Liverpool FC Forum

by **DAV** » Tue May 04, 2004 6:58 pm

I was looking at houliers history and players he has bort and sold, and this is my conclusion.
Houlier has done many signings some good some bad like most managers.
Out of all the players who have gone i have picked out a few players who i feel have contributed to houliers down fall.

Anelka- the guy scores goals at all levels, probabley one of the most natural strikers in the premiership. He may have his off the problems but i still believe we should of signed him. Just look at his scoring record this season at man city.
(Archibald when at Spurs didnt speak to manager Keith Burkinshaw for 2 years, he still played in most of their games and was 1 of their best players in years)

Fowler- Had is injury problems, was more popular than houlier, i still think this was a terrible mistake getting rid of him. He would of laid down and died for Liverpool. Unlike alot of todays players.

Mcmanaman- Why did we let himgo on a free, (hope we dont do the same with Owen.

Babbel- I thought he had quality, when he came back from injury, houlier and him fell out and we ship him out on loan for the season. Houlier may have had his personal reasons for this, but that should not cloud his judgement.
(a bit like danny mills at leeds)

Ziege- I was happy when we signed him, 13 games and he was on his way. Many of our current team have had alot more than 13 bad games this season, (Heskey)

Litmanen- Quality player, again i was happy houlier signed him. Shame houlier didnt use this talent more. (no wonder he left)

Westerveld- Good keeper, a few bad games and houlier through him out of the club. I feel he was unfairly treated.

Henchoz- great player, houlier dosent seem to like him, i wonder how long it will be before he gets thrown out of the club

Mcalister- carnt fault houlier on this one. Pure talent. probabley one of his best bits of business since taking charge. Reminded of jan molby a little.

by **115-1073096938** » Tue May 04, 2004 7:28 pm

A sensible post by you for once. I like it. Should make it a habbit.

I don't agree with alot of your suggestions though.

Anelka- the guy scores goals at all levels, probabley one of the most natural strikers in the premiership. He may have his off the problems but i still believe we should of signed him. Just look at his scoring record this season at man city.

I sort of agree but i can't blame Houllier for not signing him. Lets face it, he's known as an arrogant trouble making pr##k that can and will upset dressing room harmony. It can cause a divide in the dressing room which is extremely unhealthy. He is a class act though, we all know that and he would have been superb for us, but as i say... signing him would have been a risk and one i do not blame Houllier at all for not taking.

Fowler- Had is injury problems, was more popular than houlier, i still think this was a terrible mistake getting rid of him. He would of laid down and died for Liverpool. Unlike alot of todays players.

He didn't have a choice. At the time Robbie was not gonna get in the side ahead of Emile or Michael and it was unfair to ask a player like him to sit on the bench. He also didn't fit into our style of play. Yes he was a class act but we didn't have the players to get the best out of him. Also looking at the way he's played this year i am thinking that 12m wasn't such a bad peice of business. Robbie will always have a place in our hearts, but again, another decision i feel Houllier got right.

Mcmanaman- Why did we let himgo on a free, (hope we dont do the same with Owen.

Clearly wasn't Houllier's fault, we knew this was happening before Gerard took charge. Nothing he could do. McManaman was as good as useless in his last 2 seasons anyways.

Babbel- I thought he had quality, when he came back from injury, houlier and him fell out and we ship him out on loan for the season. Houlier may have had his personal reasons for this, but that should not cloud his judgement.

At the end of the day his discipline in the reserves was a disgrace and he reacted badly to being taken off when he played poorly. no-one here knows weather he's still the same player, i don't think he would be now. He was excellent in the treble season and i think he's past his best and to old to rediscover that form.

Ziege- I was happy when we signed him, 13 games and he was on his way. Many of our current team have had alot more than 13 bad games this season, (Heskey)

He had class but didn't fit the system. I think he'd have been a class player had he been given a real chance at left back. Unfortunately it wasn't to be. I don't think this signing had any influence whatsoever either way.

Litmanen- Quality player, again i was happy houlier signed him. Shame houlier didnt use this talent more. (no wonder he left)

Class act. Could never understand this one myself. For me he wasn't ever a first teamer but he had immense vision, decisions on the ball, movement and passing. He could split any defence open. He should have been kept on imo and should have also been used more. This is one case where i feel Houllier wanted to prove a point to the player and he got it miserabley wrong. Litmanen should have kept his gob shut, but he should have been the first to come on if the game wasn't going our way.

This imo was a mistake.

Westerveld- Good keeper, a few bad games and houlier through him out of the club. I feel he was unfairly treated.

Totally disagree. He had at least 9 or 10 bad games. He was good though. He wasn't however as good as either of the two we have now. For me selling westerveld was a good decision.

