Liverpool FC Forum

by **stmichael** » Mon Mar 06, 2006 1:45 pm

stu_the_red wrote:The only failings being from the midfield not performing as they were earlier in the season.

I've been saying this for a while. I know we created some chances on Saturday but we're not creating enough and we're not exerting enough pressure. Most of the chances we created came from balls from deep into an organised defence. Whilst we should score those, they're harder to score from.

We also rarely get our midfielders running past the strikers at the moment. Gerrard was frequently doing it earlier in the season but for whatever reason (fatigure, instructions?) he's not doing it as much now.

Teams know when they come to Anfield they can man mark the strikers and they'll have little else to worry about it. They know we'll create chances but that they'll be defendable. Whilst Myhre made some good saves, they were the kind of saves you'd expect a Premiership keeper to make.

Too often Charlton kept us comfortably outside their box. Our attempts to get wide ended in nothing or at best earnt us a corner. We need to find some movement from somewhere to turn out excellent control of games into real pressure for the opposition.

by **Lando_Griffin** » Mon Mar 06, 2006 3:47 pm

Well I can't honestly see why people are writing Fowler off. As far as I can see, the lad has had 4 chances in his entire time here, and has scored 2.

The comment Stu made about the finish "wasn't the best" vs Charlton - I just don't get that.
Fowler made his name nut-megging the 'keeper. It has always been his trademark finish.

I seriously believe we need an Aimar-type player in midfield, who will sit just behind the strikers and pick the cutting-edge passes an awesome finisher like Robbie needs. That way, we can use the wings AND the central attack, and make life a bit more difficult for opposition defenders.

Could Garcia play that role? Yes he could. IMHO it is the role best-suited to his game.
Will Garcia play that role? I somehow doubt it.

The formation which would inevitably get us firing again, IMO, is:

Reina
Finnan JC Sami Riise
Alonso
Gerrard Kewell
Garcia
Crouch Fowler.

If that team doesn't score goals, then f*ck knows what's wrong. There are 8 match-winners in that team, including Sami and Riise.

I'd love to see this system employed on Wednesday. Rather that than Hamann sitting alongside Alonso.
It's not like we can hold out for a draw.

by **7_Kewell** » Mon Mar 06, 2006 6:30 pm

AlanHansen wrote:I'm made up for the guy but I haven't seen anything yet that would convince me that he can play a part next season, harsh maybe but fair.

Which brings up the debate about what part Fowler would (should Rafa keep him) play in our squad next season. Lets not forget, Fowler was sold because he was unhappy about being a bit part under the Houllier regime. I know he didn’t ask for a transfer, but he didn’t have to, it was obvious (at the time) that Fowler wasn’t happy to be a squad player. Hence, when offered a deal totalling 13 million, Houllier sold him and quite rightly so.

Now, he has returned and where do we go from here? Fowler is being paid 48k a week and 15 k of that is being paid by Leeds. Will he take a pay cut? Will he be satisfied being a squad player?

I publicly said I didn’t rate him before we signed him and my opinion hasn’t changed. Although it was nostalgic to see him return to Anfield in a Liverpool shirt, the novelty has worn off and, unless he improves, I don’t see any reason in keeping him.

by **Homebooby** » Mon Mar 06, 2006 7:47 pm

I think it says a lot when he looks the most goal hungry of all the strikers we have. The touch and instinct are clearly there and with decent service I don't think he'd have a lot of trouble knocking plenty in for us. U only need a couple of seconds to score and whenever he has had a sniff, the net has bulged. I can't say that about any of the other strikers.

With regards his fitness, I think that we are under-estimating how long it takes to whip someone into shape. The people you watch weekly are mostly finely tuned machines and robbie has a long way to go to get there. Even when he does, he won't have the pace required at the top level, but he was never the fastest. The thing that I like the most about the way we are playing is that we seem to have a few players now who are attacking the ball again and he is one of them. It is a noticeable difference.

I really still hope for him as much as for us that he does himself justice. I hope that he gets given more than a couple of months. I think that was Rafas way of really seeing what he had left in him. Judging by his comments, we could keep him on a rolling 6 month contract and I think he would stay.

