because we're nowhere near as good as you say we are.

Thought you where banned? So why are you here?

Why not?

Because hes bored of Football manager now

Only kidding Stu. You can never get bored of that!!!

by **Stu.Murph** » Wed Apr 04, 2007 2:35 pm

bavlondon wrote:
Stu.Murph wrote:
Ciggy wrote:
Stu.Murph wrote:
Ciggy wrote:Gonzales isnt ready yet but I have a feeling he will come good with exprience plus injuries havent helped him settle in yet.
And one more prolific goal scorer.
The defence is great, Reina is great, midfield best in europe.
The final third is where the problem is.
This summer Rafa will be able to buy who he wants and not settle for his 3rd or 4th option.

I have to question what you've seen in Gonzalez that just about EVERYONE has missed? I'm really curious and would love to hear your reasoning.

I also find if laughable you say our defence is "great", Reina is "great" and our midfield is "the best in europe"...

Take the rose tinted specs off. If we're as good as you say we aren't then why aren't we top of the league and storming everything?

The answer... because we're nowhere near as good as you say we are.

Thought you where banned? So why are you here?

Why not?

Because hes bored of Football manager now

Only kidding Stu. You can never get bored of that!!!

I have unforunately.

The tactical side of it is a joke.

Bloody sliders to instruct players what to do...

Tell you what Stevie, ----------|- I want you play that much of an attacking game today and I want you to close down this much ------/----... :laugh:

by **stmichael** » Sun Apr 08, 2007 1:18 pm

Rafa has clearly made a number of significant errors this season domestically, and to say he hasn't is to be in denial. In terms of Rafa's errors, I don't think it can be argued that he's got a problem translating his European expertise into the league campaign. He's produced unacceptably slow starts in each of his three seasons and rotation has been the common factor. He needs to settle the side and build a rhythm of results before he starts tweaking things. It also can't be argued that he is very cautious with his tactics away from home in the league and that those tactics have been a relative failure from the results and performances they've produced. This caution is reflected in his struggle to make successful attacking signings, in direct contrast to his defensive ones. It's a caution I don't understand as he is never so cautious in Europe where we play with a controlled aggression away from home that has consistently upset the very best sides we've faced.

The idea that he did not have the money to sign better players is just not true, either: he could easily have kept Cisse and Crouch and used the money from the disappointing Kuyt, Bellamy and Pennant to bring in one top player - maybe Alves, if that's who he wanted. The bottom line is that he wanted to change the entire squad far too quickly, when he should have focused on a rapid change to the team. There were players already at the club who could have done the squad job rather than be replaced by others who weren't significantly better. I'm not saying that people like Cisse were the answer; I'm just saying why release one fast, but relatively ineffective striker at a significant loss, to bring in another who scores even less? Why not keep Cisse to do the same job for another year until you can afford someone better?

Having made all those criticisms, it also has to be said that Rafa has shown the ability to grind out results in the league, albeit not quite at the level required for a title challenge (which is all I think anyone can reasonably expect; you can't expect the title as there are other factors - like United and Chelsea - that are beyond our control). He has also won us two great trophies with great victories in finals and got more out of Steven Gerrard last season than any other manager has ever done.

In my opinion, there's no point heaping the criticisms on him any more this season: the league situation is as good as settled now and we have got the very real possibility of the European Cup to play for. However, I think the time for excuses is at an end. He will finally have the resources he's asked for to bolster the squad he created, playing with the tactics and training methods he established. I think he should have oversight of the youth set-up, but that is irrelevant to the immediate future of the first team, and therefore a side issue. In short, he must put in a sustained title challenge next season or face the pressures and potential consequences of not doing so. We need to be neck and neck going into the last five games of next season, not twenty points off the pace. After that, it's down to the players' character, but anything less would be unacceptable to me.

by **dawson99** » Sun Apr 08, 2007 1:28 pm

Its not about ability. its about belief and grafting.

look at cheatski this term, they have looked woeful, but they graft out the results. we need to believe in ourselves and it will come. we got the players to be a LOT closer than where we are right now.

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