Henchoz- great player, houlier dosent seem to like him, i wonder how long it will be before he gets thrown out of the club

I don't think thats neccersseraly true.

by **stmichael** » Tue May 04, 2004 8:42 pm

litmanen is the sale that still baffles me. he was the missing link between the midfield and the attack. for example watch his pass through to heskey against man city in the 4-2 fa cup win in the treble season. the guy was different class. almost like bergkamp.

in my opinion, houllier also sold the wrong czech. berger still has immense quality although i have to admit that he was also quite injury prone towards the latter stages of his liverpool career.

anelka would have been a huge risk despite his obvious qualities. fowler was a good piece of business. babbel was just an unfortunate situation.

by **115-1073096938** » Tue May 04, 2004 8:50 pm

Losing Babbel was hard.

He was brilliant and a top class player. That set us back at least a season imo.

StMichael i feel you are being hard on Vladi who imo hasn't done badly at all this season. He's nothing like as bad as people make out and has ability. Berger for me was dead wood. I personally feel he made the right decision.

by **stmichael** » Tue May 04, 2004 8:58 pm

fair enough that's your opinion. but at the end of the day, smicer has also been injury prone this season and isn't getting any younger. he is also a very frustrating player to watch because for all his good technical ability, he is too lightweight and loses possession too easily.

by **BOODIDDY** » Tue May 04, 2004 10:57 pm

Anelka would have been a risk? Wasn't Diouf a risk that went wrong? Anelka is class, diouf is not and he upsets dressing rooms aswell! Fowler, good business, Macca wanted to go abroad season before with barca. Litmanen was passed it. Babbel baffles me. westerveld cant understand that, couple of mistakes and gone, Dudek still there and still making gaffes. Did you see the camera save on sunday? What a knob!

The club is a mess and these threads are being heard by those that matter. We are becoming forest 15 years on, at least Leeds konw what they have to do. Our board hasnt a f##king clue

by **adayinthelife** » Tue May 04, 2004 11:36 pm

Our transfer dealings have been hit and miss at best since houllier has been at the club.
There have been 3 players who should never have been let go IMO.They are Fowler who should never have been left out in place of heskey and ok we got a decent price for him and he has struggled since leaving but the guy has undoubted class and had our great club at heart.I just dont think his heart has been in it since he left and just think how much we could have done with him the last 2 seasons instead of perservering with heskey.
Litmanen was a huge loss but then again he never really got more than 3 or 4 games in a row and his talent was sorely wasted by houllier.It seems to be houllier doesnt want creativity unless it is complimented by high work rate and defensive work but yet smicer manages to get in the team whenever he is fit and yet produces little time and time again.
The other player has not been mentioned by anybody but I feel he could be doing a great job for us now if he was still with us.Thompson who looked like a great prospect but was shown the door without ever really getting a chance.He could play in the centre or on the right side of midfield and I think was a huge mistake selling him.
In houlliers defence he has bought some good players but has consistently failed to get the best out of them.

by **115-1073096938** » Wed May 05, 2004 6:17 pm

David Thompson wanted to leave.

He should have stayed and would have been a good player for us but the fact is he wanted to go. A written transfer request.

Bye bye.

Fowler did have his footballing heart broken, but the fact is at the time Heskey was by far the better player for the system so Houllier made the right choice.

Again Fowler wanted to leave due to not being good enough to play in the system which served us brilliantly.

You don't keep players that want to go.

by **adayinthelife** » Wed May 05, 2004 6:26 pm

But stu you are missing the point Fowler and Thompson only wanted to leave cuz houllier was not playing them and also they did not want to play in a team so sterile and defensive.

by **115-1073096938** » Wed May 05, 2004 11:25 pm

He clearly was playing tho, 27 league appearances... doesn't lie really does it. He was only 20 aswell and was hardly the best player there. He is no Steven Gerrard so at 20/21 he can't expect to play 90 minutes every week.

Also on the point of Fowler, he's past it now. He didn't suit the system and if he didn't want to stay and play then he should f##k off. I loved Robbie for the memories and great goals, he's one of my favourate ever players but the team suffered when he played. Leeds suffered when he played. He's not got an alround game. His game was about goals and the flashes of brilliance. We never had a midfield which could get the best out of him once McManaman left. Fowler is better upfront on his own, not with a strike partner. We had Owen, if it had to be one which it did, Houllier chose the right one.

by **jonnymac1979** » Wed May 05, 2004 11:29 pm

When I think about mistakes Houllier has made, I think selling Litmanen has to be his worst. Nothing compares to it, not even Ferri.....Biscan.....Nothing.

by **glenbuck patriot** » Wed May 05, 2004 11:36 pm

stu_the_red wrote:Also on the point of Fowler, he's past it now. He didn't suit the system and if he didn't want to stay and play then he should f##k off.

