Liverpool FC Forum

by **The Manhattan Project** » Sat Jul 15, 2006 9:26 pm

David Cameron is living in a deluded world, as I told him when I e-mailed the Tories regarding his visit to a glacier in Norway (and then tore apart his website spokesperson when she tried to defend him).

The hoodie wearing segment of society aren't committing anti-social behaviour (IE: CRIME) because they are deprived and misunderstood. Far from it.

They do it for three reasons:

1- It's considered fashionable and cool to be "violent" and "dangerous".

2- The police have been weakened to such an extent by the lawmakers and policy writers of this nation, that the criminal element of this society know fully well that no serious punishment will be faced as a consequence of their actions.

The criminals know all the loopholes. Their lawyers know how to manipulate weak laws and judges who are social activists, who believe that the "softly softly" approach is best, largely because politicians and judges in this nation are isolated from the realities of society. They approach everything from a "theoretical" point of view, rather than realistic pragmatism.

3- Poor parenting. Often the parents are more violent and anti-social than their hoodie wearing children. Bad parents = bad children. The chav underclass breed too quickly. A thinning of the herd is required.

by **kazza 1** » Sat Jul 15, 2006 10:08 pm

The Manhattan Project wrote:
3- Poor parenting. Often the parents are more violent and anti-social than their hoodie wearing children. Bad parents = bad children. The chav underclass breed too quickly. A thinning of the herd is required.

I cant really comment on the "chav underclass" as you have called them. In Northern Ireland its only starting to surface here. So I have not had much contact with it. But I know in Great Britian as a whole it is a very large problem, though much worse in parts of England. But I do understand about the bad parents part.
Over here as most people know we have our own organisations. They have kids and because of the way the parents connected behave the kids think that it is ok to minic what their parents are doing. They dress the same and wear the large gold jewelery, support the same football clubs and have the same feelings towards other religons that their parents do.
I do believe that they have more children than most people, but I dont think its down to being an underclass. I think its down to the fact that the more kids you have the more money the Goverment give you. I also think that parents dont really have the time for their kids either. For those parents that do work, they are working every hour God sends to earn a decent living to give their kids the life they never had and to get them the clothes etc everyone else is wearing. Hence kids whose parents do have money, turn into some sort of chav. So I dont think all "chav's" are an underclass.
I would also be interested in how you think they should thinned out?? You cant go out and cull them. They are living people just like you and me. But as some one said earlier in the thread, something like a chemical castration should be used until they understand that you cant live like they do.
I also think they should bring back National Service. Give them a bit of the hard life and make then do 4 years in the army weather they like it or not.

by **The Manhattan Project** » Sun Jul 16, 2006 12:23 am

My use of the term "underclass" doesn't really refer to the poor, but rather a segment of society who contribute very little and are the source of much of the anti-social behaviour that plagues British cities. More along the lines of the "lumpenproletariat".

Like you said, many chavs are quite wealthy. I agree. Which goes to what I said earlier about that kind of behaviour being a sign of a "fashion" rather than poverty factors.

I would "thin the herd" by taking away the incentives that much of these people have for having more children. Like you mentioned, they get handouts. Which encourages them. Benefits and welfare should be offered only to those who truly need it. Not the spongers.

What I would suggest for helping the situation is allowing children at a younger age to leave school, say before GCSE's. These children would be encouraged into non-skilled labour forces, or given training in vocational qualification areas like mechanics, electricians, plumbing, etc...skills that they can use in the marketplace, while the more intellectual children can pursue their education unhindered by those children who really aren't interested in academia.

Not sure about the National Service though. Generally I prefer a entirely volunteer armed forces. It's best to have people among the ranks who actually want to be there. Although a volunteer National Service could be established. Maybe something along the lines of the Duke Of Edinburgh award or a more advanced form of organisations like the Scouts.

by **taff** » Sun Jul 16, 2006 1:07 am

Im at a crossroads to be honest. I hated the Thatcher Govt and the creation of the underclass. I come from a mining town in the South Wales Valleys and remember 80% unemployment if you can believe that, sometimes it seems far fetched to me and I lived through it.