If he does get the chance and is still around in 6 months and hasn't lost the weight, then I will hold my hands up and call it for what it is. Here's hoping.

by **The Specialist** » Mon Mar 06, 2006 7:54 pm

puroresu wrote:Personally I thought he wasnt that good on Saturday. His 1st touch was poor and he gave the ball away far too often.

I agree. Obviously, Robbie Fowler being who he is and taking account the past he has had with the club...makes it hard for people to objectively comment on him. Fair enough. I don't blame people for it, but that's something that is clear. If Garcia had given the ball away as many times as Fowler did on Saturday, people would have blasted him for it and made an issue of it. It doesn't even get a mention by the threadmaker when commenting on the match, only praise.
The fact that Lando actually believes Fowler meant to nutmeg the goalkeeper, also shows you how some people can't say a bad word about the man. It was a quick and lucky finish, with not much thought on placement. Just what I believe, though. Not to say that it's a bad thing, just pointing out what it was. Getting a shot off quickly in the box without thinking too much is a skill that neither Morientes or Crouch have, and something that leads to goals once in a while rather than defenders blocking your shots. Btw, I'm not anti-folwer or think he's a bad signing or anything. Just saying that I find some of you to totally ignore or not admit any faults with him. And against Charlton, the amount of times he gave the ball away came more to my attention than Cisse failing to spot a pass.

Btw, 7_Kewell - last I remember reading Fowler was on something like 25k a week. With Liverpool only paying 13k. Maybe less. Perhaps I am wrong...

by **kazza** » Mon Mar 06, 2006 8:24 pm

When I first heard that Fowler was coming back, I did not subscribe to this "God" business and I felt he would not make an impact as I remembered him just before he left and I thought that he did not have the hunger then, let alone now.

Since then he has actually impressed me. Although he has not scored yet (and I thought he was unlucky not to get one on Saturday) I feel he is hungry and he is putting the team first, something he did not do before he left. His movement and link up play tells me that he deserves an extention, and I think as he gets fitter he will make an excellent addition to the squad. He definetly looks the most likely striker to score. I would like to have seen how he would have played with Pongolle.

by **drummerphil** » Mon Mar 06, 2006 8:32 pm

Lando_Griffin wrote:Well I can't honestly see why people are writing Fowler off. As far as I can see, the lad has had 4 chances in his entire time here, and has scored 2.

The comment Stu made about the finish "wasn't the best" vs Charlton - I just don't get that.
Fowler made his name nut-megging the 'keeper. It has always been his trademark finish.

I seriously believe we need an Aimar-type player in midfield, who will sit just behind the strikers and pick the cutting-edge passes an awesome finisher like Robbie needs. That way, we can use the wings AND the central attack, and make life a bit more difficult for opposition defenders.

Could Garcia play that role? Yes he could. IMHO it is the role best-suited to his game.
Will Garcia play that role? I somehow doubt it.

The formation which would inevitably get us firing again, IMO, is:

Reina
Finnan JC Sami Riise
Alonso
Gerrard Kewell
Garcia
Crouch Fowler.

If that team doesn't score goals, then f*ck knows what's wrong. There are 8 match-winners in that team, including Sami and Riise.

I'd love to see this system employed on Wednesday. Rather that than Hamann sitting alongside Alonso.
It's not like we can hold out for a draw.

Absolutely spot on..........Fowler in his appearences back just isn't getting any service.There have been several times where play has broken down when i've been dying for someone to find him with the ball.We are not very creative with our possession and often seem to use the high ball as plan A to bring Nando and Crouch into play because they are suppose to be the best in the air.......A point which is totally useless as Crouch loses more in the air than he wins.....

I am happy with Fowler and what he has shown so far,never had any doubt about him.....

by **DZed** » Mon Mar 06, 2006 8:49 pm

I think Fowler is doing fine. He's only been back for around five games and has put the ball in the back of the net twice. Yea, they may not have counted but it shows he can still finish. He's obviously not as good as he was ten years ago but he's still quality. I honestly think we'll see the best of him in a few games time. I also think he and Cisse would be an effective strikeforce.

by **GunGod** » Mon Mar 06, 2006 9:06 pm

I think for Fowler (or all our strikers in that case) to score we need a Kaka type player (more than a Ronaldinho) whose forte and primary obession is to cut defence splitting through balls.

