Liverpool FC Forum

by **Sabre** » Mon Oct 23, 2006 11:28 am

Perhaps it's just me, but it seems to me that nowadays people know less about football than they used to.

I'm not talking only about this forum, but virtually every other forum I read.

20 years ago people didn't have the chance to see as many game in TV as they have now. You might think that the more games available to watch, the more knowledge you could get about football, but it seems to me that's not what's happening.

I don't know if it's because I was impressed when I was younger about some footie chats I could hear in the stadium before the game started, but nowadays I don't read/hear comments like that.

I see too many player descriptions as it was a computer football game. People talk about players as it was fúcking Football Manager game, "he's an 8 in finishing, he's an 6 in tackling" and so on. That's bóllocks.

I also notice that when a player makes a couple of little good tricks with the ball in his foot, he's rated, and when he doesn't he's criticised. People mostly criticise a player when he has the ball.

In all fairness, when I hear Anfield I cannot say they're this kind of impatient supporter. It was for instance great to hear the Kop away chanting Luis Garcia, when he was having a bad game, that's what supporting is about, isn't it?.

Anfield is a crowd that I'm proud of and a example for the world,of even in those days in which I think less football is known. I'm asking more about the general fans surrounding the club, the kind of comments ou can hear in a pub when talking about footie, or the kind of things you can read here.

So my shout is, less football manager!!!! Less highlights!!! More watching children and low category games under the rain!!!

I just wanted to know what do you think about this. Does people know more about football than 20 years ago? I think no, and that having more games available at TV.

by **NiftyNeil** » Mon Oct 23, 2006 11:38 am

What it is Sabre, is that everyone thinks that he or she is an expert. We are constanly bombarded with football matches, analysis, opinion, stats, PC/console games etc. Everyone these days has an opinion about tactics, rotation, selection. Even the old lady in the street will give you an opinion on last nights game.

It's not that people know less about football, it's that the half wits know more about football - but not ebough to make sound judgements.

by **66-1112520797** » Mon Oct 23, 2006 11:45 am

Bring back Stu-the-red he knows more than most

by **Sabre** » Mon Oct 23, 2006 11:51 am

NiftyNeil, I think you're spot on and I hadn't thought it that way. Perhaps it's that more people talks about footie now that in the past.

As for Stu the red, I don't miss his manners, but I do miss some of his footie comments. Not that he was always right, though.

by **66-1112520797** » Mon Oct 23, 2006 11:57 am

As for Stu the red, I don't miss his manners, but I do miss some of his footie comments. Not that he was always right, though.

He did liven the place up, and certainly would of put some of these posters in there place thats for sure.
He was a knowledgable guy but was never right :;):

by **Bad Bob** » Mon Oct 23, 2006 7:36 pm

Diplomatic of you not to implicate posters on this board Sabre but the evidence, unfortunately, is there for all to see in the posts over the last day. To take the most ludicrous example, the posters calling for Alonso to be dropped because his supposedly only skill--passing--is not unlocking defenses these days is just ignorant. Ditto those who think that he doesn't help the team out defensively.

People need to actually concentrate on watching Alonso play and see just how much he does for the team that is subtle, understated, difficult to spot but ever so vital. The lad shields our defense first and foremost, tracking runners through the midfield and denying them the ball. Forget tackling for a minute--which he is very good at--he does his most impressive work when he denies the player the ball by proper positioning in the first place. Then, when he is called upon to make the tackle he often does so simply and effectively rather than in a showy, go-to-ground sort of way. He is a sublime holding midfielder (a task Sissoko is simply not up for, by the way) that snuffs out most danger before most of us are even aware of it.

Going forward, we all can point to the long-range guided missile passes that unlock defenses and Alonso certainly has that in his locker. But those supporters looking for him to unleash those types of passes every 2-3 minutes are living in dreamland. So much depends on the defensive shape and the runs that his teammates are making. It's no point having Xabi curl a 40-yarder to the edge of the 18 yard box if there's no one to run onto it. No, most of Alonso's value going forward is in making himself available for the simple outlet ball (which he does superbly) and then moving the team forward with simple passing. Since he only has control of the first pass, however, it's not his fault when the move breaks down because Garcia or Sissoko or Pennant or Gonzales or Gerrard concedes possession. If you must find a scapegoat for our indifferent form in midfield how about focusing on the players that actually lose the ball on a semi-consistent basis?