I would rather Blair to any blue even If I think he's been a tit and I like to think I believe in tolerance and the socialist ideal but Ive also been badly behaved

I know the views of my mates and wanted to know the views of my mates on this site. I suppose this is the learning curve of life etc but am genuinely concerned that there doesnt seem to be a moral line that we dont cross anymore

by **Lando_Griffin** » Sun Jul 16, 2006 3:12 am

Well I'd still give the fecker's a good hidning if it were legal.

BTW Taff - are you related to Cheshire Blair? You must be if you'd rather he stay in office rathe rthan have a Tory in power!!

I'd rather have a f*cking dog turd in power than that useless tw*t.

by **Kharhaz** » Sun Aug 27, 2006 2:13 am

Ive got 2 boys, 8 and 10 and they are well behaved, they are not rude to others and they are by all means perfect kids. They havent always been, at times they behaved like little arrogant bullies who think they are the best. I slapped it out of them, i fed them with the understanding and i can say im an ace parent ! The government or whoever can say "ohhh no dont slap ya kids it wont work !" save it for your kids when they grow up to be spoilt little brats who demand respect because there rich, my boys will live there life on an estate where attitude really does mean everything, they are tall for there age and they are very strong but they wont grow up to be the little w*****s that we see in our streets now, they will be the men who will put a stop to this.

This is the view of many on our streets, bad parenting breeds unfit children.

by **66-1120597113** » Sun Aug 27, 2006 2:35 am

Kharhaz wrote:Ive got 2 boys, 8 and 10 and they are well behaved, they are not rude to others and they are by all means perfect kids. They havent always been, at times they behaved like little arrogant bullies who think they are the best. I slapped it out of them, i fed them with the understanding and i can say im an ace parent ! The government or whoever can say "ohhh no dont slap ya kids it wont work !" save it for your kids when they grow up to be spoilt little brats who demand respect because there rich, my boys will live there life on an estate where attitude really does mean everything, they are tall for there age and they are very strong but they wont grow up to be the little w*****s that we see in our streets now, they will be the men who will put a stop to this.

This is the view of many on our streets, bad parenting breeds unfit children.

Can you teach them how to sentence??

No disrespect matey but if they cant write a sentence,they're not very smart regardless of size?

Or is being the biggest and baddest man on the estate your fatherly pinnacle for them?
I've been there :nod

by **Des** » Sun Aug 27, 2006 9:08 am

I blame the parents. When i was a nipper brother, I had to be home sharp at a certain time set by my parents. Now kids get set a time and they arent allowed home until that time.

whats all that about I say? It needs to be nipped in the bud early, or its all a waste of time.
My estate is patrolled by a paramilitary group of young men, who will happily baseball bat you unconcious if you step out of line.They are the law, and with all the bad points about these groups, they do have their good points as well. One phone call and they are right on hand.

For serious crimes,they will happily shoot you if you dont leave the country in 24 hours. I know they are not everyones idea of law and order but id hate to live here just relying on the police.

by **48-1119859832** » Sun Aug 27, 2006 3:07 pm

Kharhaz wrote:This is the view of many on our streets, bad parenting breeds unfit children.

Whilst I agree with that, aspects such as divorce, failure at school and peer pressure from their friends can also lead to many children falling out of line. Another thing that doesn't help is stereotyping, if you see a teenager with a hood on down your street with a ciggarette in his mouth many people automatically think "ah that's lads trouble, I had better keep away" or "He's lowlife scum". It's this kinda isolation as well that lead Children off the rails, people need to feel excepted inorder to stay in line, the moment many youngsters feel that they aren't being listened to or they are outcasts of society, is the moment that trouble can arise.

I also don't like the media stereotype of hooded youngsters as well, the trashy rags will happily take a photo of a young lad in a park walking along, minding his own business and then stick the picture in paper and write an article on how he's been vandalising the park etc.

I agree there is a lot of badly behaved youths in society, due to a reason or several but there are also many youngsters who do stay in line, but because they choose to follow a trend of clothing get stereotyped against.

by **davo_LFC** » Sun Aug 27, 2006 3:31 pm

the only time i wear me hood is when it rains

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