Liverpool FC Forum

by **dawson99** » Fri Jul 08, 2005 6:01 pm

fight terrorism with terrorism? not the answer at all. we need to get to the source and then educate. thats the best way. right now tho i think killing anyone who has anything to do with this as the only option

id cards wont work. its like gun permite. the only people with permits are the people who wouldnt use the guns in the first place.

intelligence is the key. we need to know what we are dealing with

by **84-1106852058** » Fri Jul 08, 2005 6:15 pm

dawson99 wrote:we need to know what we are dealing with

The whole world knows what were dealing with.Lunatic fanatics.These people will stop at nothing.All they want to do is become a martyr.They will never be happy until Islam has taken over the world.

by **dawson99** » Fri Jul 08, 2005 6:18 pm

no but we need to know on a deeper level. we need to get into the midns of these people. i dunno what cause i had where id sacrifice my life was anything. why not chuck the bomb and run, at least give yourself a chance.

and why doesnt osama do this? tell them that if osama was so much into suicide killings, why is he hiding in the forests or caves like an animal?

basically these fools need educating. or left ina room with me, either way they'll get sorted out

by **ArthuR** » Fri Jul 08, 2005 7:15 pm

I have but one question for all the people from london: what are the comments to the muslem arabs on the Londonian streets? are they the same?

by **76-1115222408** » Fri Jul 08, 2005 7:28 pm

OK i am finally back home....what a long day!!

First just want to say, the replies i got to my post were as EXPECTED, but its good as it did start some good debating on other issues in relation to this atrocity...Israel/Saddam etc;

PLEASE REMEMBER - My post is my own view (and is of course NOT FACT{well not yet anyway

}) based on what information has been available to us at this time, but it is funny how so many people are saying it is the Terrorists, I mean that is as fair a point as mine, because there is no evidence (at this time) to suggest thatb this is actually the case.
So in my eyes the Governments propaganda is well and truly working, because everyone is saying Arabs/terrorists/muslim extremists...as i said where is the EVIDENCE for this?

Right I want to qoute so many of you, but it will be hard as so many on different pages so i will go through your points and say what i have to say in relation to them:

PEEWEE
You have a point about the Madrid bombing (i knew someone would mention this as a point, and it happened in the first reply :oops:

).
The thing is though that this killed MANY people, and at the time I DID beleive it was a terrorist attack because of the numbers killed/maimed.
But when was the last time you heard about the case??? I have done a bit of research and nearly 15months to the day of those attacks only ONE person has been sent to jail, and HE IS SPANISH and he is 16 FFS. He is the only one in jail (in my opinion) because he was the scapegoat used as he was too young to actually be able to question what was going on, I mean FFS he was paid in part for his services with Moroccan Hashish, which says it all really, very naive. For those that dont know his role in the attacks, it was to ferry explosives around etc; in a rucksack and obviously as he was so young, was not exactly the A1 suspect that people would be lookng out for is he??!!!
He wasnt actually involved in the attack itself (you know what i mean when i say that..ie; he didnt set the bombs down or pull the trigger etc;) and this therefore means that NOBODY has been charged.
I found the following on the BBC news website:

'Of more than 70 people arrested in the course of the investigation, at least 22 remain in detention on provisional charges. They must be prosecuted within two years of the date of their arrest. Two suspects are in custody overseas.'

So they have arrested this many people but no charges Hmmmm, dont make sense to me to be honest!
But the majority of those to be arrested are MOROCCAN or of MOROCCAN decent, thing is though, they HATE MOROCANS in Spain (you can actually see Morocco from Spain, its that close) and there are many that make the short trip across the sea in hope of a better life.
So again, make the people fear for their lives and blame the people they hate - then it makes it easier to create harsher laws for immigrants (Moroccans in this case).

However everyone in the world still knows this attack as having been done by terrorists, so when it happens here (also on the train/tube network a la Madrid), then it is easy for people to link the two and come to an EASY conclusion, and this is the reason I think the powers that be attacked the tubes/buses, as it had 'supposedly' been done before and so there is a precedent for this type of attack by terrorists.

WOOF WOOF
Cant remeber if you posted a smilie (i think you did) and therefore may have been being jestful.
If not however, i know in your mind you know i have not been 'dumbed-down' because my post doesnt exactly look as if written by someone stupid/dumb does it?? Or does it?? :lookaround

The Governemnt would find it hard to dumb me down anyway as I dont really watch the idiot box and hardly EVER go to the cinema, unless they are showing FACTUAL programs (i hear you say 'you got a nerve saying that seen as you are not using facts' which is fair enough, but i am just making the point that the techniques they use would go over my head as i dont watch the vehicles of their propaganda.
Also like to watch wildlife programs and the discovery channel apart from that, not much else.