We don't score simply because there's not much 70-30 goal-scoring chances. What we do have is in abundance are 40-60 hopeful putts into the box. I say 40-60 because defenders always have an edge when it comes to dealing with passes/crosses like ours as they have a entire pitch to clear to whereas we need to direct our efforts at the small goalmouth. We are never going to get much return from those.

We don't have any Kaka type players. I honestly haven't been convinced by Alonso as a playmaker. People talk about great games he had for us i.e. against Juve etc but where's the consistency? It's really hard for us to score when our playmaker has a great game then 5 average games. People talk about his great 30 yards passes but balls like that which take so long to drop are never going to be great goal-scoring opportunities.

As for Gerrard, he's a great player but he favours charging into the box with the ball himself rather then having the acumen for a great through ball.

And we can't even score from set pieces. Crouch should undergo intensive training to correct his heading technique in order to make his height advantage count. For the Charlton match he beat the defender and had a great chance but headed it tamely to the goalkeeper. How many times have we seen that?

Our corners to goals ratio is also ridiculous given the amount of corners we win every game. Gerrard is, TBH, not a good corner taker period. Kewell is worse while Alonso is the best amongst them but not quite enough.

As for Fowler, he still isn't sharp enough as Charlton's game was his first 90 minutes since last May. He should be able to get some goals and assists when he sheds some pounds. His movement is still goal. I remember him spinning around a defender and getting in front of him during the Charlton match for a corner/cross.

by **ivor_the_injun** » Mon Mar 06, 2006 9:50 pm

Currently, Fowler is our most dangerous attacker, and deserves to start against Benfica on merit.

He's done all he can for me so far, apart from score. He's making the opposing keeper work, something none of our strikers have done consistently since Christmas, he's putting himself in dangerous areas, and goals are sure to follow. He was unbelievably unlucky to have his goal disallowed on Saturday, but it does set it up nicely for him to get off the mark in the big match on Wednesday.

If would definitely help him if we started pushing the defence and midfield up 5-10 yards - he's having to come back for the ball far too much, and it's taking his impact away. His touch and movement are on another planet to anything we've had up front in the last couple of years though - sheer quality.

People will moan and point the finger if he's not scoring, and I'm sure that's exactly how he wants it. I still reckon he'll have 8-10 goals to his name for us in all competitions before the season's out.

by **tel** » Tue Mar 07, 2006 10:11 am

bigmick wrote:I think those of us who hoped Fowler would be the answer were probably being a touch optimistic. Clearly he isn't the physical specimen we remember, though he retains his beautiful touch and awareness. That said, I don't think it's all over for Robbie at Liverpool by any means. A top club needs four strikers who can come in and do the business. IMHO we currently posess two, in Crouch and Fowler.
What we really lack is an out and out number one, a Thierry Henri/Samuel Eto/Ruud van Nistelroy who the attack can be formed around. My own feeling is that Crouch should be the other part of our first choice pairing, with Fowler being the second part of our second choice pairing.
If for instance Samuel Eto (I know that's not how you spell his name but never mind) got tired of the racial abuse in Spain, and Diego Forlan felt he'd like to have another try in the Prem then Crouch and Fowler might look like two good second and fourth choice strikers.That is to say, Eto/Crouch and Forlan/Fowler being the two pairings.

On a seperate note, I felt our front two were much better on Saturday without Morientes getting in the way. Crouch should definately have scored with the header from Cisse's cross, Myrre was superhuman in goal and Fowlers goal was incorrectly ruled out. The game should have finished 3 or 4 nil. At least we looked like scoring and as Stu pointed out earlier Fowler was open in the box on a number of occasions and with a little more vision from the crosser, would have been in again.
Lastly and somewhat controversially, I thought Cisse did quite well wide right aswell. Further to that and considering our lack of goals right now, on the occasions that he drifted in to a central position he surely looked dangerous enough to be considered for a central striking role at some point. On a different day he might have scored twice and offered more in one game than some of our regularly selected strikers offer in ten.