Bottom line, Alonso has been the player that makes our team tick over the past two seasons. He does his job effectively, with a minimum of fuss and he simply does not deserve the kind of casual disregard he's been getting on this board for months now. Watch him play, learn his role and appreciate what he brings to the team--especially now that the rest of the midfield seems to be coming unstuck around him--and you'll find that selling Xabi is about the silliest recommendation to emerge from the latest round of hysteria (next to sacking Rafa, of course). :nod

by **red37** » Tue Oct 24, 2006 12:13 am

couldnt agree more BB. it seems this relatively recent 'discovery' of teams deploying the midfield defensive holding/screening role has gone largely unappreciated by the supporters as a whole... not one of the 'fashionable' jobs you could say. we had our own fine exponent of that position leave the club over the summer, yet properly to be replaced.

but the work Alonso covers is both priceless and key in allowing the others to progress forward. he is the pivotal fulcrum of most of the play that develops and is absolutely vital to this teams ethic.

by **flombs** » Tue Oct 24, 2006 12:31 am

As the saying goes, different courses for different horses. This is what makes this and other forums lively and makes interesting debate. Some say drop or sell Alonso and they are right to say so then the others say dont be a mother :censored:

idiot you stupid :censored:

! how can you drop or sell Alonso, he is one of the best midfielders we have. Well, if we all agreed it wouldnt be too interesting.
You are right sabre, alot of people dont have much of an idea about football or the club, then alot of people get emotional when they see LFC getting beat most weeks and then just scraping through when they do win.
We have one of the best managers in the world on our side and some of the best and brightest talent fielded on the pitch wearing the Liverbird on their hearts, so whats going wrong?
I have thought about it for sooo long that my brain feels like the Gaurdion knot.

by **vlady16.1** » Tue Oct 24, 2006 12:46 am

sabre: couldn't agree more and i think you hit it on the head-- with so many games on i think that people tend to 'watch highlights' and not the game-- now there seems to be a proliferation of 'flashy' players who get great press who aren't functionally sound but make every highlight reel. i really see this in all sports yet "fans" have no clue of the downside. score 20 goals - great-- do the dirty work -- useless and we all know the players that really make things go like didi or macallistar never get their due. to me its the dumbing down of the general population as a whole

by **Lando_Griffin** » Tue Oct 24, 2006 1:10 am

Bad Bob wrote:Diplomatic of you not to implicate posters on this board Sabre but the evidence, unfortunately, is there for all to see in the posts over the last day. To take the most ludicrous example, the posters calling for Alonso to be dropped because his supposedly only skill--passing--is not unlocking defenses these days is just ignorant. Ditto those who think that he doesn't help the team out defensively.

People need to actually concentrate on watching Alonso play and see just how much he does for the team that is subtle, understated, difficult to spot but ever so vital. The lad shields our defense first and foremost, tracking runners through the midfield and denying them the ball. Forget tackling for a minute--which he is very good at--he does his most impressive work when he denies the player the ball by proper positioning in the first place. Then, when he is called upon to make the tackle he often does so simply and effectively rather than in a showy, go-to-ground sort of way. He is a sublime holding midfielder (a task Sissoko is simply not up for, by the way) that snuffs out most danger before most of us are even aware of it.

Going forward, we all can point to the long-range guided missile passes that unlock defenses and Alonso certainly has that in his locker. But those supporters looking for him to unleash those types of passes every 2-3 minutes are living in dreamland. So much depends on the defensive shape and the runs that his teammates are making. It's no point having Xabi curl a 40-yarder to the edge of the 18 yard box if there's no one to run onto it. No, most of Alonso's value going forward is in making himself available for the simple outlet ball (which he does superbly) and then moving the team forward with simple passing. Since he only has control of the first pass, however, it's not his fault when the move breaks down because Garcia or Sissoko or Pennant or Gonzales or Gerrard concedes possession. If you must find a scapegoat for our indifferent form in midfield how about focusing on the players that actually lose the ball on a semi-consistent basis?

Bottom line, Alonso has been the player that makes our team tick over the past two seasons. He does his job effectively, with a minimum of fuss and he simply does not deserve the kind of casual disregard he's been getting on this board for months now. Watch him play, learn his role and appreciate what he brings to the team--especially now that the rest of the midfield seems to be coming unstuck around him--and you'll find that selling Xabi is about the silliest recommendation to emerge from the latest round of hysteria (next to sacking Rafa, of course).

Well thank Christ for that.

I thought I was on my own in saying this!