Honululu_Bob
I think you said my post was the worst you have EVER seen on ANY forum, you are entitled to that opinion and will not try to change it for you, but what i would say is that this may because many people may be afraid of making such statements on a forum for fear of the backlash/being ridiculed/or being labelled unpatriotic.
I dont have these fears, and stand by what i beleive (at all times) whether it be a footballing point or a political one.

Hawkmoon269
You said London came to a STANDSTILL, let me tell you IT DID NOT, only the affetced areas were gridlocked and the M25(nothing new there then), but everywhere else was just as per the norm.
To be honest, although i have my own idea on what happened, i am FULLY aware that 98% of people dont have these views, I was so surprised in work yesterday by the customers just doing their thing and basically not batting an eyelid, i was expecting a lot more uproar, but it was like nothing had happened. It was amazing. The store (sainsburys) was packed as ever, people just did not listen to the authorities saying stay at home.

You also said that the media has had it on 24/7 since it happened. There are a few reasons for this:

*First (obvious) there was an atrocity like never seen before on these shores, so of course it will be BIG news.

*All the coverage, helps to block out other news...ie; cant remember her name but do you guys remember the female MP who had sent an email saying (paraphrasing here btw!) 'today would be a good day to bury bad news' on the day of 9/11 attacks. Now this is the kind of thing the powers that be do, distract people from the real issue, as said in my original post, the spotlight is definetly off the G8 summit now.

*The more they stay with the news story the more emblazoned in your head the message becomes..Watch the news for half an hour straight and just count how many times they say the words - Terrorism, Al-Qaida, Muslims, Arabs..but with what EVIDENCE??...The more you hear it the more you become accustomed to it and take it as a 'natural' thing almost second nature that this was muslim terrorists of arab descent linked to Al-Qaida.
It works along the lines of (dont know if you all know this one) if you say to somebody 'TOAST TOAST TOAST TOAST
TOAST TOAST TOAST TOAST TOAST TOAST TOAST TOAST TOAST TOAST TOAST'...then say ' what do you put in the toaster.........the likely answer will be TOAST, when we all know it is BREAD. The more you hear it, the more you think it.
Dont get me wrong, not all people will say TOAST as the answer and those that dont show that they are harder to manipulate.
However Hawkmoon, it is nice to see that you DONT DISAGREE with all the points I have made (only one so far..LOL), it shows to me that you DO understand that Governments (for centuries!) do do corrupt things and the world of plitics can get very murky....the guy who was shot (sorry committed suicide...yea whatever!) over the war to iraq, he was taken out so as he could not tell the TRUTH, is just another example.

FOWLER_E7
FOWLER_E7 i agree with a lot, no actually MOST of what you say, but you said that most of the 9/11 terrorists were from Saudi Arabia....How do you know this?? Through the media i assume!!
Well it is FACT that three quarters of the suspected terrorists named in the 9/11 aftermath have since been found alive and well in a number of countries around the world. Hmmmmmm, so who are the REAL ones then, I HAVE NEVER heard of any other suspects being mentioned as replacement suspects for those that were wrongly identified as being involved.

Pablo_Escobar
You said something to the effect of 'So did the US know about the 9/11 attacks'.
The only thing I will say on this (as 9/11 is a different subject) is that if America were doing their job properly in response to those devastating attacks, then WHY THE HELL did they allow about 20ish members of the BIN LADEN family to fly OUT of the country when there was a complete airspace shutdown?? it is not as if they hadnt already accused him of blowing up a US naval ship and also bombs in Kenya, but of course they knew who he was, WHY?, because he used to be a CIA operative in the Russia/Afghanistan war!! Hmmmm, bit suspect me thinks!!!

LFC#1
You say that corruption is the reason that people such as Saddam are in power.
Well Saddam used to be a lacky for the USA before he decided to teach the kurds (his thought process, not mine) a lesson by poisoning them all. This made the US angry because this made it clear to the rest of the world that America had been giving them weapons, both standard and chemical.

Saddam was liked by the US because of his LOVE FOR THE WEST...he loved all thins from the WEST, TV, Clothes and even the way of life. They also rallied behind him in the IRAQ/IRAN war, by supplying weapons to defeat the 'Muslim die-hard state' and when he done this was seen as 'one of the boys' as we say over here.
He was never a muslim die hard, and this is why many people in the middle east do not like him, as he was seen as a 'sell-out'.
When he further took the p.iss by raiding Kuwait, America had had enough and acted on it. From there on in the relationship broke down.