Fowler is better upfront on his own, not with a strike partner.

Stu, the point IS he did want to play that's why he got disgruntled, wouldn't you watching somone who's got your job with 5% of your ability at scoring goals (Let's not forget that was Robbie's game).... and before you retort with How many as he scored this season... the answers 10.. same as GH's Love Child.... in what is a lot poorer team.

As for your second comment Fowler played better on his own, Don't you think that suit's GH's sterile tactics this season... One up front even at home?

by **Scottbot** » Wed May 05, 2004 11:56 pm

I remember the press had been going on about Robbie leaving for months before it actually happened and i was absolutely gutted to see him go. However, in hidsight, i thought 12mill was a great price considering the form and injuries we have seen from him since leaving. I think le boss felt a little threatened by Fowler's immense popularity with the fans + Heskey was doing great for us at the time. I can understand why he sold him.

I liked Litmanen and always wondered why Houllier bought him and then played him so little. If he didn't fit into our system of play then why buy him? GH generally goes for players with a lot of athletic ability and i guess Litmanen didn't really fit the bill - but then neither does Smicer who is still a strong Houliier fave.

For me the biggest mistake is without a doubt, letting Anelka go. I was absolutely dumbstruck but back then i generally trusted to Houlliers judgement because it felt like we were going places (remember that feeling?). I don't believe there was one particular incident that forced GH to pull out of the Anelka deal. I gather he did not like the way Anelka's brothers looked after his affairs and had doubts about Anelka's future conduct. Anelka seemed to remain pretty tight lipped about the whole affair. I can't recall him taking many snipes at Houllier after the deal fell through which is perhaps something we could have expected given his bad boy, stroppy image. So instead of Anelka we get Diouff. Do you think Houllier would change it if he could go back? too bloody right he would! Unlikely to happen but i would rather we went back in for Anelka than bring in Cisses this summer.

by **jedwards** » Wed May 05, 2004 11:57 pm

Any manager who can not accommodate a player like Litmanan in his team is a useless manager, and keep Smicer in his team is must be mad, It's just shows you how GH has wasted so many talented player from LFC, where by right he should not be given any chance to go on managing our club!!!!!
He's useless and should be sacked, ortherwise, he will destroy the club again. :angry:

by **115-1073096938** » Thu May 06, 2004 11:30 am

Stu, the point IS he did want to play that's why he got disgruntled, wouldn't you watching somone who's got your job with 5% of your ability at scoring goals (Let's not forget that was Robbie's game).... and before you retort with How many as he scored this season... the answers 10.. same as GH's Love Child.... in what is a lot poorer team.

As for your second comment Fowler played better on his own, Don't you think that suit's GH's sterile tactics this season... One up front even at home?

The fact of the matter is in the treble season Liverpool lost two games at home. They were the only two games at anfield Fowler and Owen started together that season. Heskey suited the system better and although he wasn't the better goalscorer at the time and he had less ability he was still a class act and was offering the team so much more than Robbie could have done at the time. Hindsight is a wonderfull thing, we all knew Heskey would start his decline when Fowler left didn't we??? what cr#p some of you talk.

As for my second comment, Fowler upfront on his own in a team that puts very few crosses into the box, doesn't have natural dribblers and doesn't player a quick counter attacking game where players surround the sole striker. He'd fail miserabley.

Owen is twice the player and it was one or the other. We kept the right one.

Any manager who can not accommodate a player like Litmanan in his team is a useless manager, and keep Smicer in his team is must be mad, It's just shows you how GH has wasted so many talented player from LFC, where by right he should not be given any chance to go on managing our club!!!!!
He's useless and should be sacked, ortherwise, he will destroy the club again.

Idiot!!!

I don't believe there was one particular incident that forced GH to pull out of the Anelka deal. I gather he did not like the way Anelka's brothers looked after his affairs and had doubts about Anelka's future conduct. Anelka seemed to remain pretty tight lipped about the whole affair. I can't recall him taking many snipes at Houllier after the deal fell through which is perhaps something we could have expected given his bad boy, stroppy image.

He assaulted a bus driver in Liverpool town centre, the bus driver didn't press charges as he was a Liverpool fan. He also wanted rediculous wages and Houllier wanted him to get different agents and he was reluctant to drop his brothers.

Secondly Anelka was making sly comments such as "Houllier used me" and "he shown me a lack of respect". If he'd shown him a lack of respect he wouldn't have brought him in in the first place. He had an attitude and there i do not blame Houllier for not taking the chance at all. I wouldn't take a chance on such a player as it seriously effects the dressing room.

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