Thankyou Bad Bob - how did I know it would be you who'd agree with me!?!

by **Lando_Griffin** » Tue Oct 24, 2006 1:13 am

flombs wrote:As the saying goes, different courses for different horses. This is what makes this and other forums lively and makes interesting debate. Some say drop or sell Alonso and they are right to say so then the others say dont be a mother idiot you stupid ! how can you drop or sell Alonso, he is one of the best midfielders we have. Well, if we all agreed it wouldnt be too interesting.
You are right sabre, alot of people dont have much of an idea about football or the club, then alot of people get emotional when they see LFC getting beat most weeks and then just scraping through when they do win.
We have one of the best managers in the world on our side and some of the best and brightest talent fielded on the pitch wearing the Liverbird on their hearts, so whats going wrong?
I have thought about it for sooo long that my brain feels like the Gaurdion knot.

Opinions don't change the facts, though.

Selling Alonso would be suicide. He is our most important player, and I believe Rafa would sell the entire squad to keep Xabi.

No amount of opinions will change his worth.

by **flombs** » Tue Oct 24, 2006 1:39 am

Mate i agree selling Alonso or getting rid of Raffa would be suicide and a long step backwards for the club. Lando you speak with alot of emotion and humour but i agree with what your saying.
I was reading on another topic that you would rather sell Gerrard than let the club revolve around him. I deffo agree with you on that as well. Nobody is bigger than the club, if his heart isnt in it then he should probably go. I would rather keep Alonso and Raffa than Gerrard IF that was the case.

by **Lando_Griffin** » Tue Oct 24, 2006 1:53 am

Good!

I wish more people would see it like that aswell, but as you say - you can't change opinions, even if they're wrong.

by **Bad Bob** » Tue Oct 24, 2006 2:39 pm

Lando_Griffin wrote:
Bad Bob wrote:Diplomatic of you not to implicate posters on this board Sabre but the evidence, unfortunately, is there for all to see in the posts over the last day. To take the most ludicrous example, the posters calling for Alonso to be dropped because his supposedly only skill--passing--is not unlocking defenses these days is just ignorant. Ditto those who think that he doesn't help the team out defensively.

People need to actually concentrate on watching Alonso play and see just how much he does for the team that is subtle, understated, difficult to spot but ever so vital. The lad shields our defense first and foremost, tracking runners through the midfield and denying them the ball. Forget tackling for a minute--which he is very good at--he does his most impressive work when he denies the player the ball by proper positioning in the first place. Then, when he is called upon to make the tackle he often does so simply and effectively rather than in a showy, go-to-ground sort of way. He is a sublime holding midfielder (a task Sissoko is simply not up for, by the way) that snuffs out most danger before most of us are even aware of it.

Going forward, we all can point to the long-range guided missile passes that unlock defenses and Alonso certainly has that in his locker. But those supporters looking for him to unleash those types of passes every 2-3 minutes are living in dreamland. So much depends on the defensive shape and the runs that his teammates are making. It's no point having Xabi curl a 40-yarder to the edge of the 18 yard box if there's no one to run onto it. No, most of Alonso's value going forward is in making himself available for the simple outlet ball (which he does superbly) and then moving the team forward with simple passing. Since he only has control of the first pass, however, it's not his fault when the move breaks down because Garcia or Sissoko or Pennant or Gonzales or Gerrard concedes possession. If you must find a scapegoat for our indifferent form in midfield how about focusing on the players that actually lose the ball on a semi-consistent basis?

Bottom line, Alonso has been the player that makes our team tick over the past two seasons. He does his job effectively, with a minimum of fuss and he simply does not deserve the kind of casual disregard he's been getting on this board for months now. Watch him play, learn his role and appreciate what he brings to the team--especially now that the rest of the midfield seems to be coming unstuck around him--and you'll find that selling Xabi is about the silliest recommendation to emerge from the latest round of hysteria (next to sacking Rafa, of course).

Well thank Christ for that.

I thought I was on my own in saying this!

Thankyou Bad Bob - how did I know it would be you who'd agree with me!?!

You've been banging the drum the loudest but you're certainly not alone, mate. Xabi Alonso is crucial to our success, end of.

by **Ace Ventura** » Tue Oct 24, 2006 2:54 pm

Bad Bob wrote:You've been banging the drum the loudest but you're certainly not alone, mate. Xabi Alonso is crucial to our success, end of.

He is still off form at the moment, although he is not alone.
I actually would take him out of the team for the Villa game, i know he will come good but i want to see the skipper back in the centre.
Alonso just looks like he needs a break, he played alot of games last season, then the world cup and we came back pretty handy because of the champions league qualifier and charity shield.
His passing has been off this season, and while i agree that he is a vital player he would benefit from a small spell on the bench.

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