So Saddam was KEPT in power by the United States as it was in THEIR interests to do so.
FOWLER_E7 also touched upon this point too!!!

LEE J
EXCELLENT POST LEE. The points you made about the weapons, but the somehow incapability of the US to find Osama Bin Hiding, is just great irony, but made bad by the fact it is so TRUE.

OK that is it I think......For now!!!!!

by **76-1115222408** » Fri Jul 08, 2005 7:33 pm

ArthuR wrote:I have but one question for all the people from london: what are the comments to the muslem arabs on the Londonian streets? are they the same?

So far nothing mate, apart from one report of a nutter going into a Cafe in Edgware Road and mouthing off a bit. Edgware Road is heavily populated by persons of Arab descent for those that dont know.

But all is calm, as i said in my last post, it is as if nothing has happened to be honest.

by **Fowler_E7** » Fri Jul 08, 2005 7:58 pm

LIVERPOOLANYTIME wrote:
ArthuR wrote:I have but one question for all the people from london: what are the comments to the muslem arabs on the Londonian streets? are they the same?

So far nothing mate, apart from one report of a nutter going into a Cafe in Edgware Road and mouthing off a bit. Edgware Road is heavily populated by persons of Arab descent for those that dont know.

But all is calm, as i said in my last post, it is as if nothing has happened to be honest.

i very much doubt you will see very much racial hatred in London, as the city has been a multi cultural for society for many years now.

by **neilE** » Fri Jul 08, 2005 8:25 pm

Liverpool anytime - I dont think you're stupid - and so you'll understand the point that if you're paranoid, you can always think of a way to reinforce your belief. As for how you came to your conclusion, most of your information has probably come from the media in some from or another, so you are just as likely to be wrong as the rest of us. For me I have no problem believing in the cynicism of governments and the media's love of manipulating the public - but it's a huge leap from there to think that the Government would actually DO something like this. You do, clearly, but ask yourself WHY? Do you really think that identity cards are that important to them? And that they can't bring them in through normal methods?
Think carefully on this question - Is it possible that you're paranoid?

by **neilE** » Fri Jul 08, 2005 8:29 pm

And as a general point - the BLAME for this kind of horror is squarely with the people who did it. But Blair Bush and the rest have created a world where it is inevitable.

by **woof woof !** » Fri Jul 08, 2005 8:31 pm

LIVERPOOLANYTIME wrote:WOOF WOOF
Cant remeber if you posted a smilie (i think you did) and therefore may have been being jestful.
If not however, i know in your mind you know i have not been 'dumbed-down' because my post doesnt exactly look as if written by someone stupid/dumb does it?? Or does it??

In all fairness , you don't sound stupid or dumb , just very young and obviously enjoying the sound of your own voice irrespective of what uninformed utterances you make.
Perhaps that is the privilege of youth ,frankly i'm now to old to remember that self obsessed certainty without a wry smile .
I suggest you save this thread and read it again 20 years down the road . Be prepared to be embarrassed by your naivety .

by **76-1115222408** » Fri Jul 08, 2005 9:30 pm

neilE wrote:And as a general point - the BLAME for this kind of horror is squarely with the people who did it. But Blair Bush and the rest have created a world where it is inevitable.

NeilE as for the above qoute - WELL Who is to Blame, obviously the perpetrators are to blame, BUT who are these people we must blame. And as you say this situation has been created by Bush and Blair...Fair point, but WHY??? Think about that, dont you think they would have learnt from, Somalia, Kenya, 9/11, Bali, Istanbul, Madrid, and now London (all 'supposed terrorist attacks')...obviously not they continue to carry on in the same fashion and are now calling out North Korea, China and Iran.....My view is they WANT to come to blows with these people as they EXPECT to win (as usual not learning from previous mistakes such as Vietnam and the current Iraq war..which 'OFFICIALLY' ended how long ago now???
The thing is these three countries above wont take any :censored:

, TRUST ME!!!