Absouletely spot on. Unfortunately when I was arguing this some weeks back when we were on our winning streak I got slated.

We will win everything in sight at home and in Europe only when we have a Schevchenko/Eto/Van Nistelrooy/Henry leading our line. Not necessarily those players, but a striker that has that kind of impact on a game and finishing ability.

No matter how much money Chelsea want to spend, they wont match us with the way we play and that kind of player finishing off the chances

by **tel** » Tue Mar 07, 2006 10:17 am

stu_the_red wrote:I haven't dragged an old one up as they are to messy. Simple as that, so i'm starting another one.

Firstly i'd just like to say i'm made up with him. I said many time the lad still had plenty to offer and is still a good player and so far i think he's showing it.

The only failings being from the midfield not performing as they were earlier in the season.

We aren't playing as high up the pitch in the opponents half and we aren't playing at the same pace. We're often crossing balls into a crowded box with four six foot plus defenders in there... we need to attack with more pace on the counter attack, if we attack with more pace and turn defenders and can get the ball into the box with less defenders in there, Fowler will shed loads.

Fowler would benefit from having a player like Pennant in there. A pacey and quality outlet who can beat a man and deliver a quality cross on the counter attack. Someone who can spot a pass aswell as a cross and someone who can get right to the byline.

Fowler though so far as an individual has shown skill, vision, hunger and improved fitness levels.

Some of his touches, link up play and ideas are top quality. His movement is still second to none... the way he finds space and simply "hides" from a defenders line of sight only to pop up infront of them is still there...

There was an occassion on saturday when Sissy had the ball on the corner of the 18 yard box, the three defenders were running towards there six yard line, Fowler and Crouch were running to the six yard line then Fowler stops and backs up to the penalty spot, had Sissy had the ability to look up and pick a 5 yard pass, Fowler would have had time to take a touch then shoot from 12 yards out with no pressure... It angered me to see that a 14million pound player didn't see that chance.

His goal aswell shown his ability for me, yes the finish wasn't the best, the goalkeeper could have done better, but the space he found, staying onside and the touch was excellent.

I genuinely believe he's still got 20 goals a season in him given the right service, the goals will come for Robbie.

Fowler has definetely shown something, and was unlucky not to score on the weekend. And if Cisse's cross in the 2nd half fell to him instead of Crouch.....he'd have nailed it

He is the one player in the team that can score a goal in a game of few chances. Having said that, he's not been brought into the team to score 20 goals a season. He's there to do a specific job. And he will do it standing on his head

As much as we love to slate Cisse, he had a decent game for us. Unlucky not to score, and created the best chance of the game

by **redmikey** » Tue Mar 07, 2006 4:02 pm

i disagree with anyone who said fowler had a poor game against charlton, he is working his nuts off to try and fit into system that isn't his natral game i.e finishing chances in the box.

gerrard has the ablilty to play in the passes fowler needs to score and he looks fit enough to finish them given a chance, but we two strikers working as a unit. for all the love in the world fowler will never be chasing flick ons beating the last defender or skining defenders to make room for chances

what we need is for fowler and cissie to have a brain transplant, what a player that would be!

sorry just dreaming, fowler could do with playing up with nando imo as he does have the class tp play fowler in( i know he hasn't shown it to many times but it doesn't go away over night, and them two seemed to have abit of an understanding which we will need for the rest of the season.

i would start fowler and nando, and swap both for cissie and crouch if needs be

by **76-1141598028** » Tue Mar 07, 2006 4:41 pm

Ayup fellas, just thought I’d drop in with me own take on the Fowler situation, see when he played for us at sitta he never really got a game, it was like…it was like he was always on the bench or not playin, when he did get picked you could like see that he was still dead skillfull with the ball. Now that you have got him back and getting him fit I reckon he will be fantastic again. Anyway good luck for the match, mad for it.

by **redmikey** » Tue Mar 07, 2006 4:44 pm

feck off manc!! oh and cheers

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