As for your first post, I agree with a lot you say, as for being paranoid, not at all matey, its not as if I change my way of life etc; cause of what i beleive is happening, because i am realistic to know that there is not much i or anybody can really do to stop what is going on around us, apart from just BE AWARE of it..THATS ALL....So please dont think i am some mad guy, with crazy ideas sitting paranoid in a dark corner...BELEIVE YOU ME, it is the complete opposite!!! :cool:

by **76-1115222408** » Fri Jul 08, 2005 9:39 pm

woof woof ! wrote:
LIVERPOOLANYTIME wrote:WOOF WOOF
Cant remeber if you posted a smilie (i think you did) and therefore may have been being jestful.
If not however, i know in your mind you know i have not been 'dumbed-down' because my post doesnt exactly look as if written by someone stupid/dumb does it?? Or does it??

In all fairness , you don't sound stupid or dumb , just very young and obviously enjoying the sound of your own voice irrespective of what uninformed utterances you make.
Perhaps that is the privilege of youth ,frankly i'm now to old to remember that self obsessed certainty without a wry smile .
I suggest you save this thread and read it again 20 years down the road . Be prepared to be embarrassed by your naivety .

You make a fair point Woof Woof, but I'm sure you are not that old!!! :grinning:

I hear what you are saying about the twenty years thing and reading back the post.....BUT if you have ever seen the film '1984', that would have seemed very far fetched 21 years ago, but in todays society (the one the film tries to envisage) it is not that crazy is it!!!

So i stand by what i say to be honest, I will just wait for time to either prove me right or wrong...If i am wrong then i will hold my hands up, like the man that I am!!!
Until that day comes, and whilst the constant suspicious (IMO) behaviour from the powers that be continues, then i will have my THIRD EYE OPEN!!!!

by **84-1106852058** » Fri Jul 08, 2005 9:45 pm

To quote Liverpool Anytime

The thing is though that this killed MANY people, and at the time I DID beleive it was a terrorist attack because of the numbers killed/maimed.

So are you saying if more people had been killed you wouldnt have come up with your theory.I know explosive experts are good,but Ihave

yet to hear one who can predict how many casualties there will be,especially in such a confined space.

I know you like to debate,Ihave read a lot of your football posts and find them interesting,Iam still undecided if you are serious with this post or taking the p!ss

by **neilE** » Fri Jul 08, 2005 9:49 pm

I wholeheartedly agree with you that the world is a cynical place with governments who work things to whatever they want, and then spinwhat they've done to make it sound like we all get the benefit. But bombing your own people goes to far for me - they don't need to. Like you said the media is pretty much 1984, and by your own logic enough people will believe whatever they want them to - so why go to these extremes when the subtle stuff works so well for them?

by **76-1115222408** » Fri Jul 08, 2005 10:09 pm

RED BARON....I am not one for chatting s.hit just for the sake of it or to rile people....I mean this killed INNOCENT people and i would NEVER take the P.iss or make lighthearted banter on such a serious matter.

I hear what you are saying about the numbers, but in the last year or so i have done a lot of reading and research into this stuff, and thats what made me think of what i have.
As i say, I dont beleive that 4 bombs on londons underground and buses AT RUSH HOUR (very important that point there) would have only (as i said before 1 is too many, so i dont mean 'only' in the true sense of the word, but in relation to the point i am making) kill 49 people (at this time), unless they had some s.hit bombs.

Another thing and I JUST thought of this as i write this reply, that the Police are claiming that they DONT beleive it was suicide bombers, so how the hell did people get down the train lines without being seen??
Another point i just thought of is, IF looking to kill and maim, why would you bomb THE TOP of a double decker bus....think of it like this - IF you saw the pictures of the bus and its non existent roof after the blast, imagine how many would have died if it was DOWNSTAIRS, there would have been NO survivors as the blast would have ripped through the uper deck as well as demolishing the base, therfore leading to the bus to collapse on its self.......

Look the more i think about this situation the more things that i seem to find THAT JUST DONT MAKE SENSE (to me of course!) As can be seen from me thinking of two things just in the space of replying to you.

As you say RED i DO enjoy debating, and will always reply and or back-up (or at least try

) to back up what i am saying, but definetly not here saying these things for the sake of it. Just my own views and opinions.

As i say i just dont think that Terrorists would plan such an attack on one of the worlds major cities, without hitting major Landmarks AND trying to kill as many as possible, and for me these attacks just dont (for me) have the hallmarks that may be expected, especilally of so-called arb/mslim/mddle eastern terrorists. I mean suicide killers (a single one) kill just as many in a single blast at a cafe or nightclub when targetting Israel, but these would never would these have the same density of people that you would find on the Tube in London at RUSH HOUR.

Bloody hell, i was only gonna write a short reply

Well i suppose that shows i am being totally serious in what i am saying.

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